Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumGay Palestinian seeking asylum in Canada set to be deported despite death threats
TORONTO If the Canadian government decides to deport John Calvin back to Palestine on Nov. 4, he believes he will be killed.
Its a known thing that it will be a death sentence, so there would be no way around it, he said from his home in Edmonton.
Scared, terrified, disappointed, theres a bunch of different things that one in my situation would feel.
http://globalnews.ca/news/2032218/gay-palestinian-seeking-asylum-in-canada-set-to-be-deported-despite-death-threats/
King_David
(14,851 posts)That his life is at stake because he's Gay.
Stephen Harpers right wing government may be pro Israel but is still a disgusting right wing ideological and morally bankrupt group.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)here by proxy...any Palestinian can't be trusted. Who do you think feeds that stereotype?
Your OP: Initially, his case looked favourable after his lawyer says an immigration hearing determined his young age and minimal interactions with Hamas proved he was not a member of the group that the Canadian government designates as a radical Islamist-nationalist terrorist organization.
But a second hearing with the Immigration Appeal Division reached the opposite conclusion and Calvin is set to be deported on Nov. 4.
So you have these two completely contradictory and inconsistent decisions and unfortunately John doesnt get the benefit of the doubt, he gets the worse decision imposed against him, said Calvins lawyer Nate Whitling, who is also one of Omar Khadrs lawyers, adding that an appeal to that decision was flatly denied without explanation.
Thats the end, we cant appeal that any further so were sort of out of options in the courts and John is stuck with this decision.***
Of course he should be given asylum, but that would mean hateful people who perpetuate the
belief that Palestinians are a menace, will have to change.
Also, you posted a link to The Blaze, in post#3, Glenn Becks website. Interesting source you trust:
Putting Glenn Beck's Stance Against Anti-Gay Bigotry To The Test
See more at: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/putting-glenn-becks-stance-against-anti-gay-bigotry-test#sthash.eVqd1aFd.dpuf
Why use that vile man's website when you can use a useful petition by change.org?
Allow John Calvin to stay.
https://www.change.org/p/canadian-government-allow-john-calvin-to-stay
King_David
(14,851 posts)Changed to change.org on your advice
Hopefully they don't send this poor Gay guy to a gay-barbaric place where he surely will die for being Gay.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)their mind.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Not until they come out of the Middle Ages as far as LGBT are concerned.
He faces a certain death as a Gay man and that's Unbelievable that "progressives" turn a blind eye to these barbaric beliefs inside Palestine.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)can figure out agendas from the likes of Glenn Beck too.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Turning a blind eye to extreme Homophobia equally as bad as IS, Uganda, Iran and far worse than Russia.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)Especially Gaza and everywhere in Palestine and Uganda and Iran and Russia.
You honestly never knew this?
This guy in the OP is fearing for his life.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)targeted by their host countries..that is unsupported. I asked you where you get these
ideas from..Glenn Becks website?
I already know what the young man is up against and posted to change.org, for you.
King_David
(14,851 posts)This OP is about Palestine .
One of the worst culprits.
This poor Guy is being sent back there to a certain death.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)he is Palestinian. The host country here is just as guilty.
I wonder who perpetuates that hatred and fear..it is not progressives.
King_David
(14,851 posts)One of the handful of places of 5-6 of the very worst offenders / Himophobic places in the world.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Palestinian. Progressives are not the problem as you stated.
If he is lucky, he can apply elsewhere, perhaps a country who does not believe
he can't be trusted.
Those who perpetuate the bigotry that has culminated in Canada's decision are guilty too.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Canada should not be sending this guy to a certain death to Palestine and Canadians must stop their Government, it's a blight on a very near perfect score on the LGBT front.
Palestine must be shunned and not allowed into the community of civilized nations for what they will do to this guy just because he is gay.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)You: Palestine must be shunned and not allowed into the community of civilized nations for what they will do to this guy just because he is gay.
