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BootinUp

(47,147 posts)
Thu Mar 21, 2024, 04:13 PM Mar 21

Have We Reached Peak AI? - Where's your Ed at

Posted on mastodon by @jeridansky@sfba.social

So many people in my timeline recommended Ed Zitron’s extremely skeptical look at AI — and they were right. It’s a terrific piece!

Lots of good bits to quote, but I'll pick this one: "Sam Altman desperately needs you to believe that generative AI will be essential, inevitable & intractable, because if you don't, you'll suddenly realize that trillions of dollars of market capitalization & revenue are being blown on something remarkably mediocre."


https://www.wheresyoured.at/peakai/

#AI #ChatGPT #LLM


Link to mastodon post


14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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erronis

(15,257 posts)
1. Thanks - looks fascinating.
Thu Mar 21, 2024, 04:25 PM
Mar 21

I don't think we've come anywhere close to realizing the benefits of machine learning (including LLMs, etc.) but we may be reaching some saturation as to the marketing of "AI" into everything. I'm not sure you can buy a low end laptop without it claiming to have AI baked in.

And with the adoption of increasing the underlying models that form the basis for the GPT-type algorithms comes the obvious loss of privacy. Every platform, every computer, every app that wants to suck your private information in to improve their models are, without your explicit opt-in, violating your privacy.

Diraven

(519 posts)
2. The hype is really all around GPT
Thu Mar 21, 2024, 04:38 PM
Mar 21

Which is just for language modelling, and which happens to have become complex enough now that it looks smart because it can communicate close to human level by imitating human-produced language and images (which is another form of communication if you think about it). But that's all it does. All the predictions that AI is now about to take over anything that doesn't have to do with language is pure speculation, and if people are investing in it just because GPT and AI generated images look so cool now then they are about to lose their money.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,001 posts)
3. Current AI is to future AI like plastic food-like substances (cheese slices) are to pheasant under glass. . nt
Thu Mar 21, 2024, 05:02 PM
Mar 21

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,001 posts)
4. Peak? You ain't seen nothin' yet. There will be another AI winter but
Thu Mar 21, 2024, 05:06 PM
Mar 21



... the season after that will be spectacular, as much as current "AI" is spectacular compared to 1990s AI. The current "peak" is only an intermediate plateau. Much more to come. These winters can last years. Suppose there is a crash among AI stocks in 2025 and it hits a kind of a bottom in 2026. Keep an eye on it then, and start nibbling at stocks in 2027 to catch the next wave which might be 2028 or 2032 or ... who knows, certainly not me. Timing is entirely unpredictable, but the next wave will be stunning compared to the current wave.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_winter

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,001 posts)
6. So? You are being opaque as to your reasoning and even your position
Thu Mar 21, 2024, 05:38 PM
Mar 21

We have been given no idea if you agree with the article or not.

Nor have you stated your own outlook.

It is simple to run down assertions when you don't explain what your objections are, what your own views are, what you think are perhaps different facts, and no explanation of what you might think flaws in the reasoning are.

So simple even a 1990s AI program could do it.

5. I honestly don't find that to be compelling
Reasoning at all.


Just state a negative and stop. Period.

So.

BootinUp

(47,147 posts)
7. I agree with article. For some months
Thu Mar 21, 2024, 06:04 PM
Mar 21

I have occasionally posted about my skepticism about LLM and where it will/ will not go. I would like to note that you have not indicated whether you have glanced at, or read the article.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,001 posts)
8. I generally agree with the article. That does not contradict my conjecture.
Thu Mar 21, 2024, 06:09 PM
Mar 21

You STILL have not explained your dismissal of my post. You've only slammed the "reasoning" without saying why.

The article basically says there is a lot of hype about AI currently. That is true. The fact there was a lot of hype about AI before the last couple of AI winters did not stop the current breakthroughs, which have greatly surpassed previous "peaks".

