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Judi Lynn

(160,662 posts)
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 04:57 AM Feb 2014

NSA phone data collection far more limited than had been disclosed

Source: McClatchy News

NSA phone data collection far more limited than had been disclosed
By KEN DILANIAN
Tribune Washington Bureau
February 9, 2014

WASHINGTON — Although U.S. intelligence officials have indicated since last summer that the National Security Agency was vacuuming up nearly every American telephone record for counter-terrorism investigations, officials acknowledged Friday that the spy agency collects data from less than a third of U.S. calls because it can't keep pace with cell phone usage.

In a speech last month, President Barack Obama called the bulk collection of telephone records the most controversial part of the debate over security and privacy sparked by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden's leaks of classified material. Obama announced plans to impose greater judicial review on the program and to limit how it can be used. But the NSA operation now seems far less pervasive than it appeared, raising questions about whether it is as essential a terrorist-fighting tool as the NSA and its supporters have argued.

Rather than sweeping in all U.S. call records, officials said, the NSA is gathering toll records from most domestic land line calls, but is incapable of collecting those from most cell phone or Internet calls. The details were first disclosed by The Washington Post.

The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because much of the program remains classified, said they did not correct the public record because they did not want to tip off potential adversaries to obvious gaps in the coverage.



Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/02/09/217514/nsa-phone-data-collection-far.html#storylink=cpy

46 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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NSA phone data collection far more limited than had been disclosed (Original Post) Judi Lynn Feb 2014 OP
lol pothos Feb 2014 #1
LOL we are really supposed to believe this? proudretiredvet Feb 2014 #34
All better now! Change has come Feb 2014 #2
And now the NSA goes on the offensive. joshcryer Feb 2014 #3
So they didn't want to tip off potential adversaries before neverforget Feb 2014 #4
It is not worse than we thought! SkatmanRoth Feb 2014 #5
Yeah. I've got your best interests at heart. Just hand all those unnecessary freedoms away JDPriestly Feb 2014 #43
Oh, I feel so much better now. Th1onein Feb 2014 #6
Definitely a relief, knowing this! JusticeForAll Feb 2014 #7
Obvious ploy to get a bigger budget JustABozoOnThisBus Feb 2014 #8
BTW.. this was not something the NSA was revealing in an attempt to quell the controversy. DCBob Feb 2014 #9
"Disclosed" just seems like the wrong word there. "Asserted" or "believed" or "fantasized" bemildred Feb 2014 #10
So it's up from 1/5 jakeXT Feb 2014 #11
Right, big brother JackInGreen Feb 2014 #12
And that 240-acre "hard drive" in Utah isn't really there, is it? PSPS Feb 2014 #13
That is just a heat mirage in the distance. RC Feb 2014 #27
I Had Long Wondered About That DallasNE Feb 2014 #14
That is total bullshit. sofa king Feb 2014 #15
SURE it is! (NOT) Demeter Feb 2014 #16
Marcy Wheeler, in two great posts, says bullshit Luminous Animal Feb 2014 #17
It is bullshit jsr Feb 2014 #21
Nothing to see here ...those are not the NSA you are looking for. L0oniX Feb 2014 #18
Pheww! All that hyperventilation and forced landing and lying to Congress was for nuthin' jsr Feb 2014 #19
lol Enrique Feb 2014 #31
I feel so much better now, truthisfreedom Feb 2014 #20
Minimizing The Crime By Minimizing The Impact - Misdirection To Minimize Public Outrage cantbeserious Feb 2014 #22
Disseminating dissinformation... PosterChild Feb 2014 #23
Sure. Born yesterday. anasv Feb 2014 #24
Yeah, I hate to break it to them, JoeyT Feb 2014 #25
Can we see how in sync Snowden is with Russia if he does not raise hell about not only Thinkingabout Feb 2014 #26
Well then, why don't we return his passport so he can leave, and see what he does then? RC Feb 2014 #28
If he would ask to return to the US to face his charges then he could return to the US. When Thinkingabout Feb 2014 #30
What access do you think he would have to Russia's workings to disseminate? TheKentuckian Feb 2014 #32
No, he is trapped in Russia because the US government pulled his passport. RC Feb 2014 #33
Let's talk facts. Snowden gai ed access to files in tbe NSA, copied those files, removed Thinkingabout Feb 2014 #39
Again get some facts. RC Feb 2014 #40
So you say. Thinkingabout Feb 2014 #41
"..." RC Feb 2014 #42
Please, please let us not bring up the "kill the messenger" method again. sadoldgirl Feb 2014 #35
So, not on topic tavalon Feb 2014 #37
Who me? ... Us? ... nah ... Wernothelpless Feb 2014 #29
Now, there's an expert on fellatio tavalon Feb 2014 #36
Breaking news: NSA claims it really isn't doing anything wrong. Maedhros Feb 2014 #38
I thought we all knew about this frwrfpos Feb 2014 #44
It started long before Darth Cheney signed in on his new Pearl Harbor wet dReam... Amonester Feb 2014 #46
#nsaliars blkmusclmachine Feb 2014 #45
 

proudretiredvet

(312 posts)
34. LOL we are really supposed to believe this?
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 03:32 PM
Feb 2014

