Huzzah for Bennie Thompson!

As he said, "It is regrettable that it has come to this," but it has, and it needs to be dealt with.

Last edited Sat Apr 20, 2024, 12:25 AM - Edit history (1)

So I'm gonna have to assume this is not a joke.

Enjoy your *cough* stay at DU.

I don't think this would pass the House.

But then again, things are going to be very different, come next January.

was done by law and the last update happened under Obama, which restored "lifetime" coverage after the coverage had been ended after 10 years in an earlier 1994 law - H.R.6620 - Former Presidents Protection Act of 2012

So something would need to be done by either an amendment to the above or some new law.

and if I were Merchan I would be asking for consultation with the SS and DHS about how to handle a jail stay for a contempt matter. Better to figure it out ahead of time. I would imagine it would not be Rikers but rather some "secure state run" facility in the NYC area. I think they would want to keep him close so his lawyers could easily consult with him.

Realistically even if he gets a prison sentence from a guilty verdict I think they will let him stay out on appeal. Assuming he lost all of the appeals then I think the same scenario of a "white collar forced vacation spot" run by the state is a likely destination. He could conceivably drag out appeals for several years and go beyond his natural life.

it might end up being a "home confinement" type of thing, and I would think especially since this is a "white collar" financial crime.

Of course we did see "white collar" criminals who ended up in prison like Enron's Jeffrey Skilling, Bernie Madoff, pharma bro Martin Shkreli, and most recently, FTX's Sam Bankman-Fried.

wouldn't confine him to the Tower penthouse though. A little too "non-punishment" in appearance. Most states have some "pre-release" facilities etc. that are restrictive one room sort of facilities that the SS could easily protect. I think Merchan will just warn him on Tuesday and then move along. But anything further I could see him cooling his heels for a couple of days.

Criminal contempt is handled differently than civil contempt. Criminal is punishment for your bad behavior. Civil is for the purposes of trying to get you to comply with a proceeding. Like turning over documents etc. Usually either one has to be handled and have a length that is reasonable for the offense. A judge who would try to hand down a criminal contempt sentence of 6 months or longer is probably going to get reversed pretty quick. They don't want judges to "substitute" contempt sentencing for an actual sentencing for a crime. A civil contempt that goes more than a few months is also very susceptible to being overturned. The most famous case of a court abusing a sentencing for civil contempt in "recent" history that readily comes to mind is Susan McDougal. The 18 months of her incarceration on civil contempt issued by Judge Susan Webber Wright was the maximum allowed. The treatment of McDougal for a matter of civil contempt was disgraceful and very much carried out vindictively by Starr. She spent 8 of those 18 months in solitary confinement. For civil contempt that is extreme. She was also bounced around by Starr from prison to prison. Likely hoping she might "say something" to a fellow inmate that he could use against her. Civil contempt is meant to be "coercive" rather than punitive. But "Keyhole Kenny" was going to get his pound of flesh any way he could.

The fact that McDougal rightly feared that if she answered Starr's questions to the grand jury and contradicted either her ex-husband or David Hale that Starr would indict her for perjury as he had done to Julie Steele when she didn't go along with the cooked up story of David Hale and Jim McDougal. She did say in all of the proceedings that if they appointed a different prosecutor she would answer all questions. That alone should have been enough for a court to intervene in her contempt sentence. But those were the Clinton years.

An interesting tangent is that one of the main people creating the myth of Whitewater in order to save David Hale from a lengthy prison stretch was Floyd Brown who also concocted stories about Bill Clinton having and affair with a college student who committed suicide. Brown followed and harassed the girl's family trying to get them to go along with his smear plan. David Bossie was a big part of that also. Floyd was doing this through his smear group........... Citizen's United. Floyd and CU were hugely active in supporting and coordinating the appointment of............ "Cash and Carry" Clarence Thomas who would later of course vote a certain way. Bossie remains in charge of CU and he was deeply involved at a high executive level in the 2016 and 2020 campaigns of the Orange Ruski and the 2020 campaign of Netanyahu. Bossie and Corey Lewandowski still advise Netanyahu politically.

