UN calls on Vatican to investigate Magdalene abuse
Source: The Irish Times
UN calls on Vatican to investigate Magdalene abuse
Church ordered to remove all suspected child abusers
Wed, Feb 5, 2014
The United Nations demanded today that the Vatican “immediately remove” all clergy who are known or suspected child abusers and turn them over to civil authorities, in an unprecedented and scathing report.
The UN watchdog for children’s rights said the Holy See should also hand over its archives on sexual abuse of tens of thousands of children so that culprits, as well as “those who concealed their crimes”, could be held accountable.
The watchdog’s exceptionally blunt paper - the most far-reaching critique of the Church hierarchy by the world body - followed its public grilling of Vatican officials last month.
“The Committee is gravely concerned that the Holy See has not acknowledged the extent of the crimes committed, has not taken the necessary measures to address cases of child sexual abuse and to protect children, and has adopted policies and practices which have led to the continuation of the abuse by and the impunity of the perpetrators,” the report said....
Read more: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/un-calls-on-vatican-to-investigate-magdalene-abuse-1.1680285
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
warrant46
(2,205 posts)DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)
get the red out
(13,468 posts)It's time the world start seeing abuse as abuse and a criminal as a criminal; regardless of their perceived "standing" in a religious community, society, or culture.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)happyslug
(14,779 posts)One good thing about this report is the Vatican did ratify the Convention on the rights of Children and thus agreed to be subject to this report, but that is NOT true of the United States and Somali (The only two countries that have NOT ratified this treaty, Please note South Sudan has not signed or ratified these treaties, but since it is only recently independent it is still subject to this treaty for the Sudan when it included South Sudan, signed and ratified the treaties):
Ratification of treaty dates:
http://tbinternet.ohchr.org/_layouts/TreatyBodyExternal/Treaty.aspx?Treaty=CRC&Lang=en
List of reports released on January 31, 2014:
http://tbinternet.ohchr.org/_layouts/treatybodyexternal/SessionDetails1.aspx?SessionID=851&Lang=en
Here is the actual report:
http://tbinternet.ohchr.org/Treaties/CRC/Shared%20Documents/VAT/CRC_C_VAT_CO_2_16302_E.pdf
The optional report on child abuse (an addition to the above report):
http://tbinternet.ohchr.org/Treaties/CRC-OP-SC/Shared%20Documents/VAT/CRC_C_OPSC_VAT_CO_1_16307_E.pdf
They even criticized the Vatican for NOT making it a crime to recruit SOLDIERS in the Vatican if they are below 18 years of age:
http://tbinternet.ohchr.org/Treaties/CRC-OP-AC/Shared%20Documents/VAT/CRC_C_OPAC_VAT_CO_1_16311_E.pdf
Here is a list of Documents the Committee relied on:
http://tbinternet.ohchr.org/_layouts/treatybodyexternal/TBSearch.aspx?Lang=en
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Just in case anyone was wondering why the UN would be involved in these matters.
Permanent observer since 1964
Since April 6, 1964, the Holy See has been a permanent observer state at the United Nations. In that capacity, the Holy See has since had a standing invitation to attend all the sessions of the General Assembly, the United Nations Security Council, and the United Nations Economic and Social Council to observe their work, and to maintain a permanent observer mission at the UN headquarters in New York.[1] Accordingly, the Holy See has established a Permanent Observer Mission in New York and has sent representatives to all open meetings of the General Assembly and of its Main Committees.
As a matter of diplomatic courtesy, since 1964, the Holy See was also allowed to make formal policy statements in the General Assembly, both during the General Debates and during the discussion of the various separate issues contained in the agenda of the General Assembly.[4] Notably, Popes Paul VI,[5] John Paul II,[6] and Benedict XVI[7] were invited to address the General Assembly.
In addition, the Holy See was invited to observe all open meetings of the intergovernmental subsidiary bodies of the General Assembly. The Holy See was frequently allowed to participate in the private negotiations leading to the adoption of the General Assembly's decisions and resolutions. The Holy See was not allowed, however, to co-sponsor draft decisions or resolutions, to make points of order or to exercise the right of reply. If the Holy See wished to circulate written proposals or position papers, it required the assistance of a member state that was willing to present those proposals or papers as its own.