Where do you get these ideas from? I have never heard of such an approach in my life. If you believe
that any human rights group who has more than a little credibility on this subject, would support such
an inhumane thing, you're off the rails...totally.
What you're saying is, they don't get a viable state, nothing. Outrageous to think that would even work,
quite disingenuous of you.
King_David
(14,851 posts)And definitely in Palestine too , by every means possible.
It is absolutely never acceptable.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)How to assist people who are fighting for their rights takes more nuance than that.
You don't want to make matters worse.
King_David
(14,851 posts)No matter the circumstances.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)grossproffit
(5,591 posts)"Raised by a Hamas-supporting family in the West Bank his grandfather was one of the founding fathers of the group - this young Palestinian man was indoctrinated to believe in violence, anti-Semitism, and an extreme interpretation of Islam. However, by the age of 15 he began to question these beliefs, beginning a journey that culminated in him converting to Christianity. For his parents, this was unacceptable. His life in grave danger, John had no choice but to escape."
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)grossproffit
(5,591 posts)I've already made phone calls, fired off emails and signed petitions. What have you done to help this young man?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)were presented with more than enough information. They do not trust him, he is a Palestinian, they
have no other reason to not believe him. Who perpetuates that hatred of Palestinians, not progressives.
What have I done? What is this a contest for you?
Pathetic.
Read the thread is one suggestion I have for you, and my last one.
shira
(30,109 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)change.org..not you, nor the one who posted the OP.
King_David
(14,851 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)grossproffit
(5,591 posts)6chars
(3,967 posts)regardless of all the back and forth on this thread
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)that the fact gays are disgustingly targeted by hamas is just about completely ignored by many progressives? That you accuse a gay person of getting that information on a right wing website is a pretty outrageous charge and merely made to shut down the discussion. That's not going to work. It's VERY well known that gays are targets in many Muslim countries, including the Gaza strip and yet I see nothing but deflection of that fact here on DU by people who insist Israel is the boogieman and 100% wrong in all aspects of the I/P issue. If you aren't aware of it, you aren't paying attention.
tanbrown
(32 posts)Wife-beating and woman-killing are reported to be at epic levels in the Palestinian territories. Honor killings - in which men kill their daughters or sisters so other men will RESPECT them for murdering the "disobedient whore" - are becoming ever more common.
Meanwhile Hamas is pushing the usual Islamist restrictions on women. (For example, the UN-sponsored Gaza marathon for charity was obstructed last year by the Palestinians, who said women would not be allowed to commit the sin of public running.)
Don't take my word for it. Please search the topic of domestic violence in Palestinian lands, and see for yourselves.
I am constantly amazed that, despite so much concern for Palestinians, no one cares to advocate for the problems of the half who are female.
(Ah well - they're only women! And caring about them would mean - gasp - criticizing Palestinian culture and religion. Better to say nothing and keep cheering on the patriarchy.)
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)made his comment - essentially that many on the left are apologists for Islam when it comes to treatment of women and gays - many posters here went ballistic. I was in complete agreement with him - as were others who were accused of Islamophobia and other nonsense. It was then that I realized some people just can't handle the truth, that they're so invested in the I/P wars and so invested in "rooting for the underdog" they quite simply turned their heads away from reality. I will never do that.
Last edited Wed Jun 10, 2015, 07:18 AM - Edit history (2)
Actually I don't think the liberal Islam-lovers are just motivated by I/P.
Their thinking goes like this:
Some right wingers are bigoted against Muslims. Some right wingers say nutty stuff like "All Muslims are terrorists.". Therefore, Muslims are an oppressed group. Therefore we "liberals" get moral-superiority points for opposing RW bigotry by adoring and promoting Islam and bragging about our "tolerance" for the poor little religion.
It's a combination of group-think and patting oneself on the back - "look what a good person I am; I admire Islam!"
