This sneaky crap ought to put him in the courthouse jail. Merchan should summon Trump to the stand to personally explain himself.

I know you are but what am I. I know you are but what am I. I know you are but what am I. I know you are but what am I.

Enough.

the dolt doesn't have enough neurons to rub together to make a synapse.

Everything he does is scripted. What he says is blabber but nobody thinks that's unusual.

Even his heart-throb Hitler (or Stalin/Putin) were somewhat coherent during their rants.
Hannibal Lecter, Sinatra, Hot-dog named frank

What if picture of the jurists are released? I see a mistrial coming. Gotta be away to STOP this bullshit. They ALL need to be STOPPED at the front door. NOT allowed in.

The cheerleaders can do their routines in the streets!

HUGE penalties if these assholes refuse the judges rules.

They can be used elsewhere in the courthouse.

If the judge has the option it should be NO PHONES, PERIOD! If not, The judge could close the court to all visitors? These people will do anything for MISTRIAL.

Both the US Supreme Court and the NY Court of Appeals have reversed convictions where the courtroom has been closed to spectators.

if sentencing time comes.

This is a white collar crime, there is no way the sentences will ever run consecutively. The max sentence is 4 years. Since Trump has no state or federal felonies convictions on his record, he is a first time offender under the sentencing guidelines. It's quite possible he walks out of there with a year or even less. As much as I would like to see two years out of it, I doubt that will happen.

As I've commented several times before, the biggest effect from a conviction here might be that he will no longer be a first time offender if convicted at any of the other trials.

But we are in uncharted waters with incarcerating a secret service protectee. He might or might not go to Rikers, but wherever it is, he will be segregated from the general pop so that the secret service can control access to him.

That doesn't mean, he would actually be sent there. Like I said, even if he was sent there, it wouldn't be general pop, it would be isolated where secret service could control access to him. If you think about it, that is in line with the mayor's comment. Rikers is ready to hold him doesn't mean it would be done under the same conditions as normal prisoners.

Hate to be the Secret Service detail.
Orange boy has to spend 22 1/2 hours in cell

Secret Service agents gonna get real bored.

The hole would serve that purpose well.

Not even in the same state.

Because that would be news to the rest of us. Are you making the mistake of thinking the Carroll case was a conviction, when it was a civil, not criminal, case?

I want him in jail as much as anyone, but I'm not willing to make up something that isn't so, just to put him there.

But if you have evidence that he's had a felony conviction in the past, then by all means, present it now.

TSF personality negates 'first time offender' to 'first time caught'

but that is not how the law works.

And straight to the clink too. No out while on appeal. He's a public danger so bail should not be allowed.

Denunciations outside the courthouse, then protestors and advocates file in and occupy part of the visitor gallery.

Sometimes it's the court and the system that's denounced, suspicions of the jurors, even cries that they should do something to hurt the defense lawyers because the American way (I guess) is to deny disliked defendants (legal) representation.

Pressure on a judge, from either side, to be biased in reading the law is wrong. It's already bad enough that every judge brings a bias to the law and how to read it, and worse some think that in our democracy it's okay to rely less on the text of the way to provide meaning and guidance to the resolution and more on the "correct" resolution to to provide meaning and guidance as to what the text has to be interpreted to mean, in essence rewriting the legislative history from the people's house and Senate by an oligarchy.

Last edited Wed May 15, 2024, 08:08 PM - Edit history (1)

With this trial? Edit to add, Is it even possible that the judge could order virtual hearing?

Right?

Both the US Supreme Court and the NY Court of Appeals have reversed convictions where the judge excluded some or all spectators.

What are his options?

It's a very high bar. If only one juror complained, the judge might decide to replace that juror with an alternate.

Someone of these assholes taking a picture. Getting their names and pictures out there for the Cultists to threatening purposes.

for someone to take a photo of the jury without being noticed. Sure, someone might surreptitiously send a text or post something on social media, but taking a photo -- unlikely. The trial has been going for over three weeks and there are no reports of photos being taken or distributed.

I honestly feel they could disrupt the court, with the intent of getting some pictures taken without being noticed.

Mob henchmen. Uniformed (dark gray suits and red ties) witness intimidators. And Michael Cohen, who more than anyone understands mob ways, was the witness. What a pathetic loser display by team Trump. The whole charade protects Cohen and further weakens the limp-dick Trump.

to find out if Trump requested or pressured those people to act as surrogates?

They would all deny it if course, but could prosecutors investigate phone calls, texts, etc. to see if they are being truthful?

If they were all proven to commit perjury, how would that affect their standing as legislators? A MAGA House would not take any action against them, but if we gain House seats in November, they could be held accountable.

He wants the trial over.

The court would then have to hold a hearing, take testimony from witnesses on both sides and then would have to find that the evidence established that Trump had directed the "surrogates" to make statements that would violate the gag order if made by Trump. This would be a time-consuming and uncertain mini-trial that would slow down the trial and the prosecution simply will not file a motion -- their focus, as it should be, is on the trial and obtaining a conviction.

of Congressional presence is a delay tactic.

The prosecution isn’t going to make an issue of it.

response that would be a delay.

Plus campaign theatrics and a chance to circumvent the gag order.

I can't imagine watching that and not bursting out in hysterical laughter. But that's just me.