The Holy See took advantage the prerogatives of its observer status to incorporate its interpretation of Christian values within the decisions and recommendations of the United Nations. Notable was a successful effort, in cooperation with like-minded countries, to ensure the adoption of a United Nations Declaration banning all forms of Human Cloning,[8] and it opposed the adoption of a resolution on sexual orientation and gender identity proposed by the European Union in the General Assembly; a similar UNHRC-specific resolution on LGBT rights proposed by the Republic of South Africa was successfully passed in the United Nations Human Rights Council.[9]
(excerpt from Wikipedia)
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Unfortunately, I had to snip this press release because it was slightly too long to post in it entirety according to DU rules.
I must also preface this by explaining a couple of phrases found here that are "codes" found throughout many speeches, press releases and documents from the Vatican, Holy See. et al, to wit:
"Catholic Church teaching on the dignity of the human person" = opposition to contraception and abortion
"exercise of religious freedom" = the right to discriminate against LGBT persons on the claim of religious liberty; has also been used with regard to contraception mandates and abortion.
http://www.vis.va/vissolr/index.php?vi=all&dl=98b73089-8449-c69d-602d-52f23e7a76ea&dl_t=text/xml&dl_a=y&ul=1&ev=1
Vatican Information Service
5/2/2014
PRESS RELEASE ON OBSERVATIONS OF THE UNITED NATIONS COMMITTEE ON THE RIGHTS OF THE CHILD
Vatican City, 5 February 2014 (VIS) – This morning the Holy See Press Office issued a communique on the observations of the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child, the full text of which is published below:
<snipping>
According to the proper procedures foreseen for the parties to the Convention, the Holy See takes note of the Concluding Observations on its Reports, which will be submitted to a thorough study and examination, in full respect of the Convention in the different areas presented by the Committee according to international law and practice, as well as taking into consideration the public interactive debate with the Committee, held on 16 January 2014.
The Holy See does, however, regret to see in some points of the Concluding Observations an attempt to interfere with Catholic Church teaching on the dignity of the human person and in the exercise of religious freedom....
The Holy See reiterates its commitment to defending and protecting the rights of the child, in line with the principles promoted by the Convention on the Rights of the Child and according to the moral and religious values offered by Catholic doctrine”.
Keefer
(713 posts)could actually enforce this, it might mean something.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)
Scairp
(2,749 posts)So it has only taken them 18 years to get around to this disgraceful episode in the history of Ireland. Fucking unbelievable. And even now the Irish government are dragging their feet so it isn't just the Catholics trying to cover up the past. It's been like pulling teeth to get them to do anything about it.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)The reason being is the studies in regards to the laundries point out the women and girls in such laundries could leave at any time UNLESS PUT IN THE LAUNDRIES BY A COURT.
Here is an actual report on these laundries:
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/MagdalenRpt2013
The Catholic League is generally a place I do not site, there tend to be radical pro catholic but there have a decent article on the inaccuracy in the film "Magdalene Laundries":
http://www.catholicleague.org/myths-of-the-magdalene-laundries/
Roger Elbert's response to the Catholic League attack on the movie:
http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-magdalene-sisters-2003
The problem is Elbert does NOT want to admit that the movie was and is fiction, he wants it to be based on similar facts. The problem is by the 1950s physical punishment was already going away. We know that in the 1980s, the worse punishment given to a girl is such a laundray was to have to stay at the adjoining nursing home for a night:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin%C3%A9ad_O'Connor
Chapter 8 of the report:
70% of "inmates" left within six months of entering the laundries and most entered and left on their own i.e. they decided to go to the laundry or leave the laundry, they were NOT forced to stay,
The report had a problem with the number of former inmates to the Laundries, they did not have enough to feel comfortable that they were a true representative sample. On the other hand it is the best data we have.
Only one former inmate said she suffered any form of sexual abuse while in the laundaries:
'
happening to anyone else. Auxiliaries, referred to variously as “consecrates” or “magdalenes”, were women who, having entered a Magdalen Laundry, decided to remain there for life.
