Obviously written by a plant, probably financed by the CIA or Alvaro Uribe.

There's a plea from all over DU, it seems, asking for "help" from the US gov't, from the CIA and the School of the Americas, and all the pro-democracy pro-freedom pro-american-way companies and agencies that have already given Central/South America so much "help" in the past several decades. A mere glance at the record is enough to eliminate any wonder that there's a plea for even more from DU OPs.

Myself, I look back in fondness to the "help" given Central/South America esp. in the Reagan years (you remember that grandfather figure so much like Danny Kaye at doing sincere and uplifting fireside chats, the man with the wonderful wife rushing to his side with a jar of jellybeans?)

not to be able to make up their minds.

to ambiguous questions that you can't even properly explain.

at that level no matter how much their government sucks, and Maduro is an ignoramus. The arresting of the opposition leader for murder caused by the government security forces is an interesting development. I guess the gov has no other choice than shoot at people is the spin.

I'm interested in seeing what other latin American nations do as this situation develops. The US will stay out.

Please say that you're joking that "The US won't intervene in Syria".
Please, for god's sake please please please say you're joking.

OK, fuck it. I know you're not.

And that says it all.

and Venezuela is doing a pretty good job alone too with this inept corrupt chavista government. Worst government in the hemisphere.

How else can you explain the counterfactual?

Don't you get embarrassed at founding your arguments on counterfactual assertions?

just look at what is happening in that country. what do you like about that government? No other latin American country is having such serious problems and you love still love kissing chavista ass.

Please say that you're joking that "The US won't intervene in Syria".
Please, for god's sake please please please say you're joking.

OK, fuck it. I know you're not.

So, since you've proven to be *that* truthful in putting forward your case, exactly what "help" do you want the US to provide to Venezuela?

The ongoing contributions of money and material do not count, the ongoing "peace talks" don't count, the fact that everybody on all sides is meddling intensively in Syria does not count. That Syria is poor and Venezuela is rich does not count. That Syria is Mediterranean desert does not count, that the Syrian civil war started with food riots does not count. It's still just like Venezuela.

Sort of like the Republicans, when the facts don't work for you, make something up, or trick somebody.

They won't liike what happens if they get the intervention they seek though. Nobody needs them post-Maduro, and it's all going to be about the oil.

It's like wandering around in a fog of bullshit all the time, and pretty soon you start to think that's what air smells like.

I can enjoy a debate with an intelligent right-winger, one who's done some reading, some thinking -- and in fact I find the tension/difficulty of that kind of debate accelerates my own learning. But these ... they have nothing to say.

something I would never have known had I not encountered these people who appear to have nothing in their anti-democratic 'arsenal' other than personal attacks. A clear sign, as has been established, of someone who cannot defend their argument, whatever it is.

Wait, you were joking, right? Omg, sometimes I get more laughs on DU than on the comedy channel.

'The US will stay out'!

You mean like they had nothing to do with the coup against Chavez!! Or the one in Honduras. And of course they have no interest in Syria, or the Ukraine! I'm sure I heard somewhere they had nothing to do with Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan either! Lol!

backing your claims that there were negotiations for a settlement and so forth. You are just miserable and don't like the US. I pretty much dismissed you long ago.

apologize for it. Who are you to make such a claim, do I know you? One thing I do know from more than a decade in forums like this, when someone has nothing to say in defense of their positions, they ALWAYS resort to personal attacks usually filled with frustrated, false claims about those they disagree with but cannot refute. So thanks for one more example among hundreds of that internet tactic.

On second thoughts, don't bother retracting your false assertion, your opinion of me is of no interest to me.

Just making up anything, never citing sources or providing anything other than your own imagination.

it well. Anyone who opposed Bush/Cheney militarism against other nations was greeted with the feeble 'You hate America' garbage.

It was probably a bannable offense at one time to drag those despicable Rightwing Limbaugh/Hannity/Faux talking points against Democrats to DU.

I would alert, but I prefer to let these things stand here, with commentary, for educational purposes.

I expect something more original on a Democratic forum if someone decides to stoop to the lowest level of discussion than to drag out that old Right Wing attack on Democrats.

And as always, not a single attempt to address the substance of the issue. That too I remember, they never wanted to talk about the issues.

Of course you would not retract the lie, I never expected it.

Neither would they.

shooting at protesters.

to choose from to back up that outright lie. I love these games, unlike so many others, I have had loads of experience with this kind of baseless right wing attack and have always loved the waiting period, and/or the predictable excuses for not providing backup for these very familiar attacks on Democrats.