The problem is: mainstream Islam is every bit as coercive and patriarchal as the extremist fringe of Chriatianity and the Haredi Jews of Israel. If you hate the Duggars for what they teach about women's place; if you hate the LDS polygamy sects for controlling their youth and females; if you believe individuals should have the freedom to leave the faith they were born into; if you believe women and men and people of all religions should live under the same laws - then for fuck's sake, recognize that Islam 2015 opposes every liberal belief we hold dear.
Hell, I have no problem with a free, uncoerced woman putting a collar and chain around her own neck and handing the other end to her husband. I have no problem with a grown woman deciding of her own free will to wear hijab, or cutting off her own clitoris because "Allah wants me to.". But Muslim women wear a (figurative) collar and chain not because they exactly choose it, but because they are trained to submit and their husbands are trained to expect submission - and everything is stacked to keep women in their place. As for hijab, many (I don't claim all) wear hijab not exactly freely but because of social expectations, coercion, the threat of ostracism or violence, and the penalties and judgment they would receive for not doing so. And although millions of women have had their clitoris hacked off to please Allah, I don't know of a single one who chose that butchery for her own self. (Though a great many force it on their little daughters. Guess why.)
Please my friends:
It is possible to stand against bigotry and ALSO despise Islam.
We can agree that individuals (Muslim or not) deserve respect and equal opportunities in our society... while hating the institution of Islam for drumming gender inequality, religious supremacy, colonialism, homophobia, violent penal law, hypocrisy, and adoration of theocracy into the minds of 1.6 billion people (most of whom have no freedom to reject what they are taught).
I lived in the middle of Islam for years - had a Muslim family, sent my kids to a Muslim school. Unlike many armchair apologists I actually know what I'm talking about. Islam has the same virtues as Christian fundamentalism (defined roles, strong family ties, tradition, security-in-conformity) but it has all the same evils too - except jacked up about 2000 percent, with way more militancy and a far greater devotion to mixing mosque and state into a totalitarian nightmare.
Please let's start judging it by the same standards we judge our homegrown Christian fringe groups. Please let's stop being insanely uncritical about a movement that opposes individuality and equality and the freedom to leave it.
Please.
shira
(30,109 posts)Wouldn't want to upset the progressive Palestinian leadership by saying anything about that.
It's too Zionist to stand up for liberal values.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)Of course, they're not anti Semitic, only anti Zionist. *wink* *wink*
iandhr
(6,852 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Everyone stands up for the Palestinians - right up to a case like this where true colors shine. Then they turn themselves into pretzels trying to blame the west (today's culprit - Canada).
Response to shira (Reply #21)
Name removed Message auto-removed
King_David
(14,851 posts)I'm talking about some people who consider themselves as progressive but yet support a regime that would kill this guy because he is Gay. These are not progressives.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)law...no bantustan. They get an airport, army and seaport too...just like Israel.
King_David
(14,851 posts)I'm talking about people who call themselves progressive ( not real progressives ) who turn a blind eye to the worst kind of Homophobia in Palestine ( Gaza and West Bank) as well as anywhere else surrounding Israel ( these are not progressives)
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)to have a state until they deal with gay rights. You are suggesting that anyone who advocates for
them to have a viable state presently is not progressive.
shira
(30,109 posts)....is progressive on gay rights, women's rights, etc.?
Anything at all?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)to begin. Why do you think major human rights groups have told Abbas, go to the international courts?
Because they believe gay rights, women's rights can only/should only come before a state is realized?
Your positions are offensive, deeply so.
shira
(30,109 posts)Laughable.
So your fellow advocates are doing nothing for gay rights & women's rights in a future Palestine.
Why do you think waiting for their state to materialize is preferable to doing anything now?
And yeah, gay and women's rights come first before anything.
You have to be told this?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)My fellow PEP's? You are way out of line and your posts demonstrative
what you're about.
I will leave anyone who cares to read your post history and they can determine your
sincerity for the human rights of Palestinians...if they're interested.
