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Baitball Blogger

(46,770 posts)
Wed Jan 1, 2020, 11:47 AM Jan 2020

We saw Frozen 2. Some observations about decisions that were too tactical. SPOILERS

For the most part, if you like the original Frozen then you must see Frozen 2. I would not try to dissuade you. I just thought the music was less inspired. In that regard, Olaf had the song that best resonated. It was about knowing everything once he got older.

Also, cute twists with the concept that water has memory.

Okay. Here's the thing that soured on me. Elsa is depicted as an idyllic blonde, blue eyed nymph-like character -- which was okay, at first, because it is a story of the North. But Frozen 2 is about her origin story and there are leaps of faith. First of all, both girls are children of the same parents. The father is a dirty blonde man in youth, but brown haired in mature life. The mother -- and here's the spoiler -- is from an indigenous race that lives in the Northern region. All the indigenous people have that eskimoish-indian appearance of high cheekbones and a pale yellow skin-color. But Elsa's mother looks NOTHING like them. She looks more Caucasian like the father, so you never see this twist coming.

And then, to further confuse the gene pool connections, we come to find out that Elsa is a divine element in nature, which might explain why she is so radiantly beautiful. But Disney's depiction of divine beauty is the traditional one. Blonde, blue eyed and a voice that raises above human timbers. Okay, I'll go along, because it is a Northern story.

But then, Disney really confused me with the addition of Lieutenant Mattias, who is a black man. I would have to watch Frozen 2 again to confirm it, but I think he is the only black person in the entire town. What? Is this some attempt to ease white guilt?

As I grow older the one thing that really pisses me off is how many of us were treated as tokens in predominantly white environments. We were included as a tactical show of support in communities where our numbers would never really create problems for the dominant culture. The only real requirement was to show up for the group photo shoot.

Once, I was talking to friends, one who was black and one who was white, and the photographer snapped our photo. I wasn't sure what they were going to do with that picture, but I was surprised when it was one of two photos that was used to promote the event. They never acquired approval from any of us.

So Lieutenant Mattias bothers me. For the time frame it would have been alright if Disney had limited a very Northern story to an Anglo town and an indigenous population. But to include a black man is puzzling, since it could only be an attempt at PC. Now I feel like we need Lieutenant Mattias' backstory.

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We saw Frozen 2. Some observations about decisions that were too tactical. SPOILERS (Original Post) Baitball Blogger Jan 2020 OP
The back-story of Elsa's mother is probably that she is Sami, The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2020 #1
Thanks for the background info. Baitball Blogger Jan 2020 #2
There's a fabulous Sami movie called The Cuckoo. Big rec! Arazi Jan 2020 #11
Thanks, looks really interesting. The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2020 #12
I saw it about a month ago MuseRider Jan 2020 #3
One way to think of it (and I haven't seen the movie) might be The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2020 #4
Thank you! MuseRider Jan 2020 #6
Thank you for sharing your observations. Baitball Blogger Jan 2020 #5
Thank you. MuseRider Jan 2020 #7
You have a very good soul. Baitball Blogger Jan 2020 #8
Oh god I hate the way that sounds. MuseRider Jan 2020 #9
So far this is all I have found. MuseRider Jan 2020 #10

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,921 posts)
1. The back-story of Elsa's mother is probably that she is Sami,
Wed Jan 1, 2020, 11:54 AM
Jan 2020

once called Laplanders (which is now considered a somewhat pejorative and disfavored term), who have lived in northern Scandinavia for centuries. The Sami people are also Caucasian, and their culture actually influenced the movie.

Disney signed a contract with Sami representatives to commit themselves to portray their culture respectfully.

It included supporting the dubbing of the movie in North Sami, the most spoken of the Sami languages, and releasing it at the same time as the Norwegian version.

“‘Frozen 2’ and the film makers behind that really acknowledge the fact that Sami… that we own our own culture and our stories and they want to collaborate and do it in a respectful and sensitive way and I think this is a very important change,” said Utsi.
https://www.ntd.com/disneys-frozen-2-thrills-sami-people-in-northern-europe_409118.html

Baitball Blogger

(46,770 posts)
2. Thanks for the background info.
Wed Jan 1, 2020, 12:03 PM
Jan 2020

Like I said, it would have been fine if they had kept to the indigenous culture and the fictional town of Arendelle.

Sámi people. ... The Sámi people (also spelled Sami or Saami) are an indigenous Finno-Ugric people inhabiting Sápmi, which today encompasses large northern parts of Norway and Sweden, northern parts of Finland, and the Kola Peninsula within the Murmansk Oblast of Russia.