Small world. I'm working up the "oomph" to do some articles about the horrors of these people and their connections through the last century into now. Also one on a recent Supreme Court decision that is important, little discussed and outrageous in the insanity of the argument and reasoning of the majority. If only I was younger.

take some notes.
Make some notes.
Start listening to the verbal. The way people put things.
It’ll start giving you ideas.
Make a bunch of notes and pretty soon you might have a chapter! Or you might have or might develop some good foundational word choices or phrases.
Just start writing. And/Or start noticing which writers and/or essayists tend to ring your chimes in one way or other. And your writings will be more stellar than EVER!!!

Frankly, that’s one reason I’m here, myself.
The reading is like chocolate fudge everything-but-won’t-make-you-fat! I have lots of favorite writers and topic specialists who have helped me widen my understanding of stuff of all kinds. The input in places like this takes you on all sorts of journeys. And best of all it makes you think.

and I take it to heart when I'm writing fiction, lyrics etc. My big problem for things is physical energy and also a somewhat emotional one. My fiction, ramblings and lyrics are usually culled from getting in touch emotionally with whatever hits me. It gets to be very draining for me mentally to stay in "that place" that keeps me "expressing" creatively.

Historical stuff is just a matter of having the physical energy and discipline. But little by little I crank some things out here and there.

It suggests that white collar crime is less serious than... what..... blue collar crime? Theft is theft. It almost shows that there are 2 different justices, one for business class and one for working class. 😟

Offenders who have a history of violence require far more prison resources than those who have no history. It would be madness to put the two together.

He is charged with falsifying business records.

That makes it a felony. Election tampering is the "other crime."

Why is election tampering not charged?

If they charged with election tampering, they might have to prove it worked, whereas in fact it didn't - the facts came out anyway and he didn't lose a voter (that's how well he reads a room..) This way they only need to prove he tried.

There is no indictment count about violating election tampering. Maybe the "experts" can explain that. Are you saying that if something doesn't "work" it can't be charged? If someone attempts to commit murder and is unsuccessful it can't be charged? Strange theory.

This is the 34 count indictment:

https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2023/04/Donald-J.-Trump-Indictment.pdf

I see no count about election tampering. All 34 are falsifying business records.

falsifying business records ia a misdemeanor, unless the falsification is done in furtherance of committing, or attempting to commit, another crime. That will naver be spelled out in a list of charges - not dorectly - yet it is there, in the phrase "in the first degree." To grasp that, you either need to be a lawyer or listen to one. I'm not one, but I do listen to some. I also don't live in New York, therefore when discussing a New York case, I make a point of listening to the ones who either have
practiced in New York or have looked up the issue on which they are speaking. Some whom I follow when I can are Glenn Kirschner, Neat Katyal, Harry Litman, Joyce Vance, Robert Hubbell. I don't remember which one explained this peculiarity of New York l aw - it may have been more than one.

No one knows better than lawyers how differently the legal codes of the different states are written. Cornell University (and it may not be the only one) has a database with the legal codes of all states and territories. Before I retired, when I was working in insurance, I used to have it bookmarked. I no longer do, but I'm confident it's still there.

The pint about "in furtherance of another crime" is vital to the conviction on first degree charges, so I am also confident that if you follow all the testimony you will hear about it.

He worded the bill "convicted and sentenced for a felony that carries a year or more in prison time." Tthe stripping of protection is tied to the conviction, but not to the actual sentence adjudged. So, once convicted, he woldn't even need to be sentenced before the door is open to locking him up as a flight risk, or as a danger to the community.

I would think in the US, where a national tradition of self-immolation does not exist, any felon whose trial was protested by even one person self-immolating should be considered a danger to the community.

Se will never get this bill passed in this House (even if the voting were to be done by secret ballot, although I'd love to see them try). So we need to flip blue every possible seat (in both houses) in November so it can pass next year. - in addition to reelecting Biden.

If he loses the election, theres no way he steps within a hundred miles of a sentencing hearing.

