Supreme Court conflicted about prosecuting those who lie about military valor
The Supreme Court jousted for an hour Wednesday about whether the First Amendment allows the government to prosecute people for lying about earning military honors, and, if so, what else might be fair game.
(...)
At the end of the arguments in U.S. v. Alvarez , it was unclear how many of what Solicitor General Donald V. Verrilli Jr. called the courts slippery slope questions were in the form of genuine concern or simply playing devils advocate.
The questions raise difficult issues, Verrilli conceded, but should not keep the court from upholding the Stolen Valor Act, which makes lying about receiving some of the nations highest military awards and decorations a crime, punishable in some cases by incarceration.
The statute is about as narrow as you can get, Verrilli said, and targets with pinpoint accuracy only calculated factual falsehoods. And the government since the days of George Washington has shown an interest in promoting valor and bravery in its military and keeping charlatans from usurping that glory.
full: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/supreme-court-conflicted-about-prosecuting-those-who-lie-about-military-valor/2012/02/22/gIQAAHQLUR_singlePage.html
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)Could a state pass a law making it illegal to lie on a job application?
Could be a slippery slope.
Historic NY
(37,462 posts)Tom Ripley
(4,945 posts)Archae
(46,377 posts)I mean, Faux "news" got the "right to lie."
NYC Liberal
(20,138 posts)Fraud definitely has never been protected speech.
Otherwise, it's unconstitutional as hell.
alp227
(32,078 posts)but regarding general lies in the media see the WTVT Monsanto controversy...in 2003 a fed appeals court ruled that the media has the right to lie, meaning that smear campaigns like Swift Boat can't be criminalized. But indeed fraud is crime not free speech.
NYC Liberal
(20,138 posts)However, they get around that simply by saying "X said this" or "Y claims that." Which is almost always factually true if they can find one person who made the claim. It's why all those trashy tabloids are still in business: they are careful to add "according to a source" or similar to all their articles.
Javaman
(62,540 posts)I was the hero at Balaclava during the Crimean war.
christx30
(6,241 posts)I served 3 tours in the Hundred Years war. I would have served a 4th, but I took an arrow to the knee.
Javaman
(62,540 posts)I would have been the hero at Sebastopol but I too, got an arrows to the knee.
Old Troop
(1,991 posts)Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)I was the hero at Balaclava during the Civil War.
What, you haven't heard about that one?
Totally classified, you see. Already said too much.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)but I don't think we need to waste time arresting them and putting them through the court system. They will most likely be found out and humiliated anyway.
Cosmocat
(14,589 posts)from watching a bit on Faux or CNN - yes, I know it was Faux or CNN ...
I tend to think this is an overreach, but if the Legion and other veteran groups are pushing it, it is hard to go against them.
Gringostan
(127 posts)I'm in total agreement; with the internet today it's pretty much impossible to lie about anything without getting caught. And, in the case of stolen valor, publicly disgraced.
24601
(3,967 posts)separately.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)I know there's groups that make a point of discrediting the herds of people claiming to be, e.g., Navy Seals.
On this side of the border, Victoria Cross claimants are probably the funniest as far as the "who do you think you're fooling?" people go.
BOHICA12
(471 posts)and the subsequent humiliation. That type of justice is sort of - like - criminal. Sad!
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)Flag lapel pins indicated that the wearer was a veteran. When Newt got to DC he did not like the fact that a far higher percentage of elected Democrats were entitled to wear the pin than were Republicans. So he decided to ignore the rule, start wearing it himself and encouraged his fellow Republicans to join him in this deception.
And, of course, a *lot* of people were fooled into thinking Republicans were military veterans.
As far as I know that rule has never been changed.
24601
(3,967 posts)them. Can you please cite some sources?
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)A lot of these guys, my father included, were furious when Gingrich started doing that. So far as they were concerned Gingrich was pretending to be a veteran.
Everybody does it now, of course. Gingrich and company took that symbol away from the veterans.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)I've been AD USAF for 21+ years and I've never heard of your claims.
24601
(3,967 posts)vets, but I had 25 years in uniform and never heard that one. Plenty to dislike about Gingrich - but I wouldn't include that. He was elected ion 1978 - and according to Time, the lapel pins predate that.
"It was during the culture wars of the late '60s and early '70s that the flag lapel pin truly took off and became the simultaneously uniting and divisive symbol that it is today. Republican candidates in the 1970 congressional race wore them as a symbol of patriotic solidarity against anti-Vietnam protesters like Abbie Hoffman who donned a shirt made of the flag or others who stitched the flag onto the seat of their pants. But it was Richard Nixon who brought the pin to national attention. According to Stephen E. Ambrose's biography Nixon, the President got the idea for sporting a lapel pin from his chief of staff, H.R. Haldeman, who had noticed a similar gesture in the Robert Redford film The Candidate. Nixon commanded all of his aides to go and do likewise. The flag pins were noticed by the public, and many in Nixon's supposed "silent majority" began to similarly sport flags on their lapels. Over the next few decades, the pin sporadically surged in popularity. During the Gulf War, they sold briskly alongside flag patches and yellow ribbons."
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1820023,00.html
onenote
(42,850 posts)I was working on Capitol Hill when Gingrich was speaker and I can tell you I certainly never heard such a story. Newt's as low as they get. Don't need to make up stuff to make him look bad.
Old Troop
(1,991 posts)When I retired from AD after 27 years, I put away the uniforms, medals & ribbons, plaques and certificates and concentrated on the future. The only thing displayed in our home reminding us of our military career is a picture of our quarters at Ft Benning when I was a major. My wife likes it because the photo is composed so well and she loved that house.
It's pretty easy to detect the liars -- ask them where they were and they usually say, "I was all over that damned place" or "It was a black op that I still can't talk about."