Bernie Sanders was right, and Democrats are running on his message. But will the party listen?
(snip)
Beyond health care, Booker has rolled out a plan to implement a jobs guarantee, Gillibrand and Booker want to legalize marijuana and they, along with Harris, have sworn off corporate PAC money. That first one is more than even Sanders dared to call for back in 2016; the latter two are straight out of his playbook. Even Sanders push for labor law reform, a dream of activists that didnt happen under the Obama administration (despite Democrats having 60 votes in the Senate), has garnered its fair share of backers.
Plenty of skeptics particularly conservative ones welcome a race amongst the 2020 hopefuls to out-Bernie each other as a signal that Democrats are intent on driving themselves into inevitable electoral doom. But, though its hard to square with a country that sent Donald Trump to the White House and a big Republican majority to Congress, these policy moves make good political sense.
Majorities are now in favor of pot legalization, for instance, while a plurality favors a nationalized health care system. On many economic matters, there is hard evidence that the conservative governance America is getting is not what most voters actually want.
And, perhaps more to the point, the Obama years proved that Republicans are going to portray Democrats as wild-eyed socialists no matter how incremental and market-friendly the reforms they propose are. So they might as well go big; the response from the opposition will be the same either way.
(snip)
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/bernie-sanders-was-right-democrats-are-running-his-message-will-ncna882091
Squinch
(51,095 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,596 posts)yurbud
(39,405 posts)when they back charters, repetitive standardized testing, and anything else hedge fund managers or trust fund babies can think up to privatize public schools?
No matter how big any Wall Street donor is, they can still only vote ONCE (for now).
SharonClark
(10,014 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,596 posts)KPN
(15,683 posts)Lifelong registered and voting Dem here. These differences are important ones regardless of the source of a particular article. The party will get votes if it merits votes -- it's that simple.
Uncle Joe
(58,596 posts)Gothmog
(146,029 posts)This article makes me smile https://www.economist.com/united-states/2018/06/09/berned-out
Rumpled, crumpled, Trumpled
The energy on the left is focused on opposing Mr Trumps attack on liberal democracy, not on carrying forward Mr Sanderss revolution. The success of moderate candidates in the Democratic primaries suggests this is making the party more pragmatic and mindful of party unity than Mr Sanders, an ideologue who is not a Democratic Party member, might like.
Uncle Joe
(58,596 posts)I believe the author of that article is out of touch and writes or talks in the same language as Trump.
Gothmog
(146,029 posts)All of sanders proposals require a magical voter revolution where millions or billions or trillions or may gillions of new voters show up and force the GOP to be reasonable and not block standers silly proposals. Magic does not work in the real world. Sanders proposals are not popular with voters who actually vote in the real world which is why the magical voter revolution failed. https://www.vox.com/2016/4/25/11497822/sanders-political-revolution-vote
In the real world the conditions are simply not right for a voter revolution https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/04/heres-why-i-never-warmed-bernie-sanders/
The destruction of the Southern slave economy following the Civil War
The New Deal
The first of these was 50+ years in the making and, in the end, required a bloody, four-year war to bring to a conclusion. The second happened only after an utter collapse of the economy, with banks closing, businesses failing, wages plummeting, and unemployment at 25 percent. Thats what it takes to bring about a revolution, or even something close to it.
Were light years away from that right now. Unemployment? Yes, 2 or 3 percent of the working-age population has dropped out of the labor force, but the headline unemployment rate is 5 percent. Wages? Theyve been stagnant since the turn of the century, but the average family still makes close to $70,000, more than nearly any other country in the world. Health care? Our system is a mess, but 90 percent of the country has insurance coverage. Dissatisfaction with the system? According to Gallup, even among those with incomes under $30,000, only 27 percent are dissatisfied with their personal lives.
Like it or not, you dont build a revolution on top of an economy like this. Period. If you want to get anything done, youre going to have to do it the old-fashioned way: through the slow boring of hard wood.
Without some external event as described above, there will be no voter revolution. Millions or billions or trillions of new voters are not going to rise up and help sanders pass these unrealistic proposals in the real world.