32. No other women in contact with the Committee made any allegation of sexual abuse during their time in the Magdalen Laundries. However a significant number told the Committee that they had suffered sexual abuse in the family home or in other institutions, either before or after their time in the Magdalen Laundries.
Chapter 19, page 931
Yes, they has suffered sexual abuse BUT NOT IN THE LAUNDARIES and the other insitutions tended to be Irish State run reform schools.
As to physical abuse, the victims had suffered phyiscal abuse ELSEWHERE but NOT in the Laudaries:
physical abuse in the Magdalen Laundries.
34. In this regard, women who had in their earlier lives been in an industrial or reformatory school drew a clear distinction between their experiences there and in the Magdalen Laundries, stating clearly that the widespread brutality which they had witnessed and been subjected to in industrial and reformatory schools was not a feature of the Magdalen Laundries.
Chapter 19, Page 932 of the report
- One woman summarised her treatment in a Magdalen Laundry by saying “I might have been given out to, but I was never beaten”.1
- Another woman said about the same Magdalen Laundry “I was never beaten and I never seen anyone beaten”.2
- Another woman said “It has shocked me to read in papers that we were beat and our heads shaved and that we were badly treated by the nuns. As long as I was there, I was not touched myself by any nun and I never saw anyone touched and there was never a finger put on them.
... Now everything was not rosy in there because we were kept against our will ... we worked very hard there ... But in saying that we were treated good and well looked after”.3
- Another woman, in response to a question about whether she had suffered corporal punishment at the Magdalen Laundry, said “no, mind you, thank god” and that neither had she seen others hit.4
- A different woman who spent time in the same Magdalen Laundry said “I don’t ever remember anyone being beaten but we did have to work very hard”. She described the manner in which women would protest – “If we were down and out, we’d go on the wren”. She described this as
sitting on the stairs and refusing to work.
Another woman at a different Magdalen Laundry said she was “not beaten, no-one would”. There were other punishments for misbehaviour – “you were punished – put to bed without your supper, things like that”.6
- A woman at that same Magdalen Laundry when asked if there had been any physical punishments or beatings said “No, they never hit you in the laundry. They never hit me, but the nun looked down on me ‘cause I had no father”.
- A woman at another Magdalen Laundry said that “they might rap your knuckles with theirs, that’d be it”.8
- Another woman, who was at a Magdalen Laundry for periods in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s told the Committee “I have lovely scars from the orphanage ... I was never hit in [name of Laundry]. The nuns never hit me in [name of Laundry], I’ll give that to them. But they gave it to you in your mind”. She added “I hit one of the nuns once with a stick from the laundry”.9
- A woman who was at a different Magdalen Laundry said “they’d poke you with pointer but they didn’t lash out”.10
- A woman at the same Magdalen Laundry said “I wasn’t beaten but they’d shake you. And we were hungry – bread and dripping”.11
- Another woman said “I don’t ever remember anyone being beaten but
we did have to work very hard. We were robbed of our childhood, but
then, I had a mother that beat the crap out of me”.
Another woman described the difference between her experience of industrial school and the Magdalen Laundry “In the industrial school it was weapons, it was desperate. It wasn’t the same in the Laundry and I never remember being hit with a weapon”.13
- A woman who spent time in 3 different Magdalen Laundries summarised the treatment she had received as follows: “No beatings, only working. Hardest work ever”.14
- Another woman, who had been in two Magdalen Laundries described the physical punishment she suffered in industrial school as “desperate”. She categorised her treatment in the Magdalen Laundries as “mental cruelty”. Regarding that time, she said that the nuns were “very cruel, but they couldn’t hit us ... physical cruelty didn’t happen, but mental cruelty did”.15
- A woman who had been in a different Magdalen Laundry in the 1950s, when asked about any physical punishment said “no, we were just mass, breakfast, silence, mass again, then work in the laundry”.16
- A different woman who was in a Magdalen Laundry in the 1940s and 1950s said “I never saw any of the women and girls living with me being ill treated or severely punished in any way, no beatings, no head shaving, no denial of food, my only complain was that of being kept there for no reason. ... Many many more would say the same”.17
- Another woman described the difference between Magdalen Laundries and industrial schools as “... a big difference. A very big difference”. She said that at the Magdalen Laundries “there was no physical.
