Foreign Affairs
Related: About this forumYemeni forces fire Scud missile at Saudi Arabia
Yemen's dominant Houthi group and its army allies fired a Scud missile at Saudi Arabia which the kingdom says it shot down on Saturday, in a major escalation of two months of war.
In the first use of the long range ballistic Scud in the conflict, the missile was fired early Saturday morning at the city of Khamees Mushait in the kingdom's southwest and was intercepted by two Patriot missiles, a statement by the Saudi military said.
The area is home to the largest air force base in southern Saudi Arabia, the world's top oil exporter, but there are no oil facilities in the vicinity.
Al Masira, the Houthi group's official channel, confirmed the launch and said it targeted the Prince Khaled air base.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/06/us-yemen-security-saudi-idUSKBN0OM05T20150606
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Per Twitter pictures.
Renew Deal
(81,901 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)on why the Houtihi Groups were a threat to the Saudi's on the Border. Bad past experiences there as you pointed out for the Saudi's.
"Young Salman" thinks he's got an edge there....these days? Showing the "Old Guys" his stuff is better?
What a mess...all of it. Except for those who "Think" they know what's going on and how to deal with it all ...according to their "current" Military Models and Military "War Games" Strategic Thinking? How has that worked out so far? "This Time" they will get it Right? How many more Military Action failures using our Tax Dollars that could go for Infrastructure here at Home?
bemildred
(90,061 posts)BEIRUT // Yemens Houthi rebels and their allies showed they were able to launch missile attack on Saudi Arabia when they fired a Scud at the airbase town of Khamis Mushait.
The Saudi military intercepted the missile before it reached its target, and while more Scuds could be coming across the border, the impact of the weapon is likely to be muted due to their clumsy nature and the kingdoms existing defence system.
Yemen is believed to have several different types of Scud missiles of both North Korean and Soviet origin. During 1994s civil war between southern separatists and the forces of former president Ali Abdullah Saleh, both sides used Scuds.
In December 2002, Spanish naval vessels stopped an unflagged North Korean cargo ship in the Arabian Sea 950 kilometres off the Horn of Africa. Fifteen Hwasong ballistic missiles a North Korean variant of the Scud that the country reverse engineered in the 1980s and early 1990s were found hidden under bags of cement.
http://www.thenational.ae/world/middle-east/houthi-scud-missiles-pose-limited-threat-to-saudi-arabia
Response to bemildred (Reply #4)
KoKo This message was self-deleted by its author.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)It doesn't sound good for the Houthi's unless they have some other "card up their sleeve?"
Deleted my other post because it was "self answered," when I took time to think about it further.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)But you have to remember the theatrical aspect of the war, the Saudis want submission, so if they don't get it, they don't win, not unlike with the US Foreign Policy wonks attitude when dealing with Russia and China etc. and very similar in why they aren't getting their way, and won't. You would think it would dawn on them if they can't get Iran to submit they sure ought not be fucking with China.
Everybody always thinks foreign policy is drivien by high minded motives and deep thoughts and then you get to looking at it and it's all monkey politics, status and hierarchy and "dominance" and giant egos driven mad with the lust for power like Erdogan, and of course all the sex and money you can handle. I mean listen to the language they use. Look at the giant simple-minded monuments they build to themselves. Pyramids. Rectangles. Life as a game of accumulation, like you could live forever. It's contemptible. It's pathetic.
Great Graphic...nails it, sadly. no pun intended...just came out that way.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)It's a good start.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)And some sources say three were fired, one shot down. Given the level of authoritative bullshit it's hard to tell.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)Will remain to be seen how this plays out. We don't know what "Public Opinon" push back there may be out there in the MENA...to see if anything changes the dialogue. "Underground Press" circulated in the "Refugee Camps" word of mouth........word of human experience in the ones who still have cell phones to function who can be Heralds for News in disparate, disconnected Refugee Communities?
That may be the only "card" the Houthi's have left to play. The last "Scud" effort might swing opinion. But, without fresh munitions......they would seem "down for the count."
Caveat..I'm ever hopeful for the Least to Survive against the Powerful" ....even with spit balls, etc. "Little David against Mighty Goliath" fascinated me as a little kid in my upbringing. As it might apply to the Very Powerful always being vulnerable to a "Sling Shot" wound that is unexpected from a "Small Player" who could topple a Regime.
I went past my childhood innocence of Story of "David and Goliath" as I went on through my years and came to some kind of maybe
"Metaphysical Interpretation" of that old Biblical Story taught in Protestant "Sunday Schools" all over America in Decades Past.
I think our Teachers didn't know then that those children listening and reading might all have very diverse opinions of their teachings later on in their lives.
