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BumRushDaShow

(129,687 posts)
Thu Mar 7, 2024, 12:25 PM Mar 7

Senate Filibuster Critics See New Hope After Sinema, Manchin Leave Office

Source: Huff Post

Mar 7, 2024, 05:45 AM EST


WASHINGTON ― Kyrsten Sinema (I-Ariz.) and Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) ― two of the most vocal defenders of the filibuster in the Senate ― won’t be around next year. Mitch McConnell, another staunch supporter of the filibuster, is leaving GOP leadership at the end of the year, and he may not be around the Capitol much longer either.

The rapidly changing makeup of the Senate, where much of the old guard is being replaced with newcomers who don’t see much sense in some of the chamber’s longstanding traditions, is giving hope to advocates of eliminating the 60-vote threshold to pass legislation. “This institution would be better off if the filibuster wasn’t used in the way it is today. ... It certainly feels like the momentum is heading towards a reform of the filibuster,” Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), who has been involved in both successful and not-so-successful bipartisan negotiations gun control and immigration reform, told HuffPost on Wednesday.

Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), a vocal critic of the filibuster, said it had been used recently by Republicans to prevent passage of legislation to protect abortion rights and voting rights. “The filibuster is a way to empower the minority,” Warren said. “People are sick of hearing that we’d like to make changes that are popular all across this country — changes in access to abortion, to gun safety, to support for access to abortion — but that somehow, the minority blocked us.” She added: “The filibuster needs to go.”

Ahead of the 2022 midterms, Democrats tried to change Senate rules to exempt legislation expanding access to voting and bolstering the 1965 Voting Rights Act from the filibuster. But Sinema and Manchin, then two of the most conservative Democrats in the chamber, joined every Republican in voting to oppose the rules change, handing their party a stinging defeat.

Read more: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/senate-filibuster-sinema-manchin_n_65e8cd3be4b0170871fcb95f

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Senate Filibuster Critics See New Hope After Sinema, Manchin Leave Office (Original Post) BumRushDaShow Mar 7 OP
True, except we have to keep both of those seats. AllyCat Mar 7 #1
Senate filibuster critics are nuts FBaggins Mar 7 #2
If Trump wins JustAnotherGen Mar 7 #4
"if Trump is elected [with] a red senate majority" speak easy Mar 7 #6
Why wouldn't they have the numbers? FBaggins Mar 7 #7
We don't know that. speak easy Mar 7 #8
Oh - I agree with that. FBaggins Mar 7 #9
Trump has said he will be a dictator the first day JustAnotherGen Mar 7 #11
It was always my opinion that Sneederbunk Mar 7 #3
I think we can hold the Arizona seat, but the West Virginia seat is probably going away. patphil Mar 7 #5
Recommended that everyone read a history of the filibuster. It's not what it used to be at all. keopeli Mar 7 #10
Hoping to see action on codifying abortion rights Marthe48 Mar 7 #12
To correct the article MurrayDelph Mar 7 #13

AllyCat

(16,239 posts)
1. True, except we have to keep both of those seats.
Thu Mar 7, 2024, 12:49 PM
Mar 7

Sinema's I think Gallegos has a great chance to win and hold. Manchin's will be filled by a GQPer. Despite the map we are facing, I do think the Senate will hold and largely on the issue of women's health and rights. If Dems embraced cannabis legalization and being the party of law and order as well as supporting US strength in the world through NATO and support for democracies around the world, we would be a shoe in.

We need to play dirty though. Not as dirty as them, but we cannot be civil to these GOP cretins. And within the law.

FBaggins

(26,775 posts)
2. Senate filibuster critics are nuts
Thu Mar 7, 2024, 12:52 PM
Mar 7

Manchin will be replaced by a vote even more stridently against Democrats killing the filibuster for legislation. And there's more than a slight chance that Sinema will be as well.

The more important narrative they're missing is that if Trump is elected... he almost certainly brings in a red senate majority with him (possibly a substantial one - as we are defending several competitive seats and have to run the table now just to keep the senate at 50/50).

The filibuster then becomes the only thing standing between us and Trump's most extreme legislative agenda items. Lots of those "Senate filibuster critics" will return to the other side of the argument

The worst-case scenario is a repeat of what gave us the current supreme court. Republicans take this push from the "senate critics" as an excuse to go ahead and kill the filibuster (and perhaps increase the size of the courts)... and no way for us to stop it. We will once again come to regret what was always a wrong-headed idea that had a short-term gain yet was a long-term catastrophe.

JustAnotherGen

(31,956 posts)
4. If Trump wins
Thu Mar 7, 2024, 01:22 PM
Mar 7

They've learned their lesson.