It's possible that
1. Juan Merchan can JUDGE that the court of public opinion being held outside his Manhattan court is toxic or affecting the climate of the proceedings, and limit attendance to press and family;
2. Any member of the jury who complains to Judge Merchan that they feel negatively affected by politicians' presence in the court, can be protected by Merchan who can, again, limit attendance to the press and family members.

The US Supreme Court and the NY Court of Appeals have reversed convictions for violating a defendant's Sixth Amendment right to a public trial. Judge Merchan isn't going to hand Trump a grounds for appeal by barring spectators who are not being disruptive.

I thought I had read of trials where the number of seats were limited. Some even chose spectators by lottery. Can't Merchan do that? I mean, if they thought they weren't going to get in because it's a lottery, then maybe they'd STOP WASTING TAXPAYER MONEY traveling to the circus.

And yeah, the Dems need to look into this waste of taxpayer money. I don't pay taxes so these clowns can travel to New York to support an insurrectionist, classified info-stealing, philandering criminal at a fucking felony trial.

For unreserved spectators, there already is only space for around 9 or 10 after the reporters are allowed in.

He has no basis for excluding particular attendees if they're not being disruptive in the courtroom.

they are acting like an unruly, criminal gang. Doesn't NY have statutes to deal with gangs? I think I remember a dustup a while back (maybe while Rudy was still mayor), about the ways they were treating gangs. I don't see why that can't be deployed here.

Also, if I were the Judge (if ONLY!), I'd amend that gag order. It already states no surrogates coached by trump can violate the gag order. I think that needs to be locked down a bit more, for juror safety and protection of the case. I also thought ALL phones had to be turned in prior to entering the courtroom. Why do they get to keep theirs?

At the very bare minimum, the Judge should (first) warn about disrupting the court, by streaming in after everyone else has been seated. The second time they do it, they should be given contempt of court charges. They'll scream bloody murder, but what the crap? They're doing that already. These traitors keep pushing the lines and we keep letting them slip by without doing anything. Every parent in the world knows you have to set a line that you do not cross, and then backup your words with action. These malcontent children evidently missed out on that aspect of growing up. They need to be taught some respect. And I'm getting damned tired of their antics.

They're acting like the only thing a phone does is facilitate vocal conversation. But with phone cameras as good as they are today, that's a danger to the jury that ought to be addressed. I remember there were plenty of meetings, workshops, etc., where we had to leave our phones at the front when I was in the DoD. They were seen as a security risk in any number of ways. The same should apply to our courtrooms.

prohibit them from being used.

It may be the case that the rule is out of date. But if we're going to argue that Trump should be treated like other criminal defendants, then we have to accept that those attending his trial can keep their phones if they keep them turned off.

Doesn't he have that discretion?

See post #31. Closing the courtroom to non-disruptive spectators would give Trump grounds for appeal.

one would think that with such a high profile trial, there would be many dozens of everyday citizens wanting to sit in just for experiencing such a historical event and perhaps even waiting in line for a chance. I would also think there would be dozens of additional press people from around the world that would love to sit in.

So, if that's true, how is this bunch able to get in so readily and even appear to also get priority seating?

There is an overflow room that holds another 30 or so. The front two rows, behind the tables at which Trump and his principal counsel and the prosecution's principal lawyer sit, are reserved for the defense and prosecution or security personnel such as the Secret Service. Presumably the members of Congress sitting in the first couple of rows behind Trump are sitting in seats reserved by the defense. There are, I believe, 7 additional rows, but the back row is also generally reserved or blocked off and seats next to the middle aisle have been roped off. Around 65 reporters and a handful of members of the public – typically fewer than 10 – fill the rest of the main courtroom.

n/t

By a clown car of dressed-alike cult elders.

Oh my. How can they possibly endure THAT?

at sentencing.

Of witness and jury
Intimidation .

And unless a witness or juror complains that they actually are intimidated, there is no constitutionally permissible basis for excluding non-disruptive spectators at a trial.

Trials take place with nasty people as witnesses all the time -- probably far more "intimidating" than Tommy Tuberville

Ivanka sitting with spectators, crying into her initialed handkerchief, looking up at the judge with watery eyes.

As each one is searched for entering the courthouse, an officer of the court could hand him/her a subpoena seeking testimony regarding communication with Trump. Clearly, he is in violation of the gag order, expressing contempt of court by means of his dummies. “You are being served,” might make the dummies think twice about entering court.

If its so clear that he has directed people to say things he can't say -- as opposed to those folks figuring out on their own that they can say these things -- why hasn't the prosecution complained? Because they know that the standard for finding a violation is "beyond a reasonable doubt" and that wasting time having a mini-trial would be an unnecessary distraction. Their focus is, and we should be happy about this, on trying the case, not a sideshow.

My dog, some quite hypocritical fundamentalists there...

will be the one to sentence on him for his crimes.

... of their comments outside the courtroom. So if he is directing them in any way, that is a clear violation of the gag order.

Throw his diseased ass in jail.

Last edited Sat May 18, 2024, 11:44 AM - Edit history (1)

And to subject himself to cross examination by defense counsel. I'm not holding my breath.

The reporter's claim that he could read the exact words on a note written by Trump and passed to his attorney is dubious. A photo of the courtroom set up shows why:
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/05/14/trump-trial-lawyers-mistakes-00157734

Reporters are seated behind the first two rows, and those rows are behind the section where Trump sits.