Have a nice day, shira.
shira
(30,109 posts)We should do a poll here and see how many support fighting for women's and gay rights NOW within the Palestinian territories, as opposed to waiting for a Palestinian state to first materialize.
Do you think advocating for their rights NOW would be too Zionist?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)That is a fact but you'll keep labeling it something it no longer is, for a reason that has
nothing to do with accuracy.
Go ahead, shira, fight for their human rights, call HRW, see how they like your plan, and
please, donate heavily.
shira
(30,109 posts)...that would grant the Palestinians their own viable state (on or near 100% of '67 W.Bank territory) with no occupation and settlements.
You also prefer that no one lifts a finger to advocate for women and gays now under Palestinian authority. That should wait as long as it takes for Palestinian statehood to materialize. Maybe decades.
Is that accurate?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Anyone interested to know what I said can read the thread..most can figure it out.
Good luck.
shira
(30,109 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Do you think this presents a good framework:
http://www.geneva-accord.org
iandhr
(6,852 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 5, 2015, 07:15 PM - Edit history (1)
"Imagine if, because of your religion, political beliefs and sexuality, your own family would have you killed. Imagine if the only way you could survive was to escape the society you were raised in. And now imagine youd made a new life for yourself in a different country only to be told you were about to be deported back to those who want you dead.
John Calvin doesnt have to imagine any of this. Raised by a Hamas-supporting family in the West Bank his grandfather was one of the founding fathers of the group - this young Palestinian man was indoctrinated to believe in violence, anti-Semitism, and an extreme interpretation of Islam. However, by the age of 15 he began to question these beliefs, beginning a journey that culminated in him converting to Christianity. For his parents, this was unacceptable. His life in grave danger, John had no choice but to escape.
https://www.change.org/p/canadian-government-allow-john-calvin-to-stay
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)has even bothered to show up on this thread. While the one that did show up (and kudos to him for that at least) tries to pretend progressives don't have a problem with turning away from the gay issue so they can continue to blame Israel for the entire I/P mess. It's the same thing with the treatment of women. PEP is VERY real.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)http://www.rawstory.com/2014/07/get-tested-are-you-a-pep-progressive-except-on-palestine/
It's amazing how people can think supporting Hamas is a "progressive" position.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)as being terror supporters is that true?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=105333
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)If they can't blame Israel, they will blame the west (today it's Canada). Because the Palestinians who voted for a terrorist organization are innocent little lambs who simply can't help themselves. Hating gays and women is simply not to be talked about EVER. If you bring it up, you're nothing but a Zionist apologist (or something equally as stupid).
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)deporting too, Palestine has already been debunked
but I do applaud comments like yours for the concern they show
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)treatment of women and gays is completely glossed over by you and your pals? That must be what you mean because after over a decade here my record on women's rights and gay rights is there for everyone to see.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)was answered quite eloquently here
16. Not their host countries
This OP is about Palestine .
One of the worst culprits.
This poor Guy is being sent back there to a certain death.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=105467
so is this person 'John Calvin' your actual concern here? You seem to state the OP isn't really about him
King_David
(14,851 posts)The OP is about a Gay Palestinian refugee in Canada fearing for his life that he may be sent back to the place , he escaped from.
A place where on the Gay front , is culturally backwards in their treatment of Gays, barbaric in their treatment of gays , Middle Ages in their treatment of Gays.
That someone has to fear for his life because they are being sent back to a place that may kill him and put him to death because he was born gay is shameful.
Shame on Canada and Stephen Harper for not saving his life by sending him back to the Middle Ages
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)th most logical place he could be sent and the one that controls all border entries and exits save one, (Rafah) is reputedly the most Gay friendly country in the region and well that country wouldn't deport a Gay man just because of his ethnic background would it?
King_David
(14,851 posts)At all...
Doesn't change the story
At all
Doesn't change the fact that he's fearful for his life should he return to Palestine.