punishment, it was all mental really. We were never hit. I think they were afraid to hit us. I would hit back”. She also reported that women would in protest “go up to sit on the stairs, we went to Coventry, went and sat on the stairs and not do any work”. The punishment for this
would be that the woman would “not be let in for evening meal”. This “could go on a whole week, we were able to endure it because our friends brought us the food ... we were too crafty for them, they were praying the whole time ... some girls would stay there in the evening too in the dark, with no recreation”.18
- Another woman at a different Magdalen Laundry when asked if she had ever suffered physical or corporal punishment, said “no, no, not that. But it was just this big building and laundry and I had a terrible childhood and then I was grieving over specified bereavement”
Chapter 19, page 933 to 936
36. A small number of women described physical punishment on at least one occasion.
- One woman described suffering a physical assault at the hands of 2 auxiliaries on the day of her entry to a Magdalen Laundry. She said that on arrival to the Magdalen Laundry:
“two ladies were standing there, not nuns but dressed in navy. I was left with those two”; and after being made to remove her clothing and stand on a stool, she described being “punched by
one of them, one side to another. I was dizzy, I kept saying I’m dizzy”.
She described the following morning as follows:
“I had to line up with the rest of the Magdalens for prayers,church, breakfast. A nun sitting on a high chair told the ‘3 new penitents to say your name’. I saw they were bruised too. I never ever saw another one, just that one time, never anything like that again. They would raise voices more than anything –
not hands”.20
- Another woman described physical contact on more than one occasion. Regarding her time in a Magdalen Laundry in the 1950s, she said:
“If you were talking you used to get a slap with a stick get on with work. It could be a nun or a woman who was there a long time ... if you were whispering the bigger girls might push you or
pull your hair”.21
- Another woman provided the following description of her experience of physical abuse at a Magdalen Laundry. She said that there were only two nuns in the Laundry, one “used to sit and watch over all the girls and there was another down the bottom floor checking it”. She said:
“I never saw a cane. There was a nun with a thick stick but she’d dig it at you. I never seen her draw it and hit anyone. They’d dig you with the cross too. And they used to pull their hair and box their face”.
Chapter 19, page 936-937
On the other hand verbal abuse was reported:
One woman spoke of receiving “cruel talk”.
- Another woman at a different Magdalen Laundry said she remembered hurtful comments “I remember a nun telling me that you came from an illegitimate mother. I suppose it was that you were no good and that’s why we were there”.24
- Another woman also spoke of her family background as being unkindly referred to - she said that “the nuns looked down on me ‘cause I had no father”.25
- Another woman in that same laundry said “we were never happy. You were lonely”. She described how, on the journey to the Laundry, “in the car the nuns were saying I had the devil in me, shaking holy water and saying the rosary in the car”. She had been raised in an industrial
school with no known family and also described how a Sister on her entry to the Laundry, in front of all the other women, said “tell them where you were brought up and reared”. 26
- Another woman, who was in a number of Magdalen Laundries, said that in one of these Laundries the Sisters would make cruel comments about her family background, such as “what do you think you are, I heard all about your family”. This was particularly hurtful to the woman
concerned as she said that “my father interfered with the bigger girls”.
- Another woman said that “conditions were bad now ... one nun took me under her wing and a lovely woman she was, she was good to me”
Another woman at the same Magdalen Laundry said “the nuns were very nasty. They’d say ‘your father is a drunkard’ in front of everyone. It would degrade me. You know everyone knows your business”.
- Another woman said “They were very very cruel verbally- ‘your mother doesn’t want you, why do you think you’re here’ and things like that”.
