Environment & Energy
Related: About this forumToward super-size wind turbines: Bigger wind turbines do make greener electricity
http://portal.acs.org/portal/acs/corg/content?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=PP_ARTICLEMAIN&node_id=223&content_id=CNBP_030130&use_sec=true&sec_url_var=region1&__uuid=f4c39d99-e5b1-4bec-8cc7-1d316f8e219dWind Power Electricity: The Bigger the Turbine, The Greener the Electricity?
Environmental Science & Technology
[font size=3]In a study that could solidify the trend toward construction of gigantic windmills, scientists have concluded that the larger the wind turbine, the greener the electricity it produces. Their report appears in ACS journal Environmental Science & Technology.
Marloes Caduff and colleagues point out that wind power is an increasingly popular source of electricity. It provides almost 2 percent of global electricity worldwide, a figure expected to approach 10 percent by 2020. The size of the turbines also is increasing. One study shows that the average size of commercial turbines has grown 10-fold in the last 30 years, from diameters of 50 feet in 1980 to nearly 500 feet today. On the horizon: super-giant turbines approaching 1,000 feet in diameter. The authors wanted to determine whether building larger turbines makes wind energy more or less environmentally friendly.
Their study showed that bigger turbines do produce greener electricity for two main reasons. First, manufacturers now have the knowledge, experience and technology to build big wind turbines with great efficiency. Second, advanced materials and designs permit the efficient construction of large turbine blades that harness more wind without proportional increases in their mass or the masses of the tower and the nacelle that houses the generator. That means more clean power without large increases in the amount of material needed for construction or fuel needed for transportation.
The authors acknowledge funding from the European Commission.[/font][/font]
Ezlivin
(8,153 posts)It seems like the best place for gigantic wind turbines would be on any number of the hundreds of offshore oil platforms that dot the Gulf of Mexico.
I'm also interested in how the "egg beater" design will fare when it's scaled up.
http://www.mnn.com/green-tech/research-innovations/blogs/eggbeater-technology-to-double-wind-farm-output
FBaggins
(26,799 posts)Something like that was tested with much smaller turbines, but big ones like this would likely be limited to one per platform (and would require "creative" designs to mate them together.
Then add to this the fact that the turbine needs to be connected to the grid, so you would need to move all of those ugly platforms close to each other and comparatively close to land.
OKIsItJustMe
(19,940 posts)Somehow, people managed to lay pipelines in the gulf
http://www.eia.gov/special/gulf_of_mexico/map.cfm
FBaggins
(26,799 posts)It isn't that it isn't possible... just that it isn't justified.
Back-of-the-napkin, there are in the neighborhood of 4,000 oil platforms in the gulf, producing something around 1.75 million bpd. So let's ballpark it at 425 bpd/platform. One barrel of oil carries the equivalent of somewhere between 1.5 and 2.0 MWh... so that's close to 750 MW/h. Compare that to the largest wind turbine at, say, 6MW * 24hrs * 50% capacity factor.
So the question could start with asking whether you would run a connection for (very roughly) 1/10th of the energy flow? There are some offsets we haven't considered (it's just got to be cheaper to run a cable than a pipe, and there will be wind at that location for longer than there will be oil)... But that isn't really the question. The real question is why you would do it when you could instead run cable to a hub that serves 100 turbines close to each other?
So it might make sense to construct turbine supports that are essentially modified oil rig jackets, but it's unlikely that thousands upon thousands of existing (abandoned) oil rigs in the gulf will become turbine platforms unless there's an easy way to move them together and someone is willing to accept the eyesore.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)There may be problems with putting windmills in the gulf, but visual impacts are totally not a thing out there.
OKIsItJustMe
(19,940 posts)You mean as opposed to the beauty of the oil platforms?
Heres an idea
use the electricity to create a liquid or gaseous fuel of some sort which could be transported using the existing pipelines
FBaggins
(26,799 posts)... is a hundred of them of differing ages and designs right next to each other to facilitate an efficient wind farm.
Heres an idea
use the electricity to create a liquid or gaseous fuel of some sort
Hmm... like seawater electrolysis to produce hydrogen. A clever notion (though I have no idea whether it makes sense).
OKIsItJustMe
(19,940 posts)Since there are preexisting natural gas pipelines, this would seem to make sense.
FBaggins
(26,799 posts)You almost completely do away with variability concerns.
I doubt that this would make economic sense. Get CO2 out there (or take it from the atmosphere), crack the hydrogen from sea water (with the attendent losses and most of it ends up as water again), then get the resulting fuel back onshore... etc. But it's the kind of thinking we need.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)The losses in for hydrogen storage are extremely large.
There is little advantage in using the oil platforms as a base for wind turbines. However if winds happened to justify it, an oil platform might serve as the location for the transformer hub linking a wind farm.
As previously noted the winds of the Gulf are not particularly good. Texas opened that area to wind development long ago, but it has attracted no investors because the onshore winds in the region are nearly as good.
FBaggins
(26,799 posts)Makes sense, thanks!
Still... it's always a good idea to encourage lateral thinking on repurposing some of those ugly beasts
OKIsItJustMe
(19,940 posts)Care to quantify that?
I know you feel that its true, but others do not.
OKIsItJustMe
(19,940 posts)FogerRox
(13,211 posts)The Atlantic Wind Connection will be 350 miles of HVDC cable. Plus IIRC wind potential in the Gulf is not great, the east coast is much better.
In fact oil platform construction companies are now getting into offshore platforms for HVDC components, 5-20 miles offshore.
tclambert
(11,087 posts)Wikipedia says 3,858 as of 2006. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_platform
FogerRox
(13,211 posts)for potential wind power.
Utilities are climbing over each other for east coast leases, the Gulf... not so much.
Rain Mcloud
(812 posts)Build a metal chimney with an impeller inside.
The Sun heats the tube causing an updraft which would pull the rising air across the impeller blades causing rotation which would drive a generator.
Then the idea was revisited with modern technology and on a grander scale.
Sadly the project was scaled backed due to budget shortfalls.
A smaller package may still be in the works in Australia,i have not heard in several years what progress if any has been made.
The project was to rise over 3000 feet in height and employ 32 turbines at the base generating 200 Mega Watts of power.
Here(hopefully)is a link to a short video of the project:
[link: