Then there's no stopping them. They need to get out there, register voters, talk to fence-sitters, and get them to the polls this November IF they want to see the kind of change they're hoping for. Only through Congress will they get the change they need. Camping out and confronting militaristic police brigades grabs a few headlines, but it doesn't make a dent in how Wall Street is buying our government. Only through the electoral process will that happen.

to the left" we got a bunch of progressives urging other progressives to give up on politics and the political process -- thereby handing it over to the tea baggers.

Brilliant.

A lot of the OWS peeps are either pro-Ron Paul or anti-government...or both. They are the ones who often claim that "the parties are the same." God love them and their fight but, unfortunately, I don't think OWS is very helpful in the real world.

most fervant supporters of occupy in my city, I have observed characteristics I had only associated with wingnuts. And that is believing anything, no matter how bat shit crazy, if they see it on the internet.

If you wanted to come up with a way to sabotage a movement by coming up with a giant pointless time sucker, it would be consensus and the never ending GAs

Without leaders to speak for the group in some form, then you have no public face to denounce the idiots who infiltrate and do dumb shit like burning flags, breaking windows, etc.

Maybe having leaders makes you feel a little less pure, but they're necessary for solid organizing, and it can be done in a democratic manner. The civil right movement had them. The antiwar movement had them.

And the rhetoric I hear about being so 'above' voting for 'politicians' is just naive.
Political change isn't an art project. You can protest with millions til the cows come home, but if the folks in power aren't on your side and you don't have your guys in office, then you accomplish nothing.

the campaign financing is rigged and the media is rigged, then what?

It's amazing that the election fraud we saw in Ohio in '04 vanished in '08...the big reason? A Democratic Governor and Secretary of State. If the machines are soooo rigged that Democrats win election, how are there still Democrats in elected office? Yes, elections need to be closely monitored and controlled where possible. The way to do that starts at the grassroots with organizing and getting competent, progressive people elected to local election boards (it's a lot harder to steal a smaller election than a bigger one) and other offices...make government work and use that as the model to drive out the wingnuts and libertarians. For the past 30 plus years the right wing has focused on taking over from within and have met little resistance. They've quietly been infiltrating school boards and any and all offices that they can get...marginalizing moderates and Democrats along the way. If the system is going to change, it needs to start from the bottom up.

Bill Mahrer nailed it...we all like the idea of a vocal opposition but it needs to be more pro-active in the political process and those who want to dismiss it only marginalize themselves further. Giving up by saying the machines are rigged concedes defeat to the very asshats who need to be removed far from power...

Because the Democrats have really taken Wall Street to task for all their massive crimes against the American people. Oh wait, no they haven't. They haven't prosecuted anybody, even when they had a filibuster proof majority. In fact, the Obama administration seems more interested in going after medical marijuana than it does in going after Wall Street. And the Dems sure do like those checks they get from Wall Street.

Oh well, back to camping in parks. And Bill, if at any time you want to step out of your ivory tower and put your multi-million dollar salary and fame to good use instead of just talking on TV, you're welcome to come and join us in the streets. You can bring your bong if you want, just don't let the Obama administration know.

...investigation into the financial meltdown and Wall Street's roll in the mess. Unfortunately, Congress is still playing games and underfunding the effort.

God damn...sometimes I wish Ron Paul would be elected so his fanatical supporters would FINALLY understand that in our checks and balances system ONE person, POTUS or not, can only do so much. If Congress won't help--and they would NOT help Paul--NOTHING can move forward! THEN maybe you'd FINALLY understand.

Sitting it out and letting the corporatist teabaggers have it all does no one any good.
No one's saying to blindly back Democrats and let them off the hook.

And so far, that's the only thing that has gotten anybody to notice. So Maher can shove his bullshit advice up his ass. Ta ta.

Start with joining your local Dem Committee or run for office.

The Tea Party took over the Republican Party, so why can't OWS take over the Dem Party? Is OWS incompetent to do that?

I agree with Maher, if OWS can't translate its movement into a political force, it will NEVER get its vision enacted. Whether OWS likes it or not, politics is about getting the power to implement your vision. The Tea Party is doing it for the Billionaire Bullies, so why can' OWS make the Dem Party more Progressive?

And still set up camp in parks. because so far, that's the only thing that has gotten anybody in the political establishment to even notice there's a problem with income inequality. So why would you and Maher want to put a stop to that?

No one is opposed to efforts to make the Democratic Party more progressive. I just get annoyed when rich television pundits chatting away in safety feel they know what is best for OWS. OWS started, endured, and grew without any help from Maher. And it changed the national discourse all on its own. So thanks for the advice Mr. Maher, but maybe you should go back to worrying about poor, oppressed Rush Limbaugh and the mean advertising boycott against him.

We have elected Democrats many times before and even when we have had majorities they caved to the far-right time and time again. It is time for people to realize that we not only have to work inside the system, we need to work outside the system as well. If you want to elect Democrats there are plenty of organizations focused on electing Democrats, let Occupy continue to operate outside the established system and continue to push for change in the streets.