Page 938-939 Chapter 19
- A woman reported that, after running away from a Magdalen Laundry in the 1950s and being returned by the Gardaí, she was “put in isolation for two days”. 31
- A woman at a different Magdalen Laundry said “I broke a cup once and she put a string on it and I had to wear it for 3 days and 3 nights. And I threw a hanger one time and she made me wear it 3 days and 3 nights”. 32
- Another woman who had been in two Magdalen Laundries reported that, in one of these laundries, “there was a padded cell, I was put in there 3 times”. In the other Laundry, she was “told if I didn’t work there’d be no food and the infirmary”. Apart from that, punishment was
“not let you write to anyone”. In neither of the Laundries did she experience physical punishment - she said of one of the Laundries “they were very cruel but they couldn’t hit us”, and of the other “physical cruelty didn’t happen but mental cruelty did”.
A woman at a different Magdalen Laundry reported that the punishment she saw was “they would make you walk in front of all the women in the refectory and lie on the ground and kiss the floor”.
- Another woman said that as a young girl she moved an item of clothing (a bra) from the laundry. She said “I was made an example of next day. She called my name at dinnertime. You’d be mortified. She said ‘you took a brassiere out of the laundry’, ‘yes I wanted to be like the other girls’. Didn’t she make me kneel there for two hours”. 35
- Another woman said that, during her time in a Magdalen Laundry, she began to wet the bed. She said that “they pinned the sheet to me back and I was walking on the veranda with it”
Chapter 19, page 939-940
Only one report of any girls hair being SHAVED, but it was due to lice not punishment:
- “When I said it was all itchy they shaved it ... If you got lice your head was shaved”. In response to a question on whether hair was ever shaved as a punishment, she replied “Just for the lice”
Chapter 19, page 944
Other women report their hair being cut on arrival, three report it was later done as punishment, but most of the women said it was NOT cut after the initial cut and some women said they hair was NOT cut, for it was already short.
Maybe is because I have to deal with people who actually are in Jail and seen how discipline has to be maintained and when done right, no physical abuse is needed (except in those cases where the "inmate" is not being belligerent and stupid, a bad combination in anyone, any place). These women had a hard job to do (remember these laundries had to pay their own way which is why the British set them up in the 1800s) and they had been put into the laundry by court order (through a solid 30-45% of the people in the laundry, mostly older women with no place else to go, were they voluntarily). It was a rough place, but the reports indicate better then the Reformatory schools that these women came out of.
The biggest problem to these women, when you read the reports and what the women said were they main fear when in the laundry, is that they saw the older women in the laundry and thought they would be in the laundry for the rest of their lives, not the six months or less (sometimes longer) time period that was part of their "transition" to post reform school life.
The problem is who did not tell the women they would be in the laundry only for a limited time period? The nuns did not, but did the nun even know when they could release the woman? Generally that is NOT up to who ever is holding such prisoners, but up to the Judge that sentences them OR a parole board of similar organization that sets release methods.
As I said before, I suspect the main problem with these women being in the Laundries had more to do with the Irish Courts, the police and Whatever Ireland called their Children and Youth System then the religious orders running these laundries.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)...the government aided and abetted The Church in their crimes.
Scairp
(2,749 posts)So that ship has sailed. They should have gotten out in front of this years and years ago. Time for some grown-ups to do something, i.e. the United Nations. And Ireland is finally beginning to get it's nose out of the Vatican's ass so between that and this very scathing report, this investigation should begin moving forward more rapidly than it has been over the past 20 years. One would hope anyway.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/victim-s-groups-welcome-findings-of-un-committee-1.1680953
http://world.time.com/2013/02/07/the-magdalene-laundries-irish-report-exposes-a-national-shame/
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/jun/08/irealnd-magdalene-laundries-scandal-un
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/19/ireland-apologises-slave-labour-magdalene-laundries
mackerel
(4,412 posts)mackerel
(4,412 posts)the male head of household insisted they be released. In some cases a woman had to wait until a younger brother with the balls and gumption became of age and the old man had passed before she could get released.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)You should read the report, Chapter 19 of the report goes into details as to the living conditions in the laundries and how the women would leave the laundries. Over 68% of the women in the laundries left within one year of entering the laundries (This is actually from Chapter 8, page 168 of the report). 16.4% were self referred to the laundries. 14.8 were transfers from other laundries, 10.5% referred by families, 8.8% by a priest (Generally at the request of their families). 7.8% from the reform schools (See Chapter 8, page 162 of the report).