In my opinion, Sanders is not likely to run in 2020 and if Sanders does run, he will not be the nominee. Sanders will have to release his tax returns to get onto the ballot in a number of blue states due to proposed and pending ballot access laws. Sanders would also face backlash due to stunts like the attack on Congressman John Lewis at the National Convention (the video of this stunt and the fact that Sanders refused to stop this stunt will not play well with the base of the party). The Our Revolution idiots and Nina Turner are generating a great deal of anger on the part of real Democrats towards Sanders and his proposals. There are a large number of Democrats who blame sanders for Trump's victory. You can count me in that group who blame sanders for trump's victory. In addition, a large majority of Democrats live in the real world and will not accept sanders unrealistic proposals. I seriously doubt that sanders runs and I am sure that he will not get the nomination. Again, there will be no magical voter revolution where millions or billions or trillions of new voters rise up to support Sanders. Without a magical revolution in the real world, this proposal is not going to go anywhere
Uncle Joe
(58,596 posts)and somewhat dated.
Having said that, the Vox article doesn't mention "magic" and for that matter is not in opposition to the premise of the OP article.
(snip)
You can debate why the poorest voters aren't supporting Sanders wholeheartedly. But the fact of the matter is that they aren't. And winning over poor people who do vote seems like an important prerequisite to winning over poor people who don't.
The bottom line is that Bernie Sanders and his campaign have identified an intriguing electoral strategy, but it's becoming pretty clear they're not going to be the ones who prove whether or not it works.
This should be good news for Sanders's supporters: Just because it looks very unlikely that this particular candidate will win the nomination this particular time, that doesn't mean that a different candidate won't be able to succeed with a similar platform and strategy.
And if the Sanders supporters committed to the political revolution devote their energy after this election to figuring out how to reach the "poor people (who) don't vote," that could be a game changer.
https://www.vox.com/2016/4/25/11497822/sanders-political-revolution-vote
As for the second article, the author's view of major political revolutions in regards to time and space is too static or limited, without taking into account the increased speed of information's effect on political change.
As the speed of transferable information increased between the two primary events; Civil War and New Deal listed by the OP in the Mother Jones article, time was decreased before cause and effect occurred.
The ascendancy of the Millennial Generation arising in the same moments as the birth of the Information Age will go even further to accelerate the awareness and subsequent change process.
Gothmog
(146,029 posts)Sanders campaigned solely on the concept that his proposals would be magically adopted due to a magical voter revolution. Without that magical voter revolution, even Sanders admitted that his platform could not be adopted https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/articles/2016-04-15/bernie-sanders-bad-delegate-math-and-fantasy-revolution
Magical thinking does not work in the real world. Sanders has failed to adopt any meaningful legislation in the real world including in his own state but sanders is willing to heckle the Democratic Party and claim that his magical proposals are realistic.
I am not the only one to note that Sanders would not be able to get his proposals adopted in the real world. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/21/1483791/-Imagine-Bernie-Sanders-wins-the-White-House-Then-what Without a magical voter revolution, the premise of the OP is correct.
Can you enlighten us as to how many new voters are necessary for sanders magical voter revolution to work? Will the magical voter revolution take millions or billions or trillions of new voters?
Uncle Joe
(58,596 posts)2017-2018 dynamics as stated by the current dated article in the OP.
"Billion or trillions of new voters" come on Gothmog, surely you can do better than that.
Gothmog
(146,029 posts)Sanders has not accomplished any major legislative accomplishments in the real world because magic does not work in the real world. Sanders' endorsement have been largely meaningless and no one is paying attention to either Our Revolution or Sanders.
Here are some more facts for you to ignore https://www.economist.com/united-states/2018/06/09/berned-out
The most fervent Sandernistas tended not to be Democrats at all. They were college kids and independents, many of whom subsequently drifted off to a third-party nominee. A middle-aged Sandernista in the crowd in Los Angeles, Jacinta, said she voted for the Green candidate in 2016, considered Democrats and Republicans as birds of a feather, and was frustrated that neither backs free movement across the southern border. Most Sanders voters, by contrast, were loyal Democrats who simply didnt much like Mrs Clinton. Having little attachment to Mr Sanderss statist ideas, they nonetheless swung grumblingly behind her. This helps explode the second myth: that the Democrats have veered to the left, where the rumpled Mr Sanders awaits them.
Do you really think that Sanders will file in 2016 tax returns?
Uncle Joe
(58,596 posts)is as night and day.
The OP article cites numerous links to other polls or articles to make its' reason based contention.
Your economist reads like an embittered opinion piece that speaks in the same demagogue style language as Trump.
Gothmog
(146,029 posts)The voters are reject Sanders and Our Revolution endorsed candidates. How is sanders winning in the real world?