At all
Doesn't whitewash the fact that Palestinian treatment of gays and culture toward Gays is back in the Middle Ages.
At all
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)16. Not their host countries
This OP is about Palestine .
One of the worst culprits.
This poor Guy is being sent back there to a certain death.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=105467
94. Not sure that makes any difference
View profile
At all...
Doesn't change the story
At all
Doesn't change the fact that he's fearful for his life should he return to Palestine.
At all
Doesn't whitewash the fact that Palestinian treatment of gays and culture toward Gays is back in the Middle Ages.
At all
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=105783
King_David
(14,851 posts)Than anyone attempting to whitewash homophobia anywhere : goes for Russia, Uganda, IS , Palestine or Iran.
So thank you for that turn.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)speaks for itself
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Whatever.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)excepr for your concern about womens issues, albeit it seems rather limited to Muslim/Palestinian/Arab women, perhaps I missed something
shira
(30,109 posts)....and even worse, children used as human shields, for child labor (digging tunnels until they die), and utilized as child-combatants & praised as martyrs for the cause.
These Palestinians (the vast majority of Gazans) don't have human rights under Hamas according to PEP's for BDS. PEP's will never harshly condemn Hamas for any of that. They simply do what Hamas wants them to do (blame Israel 24-7-365 while running interference for Hamas' war crimes & brutality against their own civilians). Why should Hamas stop doing what they're doing to their own civilians with friends like PEP's who enable their behavior & deflect all criticism from them?
It's hard to hate and loathe Palestinians more than PEP's.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)myself I think he's as extremist as those he tries to demonize
We are seeing this emerging again and again lately, within the extreme Left and stoked by those on the bigoted Right who merely see a number of useful idiots on the Left to further their own anti-Semitic goals (think Jewish Voice for Peace or Tikkun). More and more lately we see it in the hateful and bigoted BDS and Campus Divestment Movements, where straight out anti-Semites and their useful idiot friends try to paint Jewish and Pro-Zionist liberals into a corner of being members of the Conservative Lunatic Fringe and thus discrediting them with younger more liberal leaning students.
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/progressive-except-for-palestine-pep-a-real-progressive-response/
King_David
(14,851 posts)Yesterday, the Palestinian Liberation Organization's ambassador to the U.S. wouldn't say whether homosexuals would be tolerated in a Palestinian state. At the Jerusalem Post, Benjamin Weinthal points out that the death penalty is the price for being gay in the Gaza strip:
The Hamas-controlled Gaza strip has declared homosexuality punishable by death. Hamas cofounder Mahmoud Zahar has said, You in the West do not live like human beings. You do not even live like animals. You accept homosexuality. And now you criticize us?
In an April broadcast on Hamass Al-Aksa TV, which was translated by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), Syrian academic Muhammad Rateb al- Nabulsi said, Homosexuality involves a filthy place, and does not generate offspring. Homosexuality leads to the destruction of the homosexual. That is why, brothers, homosexuality carries the death penalty.
http://m.weeklystandard.com/blogs/would-gays-be-executed-or-imprisoned-palestinian-state_593540.html
King_David
(14,851 posts)Hamas say gays are perverts will be punished if they win elections
Hamas, the militant and political group in the Palestinian Territories have said that they win the Palestinian Authority Parliamentary election, they would ban men and women dancing together and will strip gay men and women of the few rights they have in the territory that they have at present.
Dr Mahmoud Zahar (pictured), the groups leader in Gaza, in an article on an Arabic website condemned the rights that gays have in Israel and made it clear that he thinks that gays are perverts. Are these the laws for which the Palestinian street is waiting? For us to give rights to homosexuals and to lesbians, a minority of perverts and the mentally and morally sick? He asked on the Elaph website.
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2005/10/10/hamas-say-gays-are-perverts-will-be-punished-if-they-win-elections/
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)Why aren't there more signatures?