In chapter 18 of the report they show several cases of women who "ran away", "Picked up by a sister who lived out of state", "Who returned home on her own", many were "Sent to the County Home", other were just released. Other were released do to a "placement" i,e, someone found them a different job. Many women only stayed a few days, some 10 days, most less then six months (through one stayed 60 years, after being put in the home by the IRA in the 1920s, she was "released to Hospital" a few months after she was taken to the laundry by the IRA, then voluntary returned and stayed 60 years till she died in the 1980s.
- A woman (age not recorded) voluntarily entered after she “left husband”. The date of her departure was not recorded, but her destination was; she went to a job in a named hospital.
- A 17-year old girl whose parents were dead was “brought by the IRA” to a Magdalen Laundry in the 1920s. She is recorded as having left 2 days later.
- A 15-year old girl was “brought by the IRA” to a Magdalen Laundry in the 1920s. Her mother was recorded as being “in a workhouse” at the time. Neither the duration of her stay nor the details of her departure are recorded.
- A 17-year old girl whose parents were dead was “brought by the IRA” to a Magdalen Laundry in the 1920s. After less than a week, she “left for hospital”.
- A 14-year old girl whose parents were alive was “brought by the Volunteers” to a Magdalen Laundry in the 1920s. She remained there for almost 2 years until she is recorded as having “left for home”.
A 50-year old woman was “brought by the IRA” to a Magdalen Laundry in the 1920s. She is recorded as having left 10 days later.
- A 17-year old girl was “brought by the IRA” to a Magdalen Laundry in the 1920s. She left once for hospital, from which she returned a month afterwards. She spent another 6 months in the Magdalen Laundry before being “taken out by her parents”.
- A 17-year old girl was “brought by the IRA” to a Magdalen Laundry in the 1920s. She left the following day.
- A teenage girl was “brought by the IRA” to a Magdalen Laundry in the 1920s. Very shortly after her arrival, she is recorded as having “left for hospital”. Some months later, she returned to the Magdalene Laundry and is recorded as having remained there until her death in the 1980s.
Chapter 18, page 910-911
Another way to look at the Statistics is that when it came to women referred to the laundries (Chapter 8, page 163):
38.2% were referred by non-state institutions (Self referred, family referrals, etc)
26,5% were referrals from State institutions, prisons, reform schools, mental homes etc.
26,0% came from other Laundries and other Congregations
The report in chapter 19 clearly states most women in the Laundries volunteered to be in the Laundries. As to the women assigned to the Laundries by court order, they were not released to either someone agreed to hire them as some sort of housekeeper or other job (we are talking about the 1950s and 1960s in most cases) or just released for they had done what the Judge said was the time needed for them to adjust from life in a reform school to the outside world.
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/MagdalenRpt2013
Now, those women put in my their fathers, had to go back with their fathers, but if their father refused were released if other arrangements could be made (and in most cases were).
mackerel
(4,412 posts)my country my people I know where I speak
happyslug
(14,779 posts)If you do not like the report, complain to them, not to me. The report is based on the written records turned over to them by both the Laundries and the Irish Government. You may not like what it reports, but it reflects that paperwork and the memories of people who told the group who wrote the report their stories.
mpcamb
(2,879 posts)You've had a couple decades since Sinead appeared on Saturday Night Live, tearing up an image of the Pope, and you finally get a guy who looks responsive and who has cast out a lot of the evil bastards who perpetrated this and a lot of the administration who enabled it and you (UN) suddenly grow a couple testicles and want some immediate action.
Those weasels were sitting on their hands along with legal authorities throughout various countries for decades when they could have stepped forward.
It's not the action that I'm finding suspect, it's the timing. Where WERE you when that stories were first coming out and the brave individuals of abuse were in need of support?
My kids tell me there's no conspiracy too farfetched for me to believe in. Maybe so. But you finally got a guy with a soul in this office and so you overburden him like a republican weasel congress over past incidents with these demands. WHY in HELL didn't you do that with the Nazi sympathizer who preceded him?