This is how the Sami are depicted in Frozen 2:

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
11. There's a fabulous Sami movie called The Cuckoo. Big rec!
Wed Jan 1, 2020, 03:35 PM
Jan 2020

High marks on Rotten Tomatoes

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_cuckoo_2003

Set in WWII, the story is about a single woman Sami reindeer farmer. A fantastic story and an even better dive into their culture

Edited to add a trailer

MuseRider

(34,135 posts)
3. I saw it about a month ago
Wed Jan 1, 2020, 12:17 PM
Jan 2020

and agree with you.

The funny thing here (not really funny) is that as a white person I was thrilled to SEE a black person. I did not pay particular notice to the fact that there might have only been one. It is a lot like being female, I am always thrilled to see when women get positions of power in movies and are not eventually overwhelmed by the strong and handsome man.

I just realized how that is, how seeing just one black person in a form that has been so consistently white made me happy when I should have been thinking, why only one black person? It tells me I must move past this being happy with one good character. I had never noticed it like that before. If there was only one black person then they need to hear about it because that is crazy.

Growth, I have been grown about this for years but this part of my brain needs to grow more I see. Thank you for pointing these things out. I sincerely do not remember after a month how this was done. I am always slightly agitated by the princess themes although they are better than they were there is still a lot that needs done there too. I would be willing to put up with some years more of the beautiful white princess always needing a man just to see the integration of characters that make it look like real life. I do not want to live in a white world and I do not like seeing that portrayed.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,921 posts)
4. One way to think of it (and I haven't seen the movie) might be
Wed Jan 1, 2020, 12:25 PM
Jan 2020

that the movie is based in part on the Sami culture of northern Scandinavia; and those indigenous Sami people, although they are also Caucasian, have been the victims of discrimination in those countries for centuries and still are despite anti-discrimination laws. Some reports suggest that discrimination and harassment have become worse in recent years because of the rise of right-wing populism and the failure of right-leaning government officials to enforce the laws. https://www.newsinenglish.no/2016/03/24/sami-still-battling-discrimination/ https://www.thelocal.se/20170328/campaign-launched-to-highlight-everyday-racism-against-sami-people

MuseRider

(34,135 posts)
6. Thank you!
Wed Jan 1, 2020, 12:34 PM
Jan 2020

I am embarrassed that I did not even think of these things. I lost my best friend dog 4 days before my birthday and already being depressed after losing 4 cats and a horse last year I was at my worst point. We always do birthday dinner out and a movie and I got to choose so I made my husband and son go to Frozen 2 because I wanted to see it. I knew it would be beautiful and the music would be nice and I know the actors/singers and how wonderful they would be. I also got to go to the theater where we would get snowed on. It was lovely but I do not think I ever paid a lot of attention to more than just watching it, it was beautiful and gave my mind some peace. I did appreciate the returning of lands and life to a culture that had been held back but that was as far as my sad little mind could go.

SO, thank you for telling me about this. Since we will not be getting the Disney channel I doubt I will ever see it again but now at least I understand the picture.

Baitball Blogger

(46,770 posts)
5. Thank you for sharing your observations.
Wed Jan 1, 2020, 12:29 PM
Jan 2020

Yes, it's an evolution of perspective. In the 80s it might have been okay to accept the token minorities in predominantly white environments because we were just starting to break into areas that were predominantly white. But, jump thirty-five years into the future and it is an awareness of how little we have truly broken into those circles.

So, either keep the story true to the timeline or risk showing us how little we've advanced in forty years by throwing in a token minority.

MuseRider

(34,135 posts)
7. Thank you.
Wed Jan 1, 2020, 12:38 PM
Jan 2020

I hesitated to post this because I do not like that I did not notice this. In fact, I almost cried when I realized this. Not only do I recognize that we have a long way to go still I now had to come to grips with the fact that I did not notice this. Tokens are as bad if not worse than not being there at all. I need to read the rest of the thread to see if he was the only. If he was I will send a note, not that they actually care, because this is just not right. Keyboard activist these days, they will hear like it or not.

MuseRider

(34,135 posts)
9. Oh god I hate the way that sounds.
Wed Jan 1, 2020, 12:46 PM
Jan 2020

I am just sick that it is still a problem. Thank you, if I do find out I will let you know....after I send them a note. As bad as it is to me that I did not notice if it was a token or not THEY should have and should not be satisfied, in fact should be embarrassed by this. Calling it out is the only way to let them know that this is not good enough, in fact these days it is unconscionable.

MuseRider

(34,135 posts)
10. So far this is all I have found.
Wed Jan 1, 2020, 12:56 PM
Jan 2020

These are quotes from Sterling K Brown who voice the character Lieutenant Destin Mattias. This does not answer the question but this is what he said. I have looked at what is out there for trailers and not seen anyone.

I cannot speak for anyone but me. I like what he says, of course, but I thought we were beyond this point. https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2485012/why-frozen-iis-sterling-k-brown-loves-to-be-a-character-of-color-in-arendelle

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