[link:https://www.change.org/p/canadian-government-allow-john-calvin-to-stay|
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)As far as Canada is concerned Palestine does not exist and they have no diplomatic relations with it. Moreover Palestine has neither the ability nor the capacity to accept deportees.
It's quite a strange story really, and certainly very colourful as John Calvin tells it.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)albeit he's not an Israeli citizen
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)I can't think of an instance where the Israelis have accepted a Palestinian deportee.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)after that, I haven't found anything associated with the case to being giving a clue, so far.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)In fact, John Calvin, who does not use his real name, told CTV News that his family was one of the founders of the group.
It is pretty close to ISIS. They are vicious when it comes to anything they are doing, he explained
http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/edmonton-man-fears-for-his-life-after-being-issued-deportation-notice-1.2171459
seems almost odd this guy allows his picture to posted but will say what his real name is
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Of course they have the ability and capacity to accept deportees. Jordan has deported several Palestinians back to the West Bank.
In this case, Canada would deport "John Calvin" to Jordan (which is where he arrived in Canada from) and Jordan would deport him to the West Bank.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)or you seem to confuse Palestine with Jordan?
oberliner
59. You have no idea what you are talking about
View profile
Of course they have the ability and capacity to accept deportees. Jordan has deported several Palestinians back to the West Bank.
In this case, Canada would deport "John Calvin" to Jordan (which is where he arrived in Canada from) and Jordan would deport him to the West Bank.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=105740
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Not true. They have accepted deportees from Jordan.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Canada does not have the relations with Palestine to facilitate that
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)Post it up. Otherwise I stand by earlier comments - Israel controls the border, therefore who crosses it is their decision. The Palestinians are hardly "accepting" deportees if the decision is being made for them.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Officials from Jordan's Ministry of Justice said Jordan does deport Palestinians to the West Bank, depending on the gravity of the case. They declined, however, to give figures on the number of individuals who have been deported. Sources in the ministry said that no more than five people have been deported in the past four years.
Palestinian Ambassador to Jordan Attallah Khairi said the problem of extradition exists, but he played down its significance.
"Jordan did not shirk its responsibility to the Palestinian Authority on this issue, but cooperation on issues of financial corruption could be improved," he told The Media Line.
Khiri said the Palestinian Authority and Jordan cooperate under the Riyadh Agreement between members of the Arab League, which allows the extradition of individuals sentenced to prison for more than one year.
http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/The-Palestinian-great-escape
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)albeit that would not be the case here more from your article
The situation is complicated by the close ties between the West Bank and Jordan. Jordan ruled the area from 1948 to 1967, when it came under Israeli control. An estimated 800,000 Palestinians living in the West Bank, out of a total population of 2.6 million, hold Jordanian citizenship, the impact of which is strengthened where there are close family ties.
Jordanian law prohibits the extradition of Jordanian citizens except in exceptional cases, so the kingdoms government is unlikely to extradite Palestinians to the West Bank once they have entered Jordan.
http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/The-Palestinian-great-escape
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)Because shittyfitty antics aside, you've simply confirmed what I said - Canada can deport him to Jordan, presuming that that is where he came from, and then Jordan will have to deal with him. Canada cannot deport him to Palestine.
The Palestinians don't control the border with Jordan - Israel does. Therefore whether he ends up in the West Bank depends on whether Israel is prepared to accept him.
Normally the Jordanians will only grant a passport to a palestinian if they hold a current ID card, so that the Israelis should allow that person to cross back via the Allenby bridge.
Obviously, if you're relying on specific instances, you should link to them.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I apologize for the rude tone. You actually raise a good point about the logistics of Canada deporting this guy to the West Bank. Since I assume you've read a little about this story, it is an established fact that he has been presented with a deportation order. I would think that you wouldn't be disputing that. It's also established that he lived in Jordan prior to going to Canada. It seems like he would therefore be deported to Jordan who would then coordinate with the PA (and Israel) to have him sent back to the West Bank. Or they could stick him in a refugee camp in Jordan. These details ought to be made clearer in stories about this situation.