Ok, off the soapbox. Glad it's proceeding. Just hope it doesn't give fuel to those who want this guy out and the old order back.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)Maybe the current Pope is seeing support for his actions getting rid of fraud and corruption by calling for more of the same.
mpcamb
(2,879 posts)Not sure what you mean.
The article in the Irish Times was about the UN demand for"the Vatican['s} “immediately remove” all clergy who are known or suspected child abusers and turn them over to civil authorities, in an unprecedented and scathing report."
happyslug
(14,779 posts)And as such is subject to such reports. In fact every nation, except two, has ratified the Convention of the rights of Children. Somali has not, for it has to have a government to do so and has not had one since at least the 1990s.
The United States is the other country that has NOT ratified the Convention, thus the UN can NOT issue a report on the US, but it can on every other country in the world (Except Somali).
See my comment #11 above which gives references to the actual convention, who has signed it, and who it does not apply to.
ScootersPixiePie
(20 posts)The Magdalene Sisters deals with this. Based on the true stories of three women.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)The three women used in the movie were based on composites of other women. If you read the actual report on the laundries issued by the Irish Government, it kept on hearing these reports, but when the victims did appear in front of the commission, they either denied the report or state it was exaggerated.
Unruly students there were sometimes sent to sleep in the adjoining nursing home, an experience of which she later commented, "I have never – and probably will never – experience such panic and terror and agony over anything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin%C3%A9ad_O'Connor
Here is the Irish report on the Laundries:
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/MagdalenRpt2013
- One woman summarised her treatment in a Magdalen Laundry by saying “I might have been given out to, but I was never beaten”.1
- Another woman said about the same Magdalen Laundry “I was never beaten and I never seen anyone beaten”.2
- Another woman said “It has shocked me to read in papers that we were beat and our heads shaved and that we were badly treated by the nuns. As long as I was there, I was not touched myself by any nun and I never saw anyone touched and there was never a finger put on them.
... Now everything was not rosy in there because we were kept against our will ... we worked very hard there ... But in saying that we were treated good and well looked after”.3
- Another woman, in response to a question about whether she had suffered corporal punishment at the Magdalen Laundry, said “no, mind you, thank god” and that neither had she seen others hit.4
- A different woman who spent time in the same Magdalen Laundry said “I don’t ever remember anyone being beaten but we did have to work very hard”. She described the manner in which women would protest – “If we were down and out, we’d go on the wren”. She described this as
sitting on the stairs and refusing to work.
Another woman at a different Magdalen Laundry said she was “not beaten, no-one would”. There were other punishments for misbehaviour – “you were punished – put to bed without your supper, things like that”.6
- A woman at that same Magdalen Laundry when asked if there had been any physical punishments or beatings said “No, they never hit you in the laundry. They never hit me, but the nun looked down on me ‘cause I had no father”.
- A woman at another Magdalen Laundry said that “they might rap your knuckles with theirs, that’d be it”.8
- Another woman, who was at a Magdalen Laundry for periods in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s told the Committee “I have lovely scars from the orphanage ... I was never hit in . The nuns never hit me in , I’ll give that to them. But they gave it to you in your mind”. She added “I hit one of the nuns once with a stick from the laundry”.9
- A woman who was at a different Magdalen Laundry said “they’d poke you with pointer but they didn’t lash out”.10
- A woman at the same Magdalen Laundry said “I wasn’t beaten but they’d shake you. And we were hungry – bread and dripping”.11
- Another woman said “I don’t ever remember anyone being beaten but
we did have to work very hard. We were robbed of our childhood, but
then, I had a mother that beat the crap out of me”.
