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kristopher

(29,798 posts)
Sat Feb 11, 2012, 07:00 PM Feb 2012

Economist (magazine) Debate: Would the world be better off without nuclear power?

Would the world be better off without nuclear power?
Defending the motion
Tom Burke
a founding director of E3G (Third Generation Environmentalism)

Against the motion
Ian Hore-Lacy
Director for public communications, World Nuclear Association


Overview page: http://www.economist.com/debate/debates/overview/201

Opening Statements plus Audience Comments: http://www.economist.com/debate/days/view/681

Rebuttal Statements: http://www.economist.com/debate/days/view/685

Closing Statements: http://www.economist.com/debate/days/view/687

Results: 39% Yes 61% No



Featured Guests
Would the world be better off without nuclear power?
Amory Lovins

For four decades we have known modern energy systems could threaten civilisation in two ways—climate change and nuclear proliferation—so we must reject both fates, not trade one for the other.

New nuclear build worsens both problems. It provides do-it-yourself bomb kits in civilian disguise. It reduces and retards climate protection by saving 2-10 times less carbon per dollar—and 20-40 times slower—than superior low- and no-carbon competitors. But taking economics seriously and buying those cheaper options instead can protect climate, peace and profits.

Nuclear enthusiasm pervades powerful bureaucracies from Beijing to London and Tokyo to Washington, so 65 nuclear plants were under construction worldwide at the end of 2010. Twelve had been so listed for over 20 years, 45 had no official start-up date, most were late, 50 were in four untransparent power systems (25 in China, 25 in India, Russia and South Korea), all 65 were bought by central planners, and not one was a free-market purchase fairly competed against or compared with alternatives.

In contrast, renewables rule the marketplace, providing half the world's new generating capacity in 2008-09 and 55% in America in 2009 (compared with 2% in 2004). But while wind and solar boom, nuclear and coal orders wither. Their cost and risk dissuade investors.

New American nuclear plants are ...

http://www.economist.com/debate/days/view/685


Would the world be better off without nuclear power?
Mark Lynas

I am perplexed that anti-nuclear activists portrayed in the media are almost always described as "environmentalists". In my view, environmentalists are those who want what is best for the planet, and I would assert—in contradiction to the motion proposed—that the world is better off with nuclear power, and therefore true environmentalists should support it. In an imaginary scenario where nuclear fission had never been invented (or rather domesticated, since it happens naturally all around and even within us constantly), we would be in a much worse position in terms of our ability to address global warming.

The rise of modern human civilisation has come about largely through the harnessing of enormous fossil energy resources extracted from underground, which, when burned, liberate prodigious amounts of carbon dioxide. This has now accumulated in the atmosphere to the extent that ambient CO2 levels are higher than for millions of years. In response to this, the climate system cannot do anything else but warm if it is to abide by the laws of physics, as it usually tends to. This warming will accelerate to a civilisation-endangering extent if global emissions do not peak and quickly reduce within the next few years.

I entirely understand the arguments espoused by anti-nuclear campaigners, especially because I used to make them myself for many years. Personally I am embarrassed not that I changed my mind on nuclear, but that it took me so long to do so. I ignored overwhelming scientific evidence that nuclear is far safer than most people suppose, and in the process insisted on solutions to global warming which are neither technically feasible nor politically realistic. I would like to apologise for that.

It is appropriate to focus on Japan, because the Fukushima disaster is what has sparked this much-needed debate. I said right at the beginning of the crisis, and I still assert, that no one should die from radiation-related causes. Within the context of a catastrophe that has taken the lives of 20,000 people or more, this should give us pause for thought. Consider that a 14-metre tsunami can knock out the cooling systems of four operating reactors, causing partial meltdowns and gas explosions in three of them. And still radiation releases, while barely controlled and extremely dangerous to the heroic workers battling to keep the plants cool, should not endanger the general public.

That radiation presents risk is undeniable, but ...

http://www.economist.com/debate/days/view/686

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Economist (magazine) Debate: Would the world be better off without nuclear power? (Original Post) kristopher Feb 2012 OP
Ahh, Amory Lovins, everyone's favorite BP employee. TheWraith Feb 2012 #1
Lovins bio kristopher Feb 2012 #2
And an example of Lovins' work... kristopher Feb 2012 #5
Nuclear fission plants, to be the most expensive FogerRox Feb 2012 #3
Yes, it's unnecessary and dangerous - especially the proliferation risks. nt bananas Feb 2012 #4

TheWraith

(24,331 posts)
1. Ahh, Amory Lovins, everyone's favorite BP employee.
Sat Feb 11, 2012, 07:02 PM
Feb 2012