The more important narrative they're missing is that if Trump is elected... he almost certainly brings in a red senate majority with him (possibly a substantial one - as we are defending several competitive seats and have to run the table now just to keep the senate at 50/50).

The filibuster then becomes the only thing standing between us and Trump's most extreme legislative agenda items. Lots of those "Senate filibuster critics" will return to the other side of the argument


There is no legislative agenda - just Project 2025: https://www.project2025.org/

speak easy

(9,338 posts)
6. "if Trump is elected [with] a red senate majority"
Thu Mar 7, 2024, 01:28 PM
Mar 7

the first thing they will do is see if they have then numbers to kill the filibuster.

FBaggins

(26,775 posts)
7. Why wouldn't they have the numbers?
Thu Mar 7, 2024, 01:45 PM
Mar 7

All of the Democrats but two seemingly think it's a racist anachronism. Right?

FBaggins

(26,775 posts)
9. Oh - I agree with that.
Thu Mar 7, 2024, 02:16 PM
Mar 7

I always thought that Manchin/Sinema were providing cover for at least a few traditionalists in the party.

But I doubt many here consider Republicans to be as principled. No matter how small their majority... there are dozens of Democrats who are on record supporting killing the filibuster.

If Trump comes to power with majorities in both chambers - there's no way to avoid the following: Either Republicans will be shown to be principled in their positions... not moving to kill the filibuster because they actually always believed that it was sacrosanct (stop laughing!)... or Democrats will prove that it was never about a principled belief that the filibuster should go.

Here's hoping we never find out.

JustAnotherGen

(31,956 posts)
11. Trump has said he will be a dictator the first day
Thu Mar 7, 2024, 02:58 PM
Mar 7

After that - you don't need to be a dictator - as you have complete autocratic authority.

Our Bi-Cameral Legislature will not hold - and if it does - the Democratic Party members in those two house will be imprisoned or killed.

Sneederbunk

(14,314 posts)
3. It was always my opinion that
Thu Mar 7, 2024, 01:21 PM
Mar 7

there were other Dem senators wanting to keep the filibuster and hiding behind Manchin and Sibema.

patphil

(6,232 posts)
5. I think we can hold the Arizona seat, but the West Virginia seat is probably going away.
Thu Mar 7, 2024, 01:24 PM
Mar 7

Manchin was a former governor, and his conservative Democratic positions allowed him to win a close election 6 years ago.
It would be very difficult for any Democrat to hold onto that seat in a state that is so strongly Republican.

keopeli

(3,527 posts)
10. Recommended that everyone read a history of the filibuster. It's not what it used to be at all.
Thu Mar 7, 2024, 02:16 PM
Mar 7

After reading the history, I suggest:

- we reform the filibuster so that it only innoculates certain issues of major importance or, in the alternate, we make certain legislation exempt from the filibuster. (It is like this today, with judicial appointments, cabinet approvals, and spending bills being exempt, in part, from the filibuster.

- we return to the real filibuster which is a protracted holding of the floor by a single senator or, in the alternate, limiting debate otherwise so that it can not be eternal but has a long, but limited, expiration point.

I'm sure there are better ideas than mine. However, we go back and forth on this depending on who is in the majority. Repugs in the majority are BIG fans of killing the filibuster and vice-versa. That is unsustainable.

I'll also point out that, if we kill the filibuster entirely, we will see legislation reversing laws every time a new party takes the majority. Wild swings in our laws will become the norm.

Just my humble (informed) opinion.

Marthe48

(17,052 posts)
12. Hoping to see action on codifying abortion rights
Thu Mar 7, 2024, 03:11 PM
Mar 7

some kind of action on reining in the (formerly) s.c. Maybe voting rights? Minority rights? If the Dems win majorites across the board, I would like to see them use it, and make some of the things permanent that right now remain at the whim of whatever party is the majority.

rwnj are not going to play fair, not going to be reasonable, will continue to empower zealots and hypocrites. Let us please do something to roll back the ridiculous, unamerican dialogue and action that has been allowed to wreck so many lives in this country.

MurrayDelph

(5,301 posts)
13. To correct the article
Thu Mar 7, 2024, 04:40 PM
Mar 7

McConnell is a "staunch defender of the filibuster" when Democrats are in charge of the Senate. When Republicans are in charge, he will decry them doing the same things he did as "unprecedented obstruction" and will find a weaselly reason to ignore filibuster rules.

Personally, I think the filibuster, instead of being blown up, should either go the "Mr Smith" version, where one has to keep talking to continue the filibuster, or change it so that it takes two-thirds to continue it, instead of end it.

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