Another woman described the difference between her experience of industrial school and the Magdalen Laundry “In the industrial school it was weapons, it was desperate. It wasn’t the same in the Laundry and I never remember being hit with a weapon”.13
- A woman who spent time in 3 different Magdalen Laundries summarised the treatment she had received as follows: “No beatings, only working. Hardest work ever”.14
- Another woman, who had been in two Magdalen Laundries described the physical punishment she suffered in industrial school as “desperate”. She categorised her treatment in the Magdalen Laundries as “mental cruelty”. Regarding that time, she said that the nuns were “very cruel, but they couldn’t hit us ... physical cruelty didn’t happen, but mental cruelty did”.15
- A woman who had been in a different Magdalen Laundry in the 1950s, when asked about any physical punishment said “no, we were just mass, breakfast, silence, mass again, then work in the laundry”.16
- A different woman who was in a Magdalen Laundry in the 1940s and 1950s said “I never saw any of the women and girls living with me being ill treated or severely punished in any way, no beatings, no head shaving, no denial of food, my only complain was that of being kept there for no reason. ... Many many more would say the same”.17
- Another woman described the difference between Magdalen Laundries and industrial schools as “... a big difference. A very big difference”. She said that at the Magdalen Laundries “there was no physical.
punishment, it was all mental really. We were never hit. I think they were afraid to hit us. I would hit back”. She also reported that women would in protest “go up to sit on the stairs, we went to Coventry, went and sat on the stairs and not do any work”. The punishment for this
would be that the woman would “not be let in for evening meal”. This “could go on a whole week, we were able to endure it because our friends brought us the food ... we were too crafty for them, they were praying the whole time ... some girls would stay there in the evening too in the dark, with no recreation”.18
- Another woman at a different Magdalen Laundry when asked if she had ever suffered physical or corporal punishment, said “no, no, not that. But it was just this big building and laundry and I had a terrible childhood and then I was grieving over specified bereavement”
Chapter 19, page 933 to 936
Sorry, it looks like the movie was inaccurate as to the level of abuse. Abuse occurred but it appears to be rare, about what is normal in most similar institutions, run by any organization.
36. A small number of women described physical punishment on at least one occasion.
- One woman described suffering a physical assault at the hands of 2 auxiliaries on the day of her entry to a Magdalen Laundry. She said that on arrival to the Magdalen Laundry:
“two ladies were standing there, not nuns but dressed in navy. I was left with those two”; and after being made to remove her clothing and stand on a stool, she described being “punched by
one of them, one side to another. I was dizzy, I kept saying I’m dizzy”.
She described the following morning as follows:
“I had to line up with the rest of the Magdalens for prayers,church, breakfast. A nun sitting on a high chair told the ‘3 new penitents to say your name’. I saw they were bruised too. I never ever saw another one, just that one time, never anything like that again. They would raise voices more than anything –
not hands”.20
- Another woman described physical contact on more than one occasion. Regarding her time in a Magdalen Laundry in the 1950s, she said:
“If you were talking you used to get a slap with a stick get on with work. It could be a nun or a woman who was there a long time ... if you were whispering the bigger girls might push you or
pull your hair”.21
- Another woman provided the following description of her experience of physical abuse at a Magdalen Laundry. She said that there were only two nuns in the Laundry, one “used to sit and watch over all the girls and there was another down the bottom floor checking it”. She said:
“I never saw a cane. There was a nun with a thick stick but she’d dig it at you. I never seen her draw it and hit anyone. They’d dig you with the cross too. And they used to pull their hair and box their face”.
Chapter 19, page 936-937
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)The Belfast telegraph
Feb 24, 2014
'Forum needed' for laundries women
Victims have been campaigning for an inquiry after investigations in the Republic of Ireland uncovered evidence of harsh conditions and callous treatment.
The laundries - institutions for single mothers detained through the courts or often moved in by their family or clergy for being sexually active - were run by Catholic religious orders.
A statement from OFMDFM said: "We recognise that there are women who were over the age of 18 when they entered the Magdalene laundry-type institutions and there is a need to provide them with a forum where their issues can be addressed and their experiences acknowledged."...
...Amnesty International Northern Ireland director Patrick Corrigan said the OFMDFM response would disappoint victims.
"When we brought local Magdalene survivors to Stormont Castle last June, ministers told us that they were about to receive this options paper. That means eight months have now passed without any further progress," he added.... MORE
smokey nj
(43,853 posts)I highly recommend it. You can watch it online.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_in_a_Cold_Climate