From the mouths of those who ignored our right of privacy in total secrecy until they were caught. Then they tried to lie their way out of it until they couldn't any more. Now they want us to believe them. Hell No!!!!!

joshcryer

(62,287 posts)
3. And now the NSA goes on the offensive.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 06:05 AM
Feb 2014

Trying to make it seem like they're not spying on us enough.

Figured this would happen. It was only a matter of time.

Do not think this leak was a coincidence. It falls right after the fact that the Russians showed they were spying on our ambassadors.

SkatmanRoth

(843 posts)
5. It is not worse than we thought!
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 06:26 AM
Feb 2014
    That makes it A-Okay then.

    Who needs that old Fourth Amendment anyway?

      The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
43. Yeah. I've got your best interests at heart. Just hand all those unnecessary freedoms away
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 07:08 PM
Feb 2014

cause I'm gonna make you safe like you've never been safe.

Famous last promises.

History is full of such promises. It always ends badly.

JusticeForAll

(1,222 posts)
7. Definitely a relief, knowing this!
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 07:52 AM
Feb 2014

I expected to see Pravda as the news source....but, McClatchy? really?

Thank you for posting this article!

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,379 posts)
8. Obvious ploy to get a bigger budget
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 08:34 AM
Feb 2014

... and, "meta" data is not enough. They'll collect contents of voice calls and text messages as soon as the infrastructure can interpret and store it all.

If they're only collecting metadata, it's because that's all they can do technically.

They can do "better", and they will.

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
9. BTW.. this was not something the NSA was revealing in an attempt to quell the controversy.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 08:38 AM
Feb 2014

from the article:

"The NSA aims to build the technical capacity over the next few years to collect toll records from every domestic land line and cell phone call assuming Congress extends authority for Section 215 of the USA Patriot Act after it expires in June 2015.

Once the capacity is available, the agency would seek court orders to require telecommunications companies that do not currently deliver their records to the NSA to do so. The records contain phone numbers, times and lengths of each call, but not the content or anyone's name."

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
10. "Disclosed" just seems like the wrong word there. "Asserted" or "believed" or "fantasized"
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 09:34 AM
Feb 2014

I could live with, but disclosed implies it was true.

JackInGreen

(2,975 posts)
12. Right, big brother
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 10:17 AM
Feb 2014

tell me another one? I want another story, you know, about how we're safe and sound and no one is really being THAT bad.

 

RC

(25,592 posts)
27. That is just a heat mirage in the distance.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 02:41 PM
Feb 2014

Our government would never spy on us without our permission. We have the 4th Amendment to protect us, right? ... Right?

DallasNE

(7,404 posts)
14. I Had Long Wondered About That
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 11:29 AM
Feb 2014

Because before Snowden the news stories involved land line companies rather than a mix, although AT&T is now both. Even the gateway locations reflected on regional and thus landline carriers.

sofa king

(10,857 posts)
15. That is total bullshit.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 11:43 AM
Feb 2014

The ECHELON system has foreign countries--our allies--holding onto and snooping into our domestic calls. NSA itself may be able to claim that it doesn't grab or keep the data, but MI6 does, NATO nations do, ANZAC nations do, and it's all at NSA's fingertips with a simple request or, more likely, no request at all.

Do you know what happens when you have more information on your own people than you can use? YOUR ENEMIES USE IT AGAINST YOU. That personal, private information is far more useful to China than it is to us, so our domestic surveillance is their international espionage. Edward Snowden appears to be the perfect example: flagged by NSA as a potential traitor, but not important enough to do anything about, the Chinese appear to have activated him the moment the US dared to speak of Chinese human rights abuses. They didn't even have to steal that information from us, as we share it with countries much less capable of protecting the information--like Luxembourg, for example.

So the greatest intelligence coup the United States has left to it is the complete shutdown of all electronic domestic surveillance. If we were really smart, we would shut the project down, make the Chinese duplicate the spying effort, steal their product, and use it against our own people without the expense of generating the intelligence product.

Instead, we're paying every penny to supply the Chinese with the lists of turnable people that they need.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
16. SURE it is! (NOT)
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 12:06 PM
Feb 2014

Can't keep up...it must be budget time again....

