Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumReuven Rivlin has proven that he is president of the real Israel
His radical speech to the Herzliya Conference was remarkable, first of all, because it was true: he revealed that something even Israel's politicians refuse to acknowledge.By Asher Schechter | Jun. 9, 2015
On July 24, Reuven Rivlin will mark his first year as Israels president. Just three months into his term, in October, he became the first Israeli president to attend a memorial for the 1956 Kafr Qasem massacre, in which Israeli Border Patrol officers shot and killed 47 Israeli Arabs. In the months since, Rivlin has continued to boldly embrace his role as Israels collective conscience, defending the rights of Palestinians and of Arab-Israelis and other minorities and speaking out against intolerance, on occasion to the chagrin of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
But this week, speaking at the 2015 Herzliya Conference a prestigious gathering that has become a centerpiece of Israels political calendar Rivlin may have made his boldest move yet: He told the uncomfortable truth about the country of which he is president. He told its people that the country many of them think they live in does not exist.
Israel, Rivlin said, is fast becoming a tribal state composed of four groups secular Jews, religious Zionist Jews (also called national religious), ultra-Orthodox (Haredi) Jews and Arabs, all of them fearful, hostile to one another and even to members of their own group. Today, the first grade classes are composed of about 38 percent secular Jews, about 15 percent national religious, about one quarter Arabs, and close to a quarter Haredim, Rivlin noted. He said the demographic processes that these numbers represent have created a new Israeli order ... in which there is no longer a clear majority, nor clear minority groups and consisting of four principal tribes, essentially different from each other, and growing closer in size. Whether we like it or not, the make-up of the stakeholders of Israeli society, and of the State of Israel, is changing before our eyes.
It was a perceptive analysis that has escaped many Israelis, including, as Rivlin noted, many of its leaders.
in full: http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel/1.660417
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)will become more apparent as their numbers grow--especially when combined with those in Palestine.
There's close to zero prospect of the Zionist center-left constituting a majority of the population. The Haredrim and religious Zionists are far right, and the secular jews themselves are divided between Likud/Labor/YB.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)in the next 16 to 18 months the make it or break it for any prospect of a Palestinian state, after that it's over
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)get serious and plan together to have one unified voice. That voice could
include many venues, a clear objective and backing of BDS for two states, the
international court, and civil disobedience...all together, no militant resistance from Hamas.
A struggle that will no doubt include many deaths, regardless, so I am not sitting here
saying such things as if their struggles will not come without a great deal more sacrifice
should they make the attempt.
I just don't know if there is any other realistic means to turn the balance of power around.
They have been beaten down so many times.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Not two or one.
Probably will become de facto so.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Sort of like MRA's telling me what women want, really.
King_David
(14,851 posts)It's even more funny when people with absolutely no connection to the area whatsoever, not involved in the struggle whatsoever presume they lead the Palestinians.
That's even funnier.
Reminds me of the Mondoweiss crowd such as Alex Kane who tweeted advise to Hamas during the Gaza War to reject the ceasefire. Or the ISM who really want and encourage western tourists of the conflict to lead the Palestinians .
That's even more funny.
From your post :
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)yeah, it's funny, isn't it? Maybe you should stop?
King_David
(14,851 posts)Obama :
The ultimate goal is two states for two people: Israel as a Jewish state and the homeland for the Jewish people and the State of Palestine as the homeland for the Palestinian people -- each state in joined self-determination, mutual recognition, and peace.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)it may shock you, but having a bris does not actually make you an authority on the situation. It doesn't make your opinion more valid. It does not place you in any point of privilege here. it certainly doesn't give you a position to speak for the minds and hearts of Palestinians.
Response to Scootaloo (Reply #17)
King_David This message was self-deleted by its author.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Israeli
(4,171 posts)In the land of leaders leading imaginary lands, politicians who face reality head-on are a rare breed. Also at the Herzliya Conference, opposition leader Isaac Herzog repeated cliches of yore, such as disengagement from the Palestinians as if thats still possible, as if the two-state solution can simply be revived. Warning that the creation of a binational state would endanger Israel, Herzog ignored the fact that the binational state is already being created.
Whether they are trying to segregate buses on the West Bank or they believe that boycotting the boycotters is a recipe for foreign-relations success, Israeli politicians seem to be disengaged from reality, lost in solipsism. Theirs is a country where acts have no consequences, where cultural and demographic shifts trends are meaningless or transient.
But there is a real Israel, even if its politicians refuse to acknowledge it.
More a federation of tribes than a unified society, it is on the verge of radical change. Its people often live in fear of each other. It has a richness of culture, of languages and sensibilities, but it is also incredibly ethnocentric and extremely exclusionary. It can redefine itself. It must redefine itself. But in order for that to happen, its leaders must first come to terms with its real face.
Mosby
(16,426 posts)First off there are several main secular Jewish groups in Israel, one are Ashkenazik "white" European leftists like you, and then there are the indigenous Arab Jews (Brown, mizrahi) who are part of the Likud.
It's interesting that in Israel the right is formed from mostly brown people, immigrants and religious folks, while the left is mostly European whites.
Bet most people don't know this.
Israeli
(4,171 posts)...so for sure he is " wrong about a lot of things " .
in Israel the right is formed from mostly brown people, immigrants and religious folks,
No argument there Mosby......you are correct .
Ask yourself why .
My grandparents were born in Europe Mosby......I was born here .
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)I'm surprised everyone doesn't know this.