After criticizing the hype, the article states "I don't believe things are likely to improve" and like you gives no explanation. Predicting no progress is easy and almost always wrong. That is where I disagree with the article.

The only other conjecture about the future is the claim that the whole tech industry will suffer job losses. Pretty weak sauce. It is a mistake to conflate "tech" with "AI" to that great degree.

BootinUp

(47,147 posts)
11. I am somewhat familiar with the on again off again cycles of AI hype.
Thu Mar 21, 2024, 09:23 PM
Mar 21

I tend to make my points without beating around the bush. It is rare that you will see me type 2 actual graphs here, lol.

AI LLM technology has known issues, like the hallucination issue, and other anomalies. And based on expert opinions I have read, these issues can not be resolved using current practices for optimizing training. Another "breakthrough" is going to be required. I think you acknowledge that.

Here's the thing, the people behind the "AI Hype", are avoiding the subject, or glossing over it. It is my opinion they are leading us into an ugly place. A place where power usage in this country increases drastically and cancels out the advances we have made with clean energy. (Have you read about Altman saying we need a power technology breakthough too?) And where misinformation is greatly amplified. Other issues, like accuracy, will keep the technology from accomplishing many of the stated goals of the AI community.

I don't think the current AI LLM tech is going to prove very useful, certainly not where accuracy is required. I have a fair understanding of general computer programming, and some of its challenges. That includes the use of databases, and statistics. I am a self taught developer for small to medium size db applications. If we actually analyze what an LLM is doing, versus, what it would need to do for a breakthrough, it does seem, that it would be a different beast. So maybe like you say, the next AI spring. Who knows, maybe never.

So if it is never, or if it is 10 years, don't you see that we are going to waste natural resources, and possibly create more problems than we solve with this generation of technology?

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,001 posts)
12. I generally agree, but I think LLMs will prove useful and energy concerns are not a huge worry
Thu Mar 21, 2024, 10:01 PM
Mar 21

I think they will be downsized at the same time as smart phones and cars are upsizing in compute power. If we are directing the device to search for a movie that we remember a scene from we don't expect it to read our minds. Rather, like a human assistant or a friend, we will have a back and forth with it. It will be perhaps a little more prone to mistake words and have to ask for clarification more often compared to a server base LLM.

Another class of applications of ANN tech are one's that learn simple patterns where perfection is not expected. If you are driving your car (not self-driving because you don't trust that, say) and you make a turn to go home, the car might pipe up and say "This is Thursday, don't you usually pick up something at the supermarket for, like, date night with your wife?" It may have picked up clues from the pattern of many Thursdays. Maybe the third Thursdays are something else and the car hasn't noticed that pattern yet. No big deal between you and the car.

It seems that the energy usage is of some concern, but not as much as feared. I think the blockchain systems, especially for crypto mining, are a much bigger concern. https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/10/23911059/ai-climate-impact-google-openai-chatgpt-energy

To be sure, de Vries’ writes that Google Search one day using as much electricity as Ireland thanks to energy-hungry AI is an unlikely worst-case scenario. It’s based on an assumption that Google would shell out tens of billions of dollars for 512,821 of Nvidia’s A100 HGX servers, for which he writes that Nvidia does not have the production capacity.

The paper includes a little more realistic scenario calculating the potential energy consumption of the 100,000 AI servers Nvidia is expected to deliver this year. Running at full capacity, those servers might burn through 5.7 to 8.9 TWh of electricity a year. That’s “almost negligible” in comparison to data centers’ historical estimated annual electricity use of 205 TWh, de Vries writes. In an email to The Verge, NVIDIA says that its products are energy efficient with each new generation.


People will get used to not relying on AI, but being glad because it can be helpful.

BootinUp

(47,147 posts)
13. That article is 6 months old.
Thu Mar 21, 2024, 10:10 PM
Mar 21

The statements Altman made, I reference one about needing a power breakthrough, are more recent, as are many other articles I have seen. Don't ask me to hunt them down rt now.

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