But...I wouldn't trash that learning because it is PARABLES. They don't get read much, anymore because ......well...they are considered "Folk Culture" ...unscientific, un-Think Tank Vetted....and well...just childish fantasies corralled to indoctrinate "un-enlighted minds." 's
They are Important.. But, then...I'm a Liberal Arts Student in my past. We have our own views....what's left of them...We can be very Eclectic in our Views.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)War is more like an open-ended lose-lose kind of deal.
I'm fond of parables, they often embody useful heuristics.
My wife has a Masters in Early American Lit, so I know all about that stuff, theoretically ...
KoKo
(84,711 posts)But, its another step in showing what the Saudi's are up to and Yemen's Challenge to Saudi Power is an action that might have future consequences down the road, at some point, that will change the power structure that exists now. What will come after, though, is the question. Not been good, so far, for MENA as you well know...
Did you see the huge protests at the G-6 this weekend...and the German Police Presence in their Riot Gear? It's reported 20 Thousand German Police against the Protesters. Hard to know if accurate numbers with any reported protest numbers... but, the videos were impressive. Actually, I thought it was a bit frightening looking at it.
They had to helicopter the G-6 members up to the "Castle" in the Bavarian Alps because of the large number of protesters. No media were allowed at the Castle to report. They were forced to stay a distance away.
Protests seem to be gaining momentum, everywhere. Hard to know how that will go moving forward...but, usually means either change or further repression down the road. The late 60's comes to mind for my memory of the times we are now going through. Hard to know what this particular cycle will bring.
Agree about the "Lose/Lose" of war. There really aren't winners except those who Profit. The aftermath leaves too much devastation for everyone else who has to suffer through the clean up and restart. The "Peaceable Kingdom" isn't coming in our lifetimes...I don't think, if ever. Still, who can live without hope?
bemildred
(90,061 posts)---
Houthi Scud? How did the Houthi get a Scud? Yemen does, or did, have some Scud-B missiles, but did a rural Shia militia like the Houthi actually manage to get three of them, transport them to their home base of Saada, and fire them at the wealthy town of Khamis Musheit, as the official story goes?
If so, the choice of target city is interesting. Saada is much closer to my old stompin ground, Najran. The Houthi have been bombarding Najran for weeks, using simple mortars. On June 5 2015, Houthi infantry supposedly crossed the border in a direct attack on Najran.
So why aim your Scuds at a much more distant target like Khamis Musheit, when theres a Saudi town like Najran just over the border? Well, thats actually the one part of the story that makes sense to me. See, Najranas Ive written beforeis a Shia-majority town, and therefore despised by the rulers of Saudi Arabia. Nobody in the house of Saud would so much as shrug if Najran was blasted by a Scud. Oh, theyre not gonna let the Houthis take Najran; the Sauds dont give up one inch of their rightfully-grabbed real estate. But they dont really give a damn about the actual inhabitants of Najran.
Khamis Musheit is a very different matter. Its the gateway to Abha, capital of Asir Province, the highland resort where its cool and pleasant all year round. The men who matter in Riyadh would be very upset if anything happened to Khamis Musheit, or any other town in Asir.
http://pando.com/2015/06/08/the-war-nerd-scuds-patriots-the-armies-of-this-age-are-weird/
KoKo
(84,711 posts)His writing style is way funny--like "Pepi" on Steroids.
Thanks for the link...
Just a couple of Snips:
-------------snip
But the Patriot has a big-bang ancestor too: the Nike Hercules MIM-14, which used a nuclear warhead to blow up anything within a sphere the size of a small city, in theory saving the inhabitants of American cities from nuclear annihilation, while bathing them in fallout which would give them free tanning for life, what was left of it.
So, did those Saudi Patriots bring down those alleged Houthi Scuds? Since the Saudis arent one of those journalism-friendly armies (or countries), its difficult to know. It seems unlikely that the Houthi could have smuggled three gigantic Scuds to Saada intact and launched them effectively. In fact, who knows if the missiles launched were actually Scuds. If they were then its just as likely that the Houthis who fired them did it wrong as that the Saudi crews if the Patriots were actually crewed by Saudis knocked them out of the sky.
Notice all the ifs in this scenario. Thats typical of any Patriot-Scud engagement. In a fight-to-the-death between two intentionally dialed-down, weak weapons, the natural outcome is a fizzle.
http://pando.com/2015/06/08/the-war-nerd-scuds-patriots-the-armies-of-this-age-are-weird/
bemildred
(90,061 posts)But yeah, he is my kind guy, sort of, an eye for bullshit.
I thought he elucidated why the Yemeni SCUDs are not much of a threat quite well.
And his examination of the Patriot missile system too, the sort of weapon that works quite well in theatrical war but disappears pretty fast in a real war, it's much too expensive for war of attrition.
But the SCUDs work quite well for theatrical war too, so we may see more of them.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)We have so few these days.