They are so transparent about the wrong things.

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
25. Yeah, I hate to break it to them,
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 02:27 PM
Feb 2014

but "We aren't as bad as you think we are, we don't have the budget/competence." isn't exactly going to win them any points.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
26. Can we see how in sync Snowden is with Russia if he does not raise hell about not only
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 02:35 PM
Feb 2014

Russians monitoring and recording phone conversations but revealing them. If he does not rise up against the Russian spying then he just might be in with them.

 

RC

(25,592 posts)
28. Well then, why don't we return his passport so he can leave, and see what he does then?
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 02:46 PM
Feb 2014

Snowden is only there because our government trapped them there.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
30. If he would ask to return to the US to face his charges then he could return to the US. When
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 02:57 PM
Feb 2014

you have felony charges the US can pull your passport. If he is trapped in Russia it is of his own doing. It was not required for him to have the passport when he took the flight from Hong Kong to Russia since the airline he flew did not require the passport. Why in the hell did he choose to fly to Russia? Why did he fly to Hong Kong? This was moves on his part, perhaps he can look back and say it was not a good move but he trapped himself in Russia. Yep, he is probably in with Russia, he is not putting out information on Russia so he is capable of living in a country which has less respect for privacy than the US .

 

RC

(25,592 posts)
33. No, he is trapped in Russia because the US government pulled his passport.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 03:16 PM
Feb 2014

Russia was supposed to be only a layover point to elsewhere. Snowden had no intention of staying there.
Facts are your friend, Get some.
When I lived in Fargo ND and wanted to fly to Kansas City MO, why did I have to go to Minneapolis, before continuing on to KCMO?
Going back, the same thing. Why didn't I just fly from Fargo to Kansas City and back? There is nothing in Minneapolis for me.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
39. Let's talk facts. Snowden gai ed access to files in tbe NSA, copied those files, removed
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 05:28 PM
Feb 2014

Them from the NSA without permission and delivered them to people without security clearance and not within the channels he was supposed to use again without proper permission. He flew to Hong Kong and whole there admitted he had released information and was charged with espionage and theft which are felonies resulting in his passport being revoked. This is normal in cases of people with warrants issued in felony cases. He flew from Hong Kong to Moscow on a Russian airline and it would be landing in Russia. Had it have been Air France etc and if Snowden was allowed to board without a passport then the destination airport does not have to allow the plane to land and therefore would not allow him aboard without a valid passport. Snowden alone or without proper advise put himself in his current position. Can you name one person responsible for him flying to Hong Kong? Can you name one person responsible for him flying to Moscow. Ignorance of the laws is not a defense. Why did he choose to fly to Hong Kong instead of his projected destination? Perhaps if he was willing to give information to work a plea bargain things may be different, it is his choice.

 

RC

(25,592 posts)
40. Again get some facts.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 06:06 PM
Feb 2014

This whole exposure is in reality about the excesses of the NSA, not what Snowden did. All Snowden did was pull the covers back and let the world see the criminality the NSA is engaged in.
If the NSA were being run as it should, there would not be much evidence of wrong doing for Snowden to take and you'd then have a case. As it turn out the NSA is all but out of control and in wholesale violation of it's own charter, several articles of the US Constitution, not to mention, International law.

sadoldgirl

(3,431 posts)
35. Please, please let us not bring up the "kill the messenger" method again.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 03:47 PM
Feb 2014

It appears on enough posts and is irrelevant to this one.
So first the President tells us that he will change the NSA tactics, but by so little that it amounts to a placebo, then we get a leak that they cannot keep up with us. Great propaganda, no change.
Even if true, everyone who might disturb the status quo and may become a popular political figure will have his/her future endangered. After all 70% of the NSA budget goes to private corporations, which in itself looks scary to me.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
38. Breaking news: NSA claims it really isn't doing anything wrong.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 05:28 PM
Feb 2014
The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because much of the program remains classified, said they did not correct the public record because they did not want to tip off potential adversaries to obvious gaps in the coverage.


I am disinclined to take these anonymous officials at their word.
 

frwrfpos

(517 posts)
44. I thought we all knew about this
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 07:14 PM
Feb 2014

and that its no big deal...and boxes!


The fascist state of America continues unabated

Amonester

(11,541 posts)
46. It started long before Darth Cheney signed in on his new Pearl Harbor wet dReam...
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 02:07 AM
Feb 2014

About the time phone companies (now Corporations) started collecting phone data for billing their customers.

Then Al Capone & friends started terrorizing innocents...

Then Adolf Hitler started getting mad...

Then Bush the elder started making deals with him...

Then...

Nothing will stop it except the end of this world as we know it.

But I agree we can keep asking....

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