I will give you some time as I know this is going to be a long and futile mission for you. I will even predict your response, because when they lie about Democrats, the responses are always the same.

Oh, and for the record, I am proud having altered my opinion on Libya after realizing what was really going on there. I am devastated that all those, a majority of the world's people, did not prevail in stopping the murderous campaign against, now, millions of Innocent Libyans and Immigrants which continues, tragically, to this day with murders, torture and kidnappings, rape and theft continue to be perpetrated against the unfortunate people who now have NO PROTECTION from the terrorists supported by NATO until they got what they wanted, then left the victims of these mobs of thugs to their own devices.

I would be ashamed to have supported the tragedy that is now Libya. I suppose you thought that was an insult. Wrong, and thanks for reminding of what NATO did, as we predicted, to Libya, its people and the unfortunate Immigrants who were trapped in the crossfire.

explains that he stands proxy for the USA, and that someone's finding his/her arguments repellent are just mean-spirited Anti-Americans.

Dear God Almighty, a Being in which I do not believe, grant me immunity from such a stink bomb.

Happens every few years, unless something else happens instead. Rather like the Republicans here, the opposition may not be able to do anything useful, but they will not be ignored.

Large scale vandalism mostly. The opposition likes to go on about the government's incompetence, but they are even worse (or better, depending on your point of view.)

I think they're just pissed off. We must remember that it started in San Cristobal which has several universities. It's basically student comradely at this point. Maduro could end it pretty easily, issue an apology, have people in his group meet with the students, then meet with them personally.

Instead it looks like he's preferring the crackdown solution, which never ends well for any side. Assume that it gets shut down, people won't forget in a year or so when a recall become viable. If the dead number in the hundreds it will be hard for Maduro to retain power.

The students aren't MUD, they're their own entity.

I was a student once, and I'm still pissed off. But I don't expect it to get me far, don't think it is a sound basis for action, being mad. Rather the opposite. When you are mad you can't think for shit, you do stupid things, you get drunk.

I don't know. Maduro may or may not be making a mistake. He seems to think it is necessary to crack down, which may be because he feels less secure, or maybe because he needs to crack down. But I tend to think he got impatient too, and the "students" do raise some serious hell. But I'm not there, and out here in TV land you have to assume it's all bullshit, selective, and in any case not intended to keep you well informed as opposed to selectively informed. Nobody shows you their own warts. And most of them will flat make shit up when it is their interests that are threatened.

On the other hand, I think there is an element for Maduro, deciding to crack down, of being able to get away with it, and I'm dead sure the "students" have picked a truly bad time to start a fight. Nobody is going to invervene on their side. I mean, the whole world is in an uproar, nobody is going to have time to stress about Venezuela. They are small potatoes at the moment. And if he gets aways with it, it's not a mistake.

The point being, Maduro is legitimately elected, and he does have plenty of support, so picking a fight now because you are mad, is, well, juvenile. They should wait. Maduro is so incompetent, their time will come. These things go on for generations. Already have for that matter, as we all know here. The rightists have been in power many times, somehow they never last, even without honest elections. If you want to stick around, you have to find a way to govern well.

You notice Obama never gets mad in public, and doesn't run his mouth to amuse himself, and he always keeps his eye on the ball, and when he gets a shot, he takes it. Discipline.

And if he gets aways with it, Maduro sits more securely in power for a while. Like Yanukovich would if he succeeded in suppressing the protests there. But he probably loses some support for it. And violence is always bad.

Hard to expect a rational reaction. You put "students" in quotations, for whatever reason, but every picture, every video I see indicates a very young, if stupid, sector of society. Some of the pictures are very disconcerting because some of the students look like they just got out of grade school.

San Cristobal is starting to look like Oaxaca at this point. But mostly young adults. I don't see how Maduro retains power if he kills too many students. The parents and families won't forget.

other than as a possible object lesson in the foolishness of crony socialism. When you purge the country of all the smart people who know how to run an economy and replace them with incompetent loyalists and useful idiots, this is what happens. The most oil-rich country in the world sinks into the abyss.

You're right, I guess this didn't happen:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110826161

By the way, you really couldn't take out the <>?

responding to.

Let me make my position perfectly clear:

I completely, utterly and vehemently oppose any US intervention in Venezuela, of any way, shape or form, including financial, diplomatic and/or military.

The Venezuelan people got themselves into their current mess by following a Pied Piper; they can get themselves out of it.