Although of course he doesn't work solely for BP. He also works for Chevron, Royal Dutch Shell, and Walmart.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
2. Lovins bio
Sat Feb 11, 2012, 07:17 PM
Feb 2012

Amory B. Lovins
Cofounder and CEO of Rocky Mountain Institute

Lovins Amory Lovins, a MacArthur and Ashoka Fellow and consultant physicist, is among the world's leading innovators in energy and its links with resources, security, development, and environment. He has advised the energy and other industries for more than three decades as well as the U.S. Departments of Energy and Defense. His work in 50+ countries has been recognized by the "Alternative Nobel," Blue Planet, Volvo, Onassis, Nissan, Shingo, Goff Smith, and Mitchell Prizes, the Benjamin Franklin and Happold Medals, 11 honorary doctorates, honorary membership of the American Institute of Architects, Foreign Membership of the Royal Swedish Academy of Engineering Sciences, honorary Senior Fellowship of the Design Futures Council, and the Heinz, Lindbergh, Jean Meyer, Time Hero for the Planet, Time International Hero of the Environment, Popular Mechanics Breakthrough Leadership, National Design (Design Mind), and World Technology Awards. A Harvard and Oxford dropout and former Oxford don, he has briefed 20 heads of state and advises major firms and governments worldwide, recently including the leadership of Coca-Cola, Deutsche Bank, Ford, Holcim, Interface, and Wal-Mart. In 2009, Time named him one of the 100 most influential people in the world, and Foreign Policy, one of the 100 top global thinkers.

Mr. Lovins cofounded and is Chairman and Chief Scientist of Rocky Mountain Institute (www.rmi.org), an independent, market-oriented, entrepreneurial, nonprofit, nonpartisan think-and-do tank that creates abundance by design. Much of its pathfinding work on advanced resource productivity (typically with expanding returns to investment) and innovative business strategies is synthesized in Natural Capitalism (1999, with Paul Hawken and L.H. Lovins, www.natcap.org). This intellectual capital provides most of RMI's revenue through private-sector consultancy that has served or been invited by more than 80 Fortune 500 firms, lately redesigning more than $30 billion worth of facilities in 29 sectors. In 1992, RMI spun off E SOURCE (www.esource.com), and in 1999, Fiberforge Corporation (www.fiberforge.com), a composites technology firm that Mr. Lovins chaired until 2007; its technology, when matured and scaled, will permit cost- effective manufacturing of the ultralight-hybrid Hypercar® vehicles he invented in 1991.

The latest of his 29 books are Small Is Profitable: The Hidden Economic Benefits of Making Electrical Resources the Right Size (2002, www.smallisprofitable.org), an Economist book of the year blending financial economics with electrical engineering, and the Pentagon-cosponsored Winning the Oil Endgame (2004, www.oilendgame.com), a roadmap for eliminating U.S. oil use by the 2040s, led by business for profit. His most recent visiting academic chair was in spring 2007 as MAP/Ming Professor in Stanford's School of Engineering, offering the University's first course on advanced energy efficiency (www.rmi.org/stanford).

http://www.oilendgame.com/TheAuthors.html

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
5. And an example of Lovins' work...
Sat Feb 11, 2012, 07:33 PM
Feb 2012

Originally posted here in response to you making the same absurd claim before.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=115&topic_id=317349&mesg_id=317355

Let me repeat the question you didn't answer then, "What have YOU done to eliminate or reduce the use of fossil fuels?"

Lovins work with WalMart

He helped them establish achievable standards of performance that doubled the fuel efficiency for their trucks. Walmart then used their purchasing weight as a lever to demand that manufacturers deliver the equipment to do this.
This is resulting in the adoption of those levels of performance across the entire trucking fleet of the US thereby reducing US oil consumption by 6 percent (and that doesn't count what might happen elsewhere in the world).

Let me repeat that since you seem to have trouble understanding what is actually important in the effort to fight climate change:

He - Amory Lovins, the guy that you hate because he says nuclear is BAD - helped them establish achievable standards of performance that doubled the fuel efficiency for their trucks. Walmart then used their purchasing weight as a lever to demand that manufacturers deliver the equipment to do this.

This is resulting in the adoption of those levels of performance across the entire trucking fleet of the US thereby reducing US oil consumption by 6 percent (and that doesn't count what might happen elsewhere in the world).

What have YOU done to eliminate or reduce the use of fossil fuels?


See also http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x317349

FogerRox

(13,211 posts)
3. Nuclear fission plants, to be the most expensive
Sat Feb 11, 2012, 07:18 PM
Feb 2012

form of electricity. Or, is this how you spell demise?

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