The real world is a nice place. Magic does not work in the real world but hard work does.
emulatorloo
(44,276 posts)and almost daily gaffes from Bernie. I supported him in 2016 for President. His statements and behavior since the election and the hotheads he surrounds him with leads me to believe he lacks the temperament and judgement to be President. I doubt I am the only former supporter out there.
He is a great Senator for Vermont.
Uncle Joe
(58,596 posts)I believe Bernie to be among if not the most grounded political leaders in D.C. today.
Bernie is wise, his judgement strong and he's a proven leader of the first order.
Whether Bernie runs for President again or not I will support him.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,720 posts)Why can't the US?
Sanders' proposals are standard policies throughout Scandanaiva and much of the EU and beyond.
Why do you scoff at policies that would make life better for all Americans?
Gothmog
(146,029 posts)Sanders has zero meaningful legislative accomplishments in the real world because all of his proposals require magic to be adopted. Sanders campaigned on a magical voter revolution where millions or billions or trillions or perhaps even more new voters would show up and force the GOP to be reasonable. That never happened in the real world. Sanders tried and failed to get single payer adopted in vermont.
I like living in the real world and I do not believe in magic
Gothmog
(146,029 posts)This makes me smile https://secure.actblue.com/donate/kamalaendorsement
She is one of the people who inspired me to run for office, and I am proud to accept her endorsement. I will continue to lead the charge in standing up against the tide of hostility and anger and always listen to the concerns of those in our district. Show your support and donate right now to help our campaign lead this change.
This endorsement is meaningful as compared to Our Revolution. Sri was the candidate attacked by Our Revolution because he is Asian and had a funny first name. Sanders endorsements are not carrying any weight in the real world but candidates are happy to be endorsed by Senator Harris
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)That's funny , whose the Treasury Secretary and why isn't he in Prison.
Gothmog
(146,029 posts)OUr Revolution and Sanders has a horrible record on endorsement. Senator Harris has a great record (especially when compared to sanders and Our Revolution https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/08/kamala-harris-ballots-california-634119
Just three Democrats backed by Harris lost or were heading to likely defeats, with elections officials still counting provisional and mail-in ballots.
Her heavy hand in Californias primary involving Democrats at all levels here reflects the freshman senators concerted emphasis on home-state maintenance, even as she travels throughout the country raising money for Democrats in higher-profile contests and expands her still-budding political network ahead of a potential presidential campaign.
Uncle Joe
(58,596 posts)bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)Gothmog
(146,029 posts)Sanders and Our Revolutions are really failures at endorsing candidates who can win. Senator Harris has a far better track record.
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)Bernie was right about campaign contributions. She should return Steve's money and apologize for allowing him to profit from foreclosures and not face prison time , you think Russian is going to let her off the hook for that one. the trolls will be all over that during her campaign.
Gothmog
(146,029 posts)This amuses me
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)she saw it so late in the game. https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/bernie-sanders-was-right-democrats-are-running-his-message-will-ncna882091
Gothmog
(146,029 posts)The attacks on Senator Harris by sanders supporters amuse me
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)It's a little late for 120,000 home owners that got evicted for Mnuchins gain.
Gothmog
(146,029 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,596 posts)the results as of June 5th
https://ourrevolution.com/results/
Gothmog
(146,029 posts)I saw that Nixon in New York is down big time
Uncle Joe
(58,596 posts)The future and staying power of Our Revolution is for the long term and not dependent on any one race; even in New York, this is a marathon not a sprint.
Gothmog
(146,029 posts)I do not believe in magic or sanders. Our revolution is a racist organization in my county that attacked an Asian candidate because he is "not one of us" and our Revolution did not want "one of them" on the ballot.
Texas will turn blue but Our Revolution will play no role in this. Our Revolution will nor survive so long as Nina Turner is involved.
Sanders will have to release tax reurns to run in 2020. I doubt that sanders will run and Our Revolution will survive this
kamalafan
(63 posts)At all.
It has nothing to do with what you describe and saying how "he isn't one of us" and where you got that from I have no idea but it is false. Please read the article because this is what it's about;
https://www.chron.com/news/politics/article/Sri-Preston-Kulkarni-congress-cocaine-fort-bend-12628329.php
Gothmog
(146,029 posts)I was there as were a number of other real Texas democrats. Juanita Jean's husband was also at this meeting
Gothmog
(146,029 posts)He introduced himself in Hebrew to the Jewish Caucus