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TomCADem

(17,380 posts)
Sat Jul 4, 2020, 06:23 PM Jul 2020

Carnegie Mellon Lecture: Ordinary Men as Holocaust Perpetrators

Interesting lecture discussing how ordinary people in Germany not only participated, but participated in the genocide of Jews and others during WW2. Today, you see how Republicans respond to every problem by identifying a scapegoat and appealing to racism, anti-semitism, etc. At a certain, their followers will be conditioned to embrace a "final solution" that attempts to "solve" the various problems by eliminating the designated scapegoats.

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bobbieinok

(12,858 posts)
3. Eichmann captured in Argentina in 1960 by Mossad, executed in Jerusalem in 1962
Sat Jul 4, 2020, 07:11 PM
Jul 2020

There was a great deal of controversy over whether it was 'proper' or legitimate to hunt him down, kidnap him, and then execute him.

Sort of a 'isn't this victors punishing the defeated years after the war is over. Only barbaric societies in ancient times do that'

As I recall, that argument and the controversy led to her writing the book

And then her book and she herdelf became the focus of international controversy.

Now I wonder---was there so much controversy not only because she was Jewish but possibly more importantly because she was a woman DARING to have an opinion and then actually defending it in public.

bobbieinok

(12,858 posts)
4. This book was published in 1996. It grew out of Goldhagen's 1994 dissertation, which won a national
Sat Jul 4, 2020, 07:31 PM
Jul 2020

Hiscdissertation won a national prize

The book was a sensation in both Germany and the US. It too was the focus of great controversy. Partly because he's Jewish?

The commonly accepted idea was that most ordinary Germans knew nothing about the Holocaust.

Goldhagen, however, contended that not only did most ordinary Germans know about it, they willingly participated in it. That anti-semitism was an age-old part of German history and culture. And you have to admit--when you realize how extremely anti-semitic Luther was, you have to think Goldhagen might have a point.

Note--I was teaching German at tne time the book was published and followed both the German and American discussions.

Yes indeed, A VERY IMPORTANT BOOK

Eta---Wikipedia has a long article about the book

appalachiablue

(41,102 posts)
7. I checked out Goldhagen's writing on Wiki, so thanks.
Sun Jul 5, 2020, 06:46 AM
Jul 2020

The title and premise of 'Ordinary Men' I find objectionable, like another attempt to try to normalize or excuse killers.

appalachiablue

(41,102 posts)
6. Christopher R. Browning, speaking on his book, 'Ordinary Men'
Sun Jul 5, 2020, 12:18 AM
Jul 2020

Christopher R. Browning, Frank Porter Graham Professor of History Emeritus, UNC Chapel Hill

Dr. Browning reflects on his book Ordinary Men and developments in Holocaust history twenty-five years after its publication. It is the story of Reserve Police Battalion 101 of the German Order Police, which was responsible for mass shootings and roundups of Jewish people for deportation to Nazi death camps in 1942.

It argues that most of the men of RPB 101 were not fanatical Nazis but ordinary middle-aged men who committed these atrocities out of the group dynamics of conformity, deference to authority, role adaptation, and the altering of moral norms to justify their actions. While the book discusses a specific unit, its general argument is that most people are susceptible to the pressure of a group setting and committing actions they would never do of their own volition.

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