King_David
(14,851 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)the concern for this young man being deported from Canada to a place he cannot be deported to is touching indeed and that is your first concern right, the fate of John Calvin?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I bet you can find the full text of it online.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)To a Gay - medieval place that he says will kill him because he was born Gay is "colorful "?
Only in this group.
Let me tell you that Defense of Gay rights and Gays in distress and abhorrence of homophobia are DU values and anything less than that has no place on DU.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)and what becomes of him after that is laid on the shoulders of that both Canada for deporting him in the first place and the country he's deported to
King_David
(14,851 posts)where he fears death because he was born Gay..... It's totally Backwards.
GeoWilliam750
(2,523 posts)Where somebody has been executed in Palestine for being gay. Not a gay person that was executed for murder or being a spy, or some other crime, but simply because he was gay.
It would be very interesting to see the list.
King_David
(14,851 posts)The Gay Palestinian refugee is claiming if he's returned to Palestine his life will be in danger.
I don't need go look for anything else your asking for, the OP says precisely that.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)I'd think that would be rather important
King_David
(14,851 posts)Who unlike you and me actually comes from Palestine is fearful for his life because he's gay.
Are you trying to say you know better than him?
Are you saying that it's okay to be Gay in Palestine ?
Cos somehow you know better than this Gay Palestinian.
Palestine where it comes to Gays is a cultural backwater of a place and you should be abhorred by homophobia.
I don't think anything civil is left to say and I find it very distasteful and homophobic should anyone try whitewash homophobia be it in Russia, Uganda, Palestine, IS or Iran. So don't even try that please it has no place on DU.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)your comment did not address the question
King_David
(14,851 posts)the Gay Palestinian guy says will mean certain death if he goes back there?
I hope not...
And your demand is totally IRRELEVANT.
And I will not continue this very distasteful line that this conversation has gone down
And we are done here.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)I really don't get it
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)It's like if you don't name names, Palestine is actually a haven for gays (and women). Ticky tacky bullshit just to deflect from the fact that gays are targets in Palestine as well as just about every other Muslim dominated country in the world. Utter and complete bullshit which is nothing but an embarrassing display of proving Bill Maher right.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)From the article:
"The Canadian government believes the 24-year-old is, or was, a member of the Palestinian militant organization Hamas and therefore is ineligible to seek asylum in Canada as a refugee.
But Calvin fled his chaotic upbringing under one of the most notorious pro-Hamas families in Palestine at the age of 19, which is why he says he has taken on a new name, and a new life, in Canada.
Also from the article:
"After a huge fight with his family in 2005, Calvin ran away from home and fled into Israel, where he was detained for not having the proper documentation to enter the country."
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Because deportation to Jordan has come up, it is good to understand the state of law there.
It is not illegal to be gay, but they are not protected from discrimination.
Jordan does not have any laws against homosexuality; it does not, however, protect civil liberties for people facing discrimination on basis of their sexual preferences, says Madian, a local activist.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)He also says that while some victims have been the target of honour killings, others have been killed by gangs because they had to seek impoverished and dangerous areas for sexual favours to avoid the scrutiny of friends and families.
Nevertheless, despite such individual cases, the topic of homosexuality seems to be increasingly tolerated in Jordan. In 2012, a book called Arous Amman (Ammans fiancée) by Fadi Zaghmout was published, featuring a homosexual character who was driven to marry a woman despite being gay.
Increasingly, Facebook pages and Twitter accounts are advocating gay rights and the LGBT community in the country.
The LGBT community has been able to carve a space for itself in society, while staying away from anything that could raise its profile, says Adam Coogle, a researcher at Human Rights Watch.
http://www.ipsnews.net/2014/08/jordans-lgbt-community-fears-greater-intolerance/