He will run, and THEN it'll take an entire diplomatic envoy and a seal team to drag his fatass back here and throw him in a cell.

from the Chair of the Jan 6 Committee, it would also mean that, even if Trump were convicted and sentenced, the Right and their media would rumble nationwide for weeks that any bill passage is proof that Biden, his administration, and extremist Democrats are out to make trumpcult's man vulnerable to the danger they've already the considered stealth evil at core of the Democratic Party.
The projection of their fear based politics would amplify.

Their base have already threatened judges and court officers..
MAGA leadership would use this as more fuel to pour on the slow burn that's been their sporadic vigilante and political violence.

Adjust justice because of what the crazies on the right will do. Cuz of what they might say on “their” media.

Gotcha.

Well alrighty then.

cape it's based on; about the facts of past 4,200 threats to federal judges since 2020, to the murder of judges in WI, MD, NJ, IL, FL -- and to the restructuring the US Marshals have had to do just to increase protection for 2,700 federal judges and their families at home and in their daily lives.
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/us-marshals-blind-spots-leave-judges-vulnerable-to-threats

Want the bill to pass? Fine. Just know the threat landscape of the criminal defendant's crazies -- and know it's not just all the RW who inhabit it -- and be ready to witness worse than just media dustup if the bill passes. I'll even wager that Biden won't sign it, because he himself will see it as a shortsighted 'camel's nose under the tent' -- to lessen security for a former mouthy president is to lessen security for all former presidents.

go live in fear.

I didn't say to fear. Fear is what blinds people to look away from what endangers their freedoms.

Like it or not, I said let's be objectively aware of the full map of reality out there that would/would not justify passing this bill. I trust Biden's objective map more than Bennie Thompson's.

There is Administrative and Disciplinary Segregation that keeps him separate from population; and since Bill Barr is not in charge of the DOJ, there isn’t an Epstein concern.

There is no issue whatsoever in jailing the treasonous pig.
He can be placed in segregation and will be extremely safe and isolated there......
This whole hand-wringing about SS protection in prison is just plain stupid.

Last night on Lawrence. As much as I like Lawrence, I don’t get his thing about the SS preventing trump from serving prison time because of their numbers. Andrew said there is absolutely no reason at all that trump could not serve prison time. It was one of the few times I detected irritation and annoyance in Andrew’s voice. I think he thinks it’s a stupid argument.

Rec

In fact, I think he's already doing it.

out on a golf course, in crowds of thousands of people. I don't see how it would any more difficult in a
prison. There is a razor wire fence around the prisons. they are behind bars. Give him a private cell like the gang
leaders had in The Goodfellows. Better yet put him in a box like they did with Steve McQueen in the Great Excape.

for Trump?

That, OR, I can sit in front of this jail door all day and fuck off on my phone.

Seems like a no-brainer for somebody on a government pension hahaha..

I think Trump should go to military prison. In any of his fancy houses doesn't seem like punishment.

Prisons are full of violent people. Golf fans don’t go to the course to kick the golfers’ asses….on the other hand, there’s a nonzero chance Trump meets someone in prison who’s there because of a law Trump signed.

That even prisons with the most violent people have ways to keep the worst of the worst separate from each other. They stay in cells by themselves and aren't let out except by themselves for an hour a day. Even their shower is in there.

This is what a high security unit's control area looks like in a prison for the worst of the worst:



Yeah, so bloody dangerous for Don Snorleone in there, or for the SS agent watching him from such a vantage point.

Posted this article this morning!

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016376146

This doesn't seem like a daunting problem unless we're hellbent on mixing him in with the population.

Kick

would largely quash speculation that Trump was Epsteined / Navalny'ed if he died.

Just say that and they’ll be no trumped-up conspiracy theories.

You certainly don't ever any more encounter that civility originating in the party of grovelers, desperate to get favor with their dominator.

This seems like way too savvy and appropriate an action to easily come to pass, but what a great idea!

An alternative would be confinement to military prisons or similar facilities. Seems to me that it would be more secure, both internally and from outside sources, as well as appropriate for a convicted former commander in chief. Maybe even Guantanamo.

Given the millions Trump stripped from the taxpayers to line his own pockets, and how he betrayed our secrets to our enemies, this would only be just and fair.