Occupy isn't outside the system, they are just peeing outside.

Fer cryin out loud.

Meet George Martinez, Occupy’s Rapping Brooklynite Congressional Candidate

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/06/george-martinez-occupy-wall-street-rapping-candidate-for-congress.html

But this over rated bozo thinks he's a leader. He must have read about Martinez recently. We need thousands more like him.

many actions. I really hate when they are compared to Tea Partiers. The tea party was FUNDED. That made it easy to get people elected in todays money buys elections process. OWS must find another way to get people elected since they have little money and are actually against the status quo methods of the political process. Exposure is everything. The tea party was heavily covered by the media for every little event. Heck they held shouting matches at town halls and were on TV every night. OWS holds fund raising events, host speaker events and teach-ins, organizes rallies and camps and so much more but the media never show up. That is the problem.

Funding and media coverage is why tea partiers succeeded. OWS get none of that yet are criticize as if it is their fault the media won't cover their successes.


OCCUPY THE MEDIA!

... without the Occupy movement we'd still be talking about the national debt instead of income inequality.

And to use the "success" of the Tea Party as a contrast? Good grief, Bill, have you been asleep for the last two years? The Tea Party isn't anything but Dick Armey's money.

Yes, the Occupy movement needs to evolve. No, they haven't failed.

Last edited Sat Jun 9, 2012, 09:26 AM - Edit history (1)

If one has a great idea for Occupy, it might be more constructive to attend a local GA and bring it up. If you really can't stand them, start something different.

The timely actions of this passionate movement has done more to change the national dialogue in less than a year than all of the online political belching, and I certainly include my own, has in the past decade.

Why criticize this movement? Is it helpful? Personally, I will forever admire their courage and commitment. I will also be greatful to them for dragging my old ass out into the street.

or on private property equals free rent and free food. Does not accomplish a thing. Initially it was a viable movement and people were taking notice about their cause. Now, they are just an annoyance costing resources that we don't have, at least here in Oakland. Give it up or get organized and get the rift raft and trouble makers out. Then, people might take it seriously again.

Our old top down ways are failing. Again I ask: would it not be more constructive to support a group of frustrated people doing what they can than to stand on the sidelines and pontificate? Perhaps you could begin a movement more worthy or more focused or more organized. That would be great!

We will probably need the comming together of many allied groups to get the job done.

But instead they send in the storm troopers who scream no camping at the top of their lungs while hurling tear gas and night sticks. You know, because that's obviously the sane response. So why the heck should I care if they're getting free rent or food, good on them at least somebody is getting something other than the rich scum bags at the top.

Bill makes the Tea Party sound like a grassroots movement instead of the Koch-sponsored Faux-News inspired Dick Armey of useful idiots that it is.

You nailed it on the head, Mr. Eden.

Maher gets what the robber barons on Wall Street have done to the economy right, but only skirts over when they've already done to politics. They have bought more than congressmen and state legislators. Perhaps they also bought some Supreme Court justices in order to get the Citizens Ruling that will allow them to buy elections with all of their free $peech.

Occupy is not about supporting a political party. It is about using the cultural heritage of America that favors democracy in order to create something entirely new. The occupy movement isn't about electing Democrats, it's about being democrats. They may be just a little ahead of themselves, but they know that American democracy is on life support. The patient may die regardless of who wins the election. The patient may even die before the election.

American democracy has never been more than a work in progress, but that is true of democracy in general ever since even before Athens, ever since a group of Cro-Magons, when considering an important decision affecting the entire tribe, looked at each other and said, "Well, let's talk it over and then vote on it." A free and open discussion of the issues followed by a vote under the rules of universal suffrage and one man/one vote doesn't sound like the sort of thing the Koch brothers have in mind for America's future. A free and fair election can't be for sale to the highest bidder. The public forum is not part of the market place.

It might help if more people register to vote and vote our way. Then again, they may turn out to be voters swayed by what money can buy rather than by a public discussion of the candidates and issues. What money will buy in 2012 is a suppression of public discussion, and in its place will be a televised discussion among the elites of Wall Street and their stooges running for office about the issues that are important to the elite and how those issues should be resolved of the elite.

That is what democracy is up against this year. Electing Romney and his right wing allies will definitely be a death knell of democracy. Re-electing President Obama may help preserve democracy, but democracy also needs protection from one who signed a law authorizing indefinite detention and who sees fit to assassinate American citizens whom he believes are enemies of the United States. Nevertheless, the re-election of Obama buys time to do something about the present crisis before push comes to shove. That is why I am voting for Obama.

We need the occupy movement because it is American democracy in waiting, the movement that will preserve democracy underground during the long, dark winter of corporate dictatorship.

... and this post of yours deserves its own thread.

PS
You're one of the writers I admired when I was introduced to DU a decade ago by Scubadude (an old college buddy of mine).

Everything flows from that. If they eventually get meaningful reform, then they will be able to get the other things.