If a Palestinian state is established, for example, will Assad embrace his domestic foes? Will Ahmadinejad reconcile with his enemies? Will Libya’s militias make up? Will Yemen regain even a hint of stability? And what does one have to do with the other at all?


Hezbollah used similar logic. The organization gained its fleeting glory during the war it fought against the IDF on Lebanese soil. Yet once that conflict ended, the group lost its legitimacy in the Arab world. Hezbollah would happily revive its conflict with Israel, yet it realizes that the Jewish state is powerful and has the means to destroy the organization this time around.


The first to realize their stock crashed were the Palestinians. Abbas’ decision to approach the United Nations last September was a desperate move. He knew developments were not playing out in his favor. After all, if the region’s real problems are finally being addressed, there is no longer any need for the Palestinian facade.


Who would actually care whether Abbas joins forces with Hamas’ Khaled Mashaal or not? Is there anyone actually affected by this? When the entire Mideast is burning, the Palestinian issue comes off the agenda. This is the reason why international networks such as CNN or France2 are leaving Israel at this time or closing down their offices. The Israeli conflict is not longer a story, with the focus shifting to Damascus, Cairo and Tripoli.

Classic Zionism in Migron

Our role as Zionists is still not finished: Our rabbis teach us that “The poor of your own city take priority” (Talmud, Baba Metzia.) Classic Zionist challenges still confront us, as they did in the days of the pioneers. The Sarahs, Daliahs and Rinahs have not finished their task of holding on to the Nachal settlements in the Sinai. They and their children are needed to continue settling the Promised Land - all of it.

Yes, the hilltop settlers in Judea and Samaria are the modern successors of the same settlement movement that Yosef Trumpeldor worked for in Tel Chai, Shlomo Ben Yosef in Rosh Pina and Rabbi Shtamper in Petach Tikva. Settlement of Judea and Samaria has led to the renewal of the concepts of working the land, planting vineyards and development of the wine industry in this region during the last two decades.

This is the realization of the words of the prophet Jeremiah, simply put: “You will yet plant vineyards in the Samarian hills.” (Jeremiah 71:4). Rocky hills, which for hundreds and thousands of years had not been cultivated, are again favoring their residents, who are building homes, planting vineyards, and bearing native sons and daughters on them.

Now, a large percentage of the founders of hilltop communities and their residents are the second generation in Judea and Samaria - sons and daughters who were born, raised and educated there. The descriptive phrase “salt of the earth” is well suited to many of the leading forces of the settlement expansion movement today. They are handsome, educated youth, devoted to the Zionist ideal of settling the Land and establishing Israeli society within it, ready to give their time and their strength for the good of the nation.

the whole original article is how israel is infact not the center of conflict within the region and you, it appears, can't let go.

any conversation that doesn't involve how "evil" israel is, you're either not a part of, or as in this case, you attempt to bring back to show how infact israel is the core of the conflict.....you need a new hobby

its really an excellent example of what the OP is all about....

... the British partition of the Ottoman Empire after 1918 was as haphazard and messy as monkeys at a salad bar. The Brits - being big fans of the Hashemite Family proceeded to set them up as kings of arbitrary lines on a map and then left them and the other clans to fight out the details (a scenario that continues until this day). Jordanians hate the Saudis, Iranians hate Iraqis, Jordan and Iraq hate Syria for what they did to Lebanon and so on, and so on...

...It's just so much easier for everyone to hate the Jews.

and if that doesn't work wail that everything is always blamed on Israel

the Arab on Arab death porn going on in Egypt and especially Syria must make for a good diversion but it just doesn't work the article gave it away Israel is pinning its hopes on Arabs killing Arabs to divert attention away from the Palestinians, and that really has little to do with what is happening in other Arab countries

and so many other examples of arab-on-arab violence are far more prevalant than Israels presence. That is the gist of the article. Yet, you disproprortiately ascribe so much to Israel. Do you have anything to say about Syria's occupation of Lebanon since 1976?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_occupation_of_Lebanon

You did read the first paragraph of the wiki article you linked to, right?

I did read the first paragraph. Why does Syria continue to occupy Lebanon?

thats a start I suppose.

Syria's occupation of Lebanon is generally accepted as having ended in 2005. Of course, Syria still has plenty of influence there, in the same way that the US has plenty of influence in Latin America (spies, funding, covert operations and so forth). But that is not the same as an occupation.

The impetus for the military occupation to come to an end, yet Syria still continues to control Lebanon's government.

So Guy Bechor from YNET speaks for Israel now? And you think that's what he wrote about in the article? Maybe you need to take a break from I/P.

And spare us your crocodile tears for Palestinians.

Tell me, do you support the Arab world's "look over there at Israel" policy of the last 60 years? Yes or No? Really simple question, let's see if you can answer it. I'm thinking you do. Am I wrong?

which are not always facts in the rest of the world but oh well

"Tell me, do you support the Arab world's "look over there at Israel" policy of the last 60 years? Yes or No? Really simple question, let's see if you can answer it. I'm thinking you do. Am I wrong? "

if your claims were true you might have a point however they are quite untrue so now what shira will we be seeing more vids, that prove your stance and will they be hmmm PMW, CAMERA, MEMRI I can hardly wait

Last edited Wed Feb 15, 2012, 10:38 AM - Edit history (1)

the Arab world did and does have a so called "policy" of look at Israel when it comes to Palestinians however and especially of late the Arab world is quite busy with its own problems and has been for quite awhile

now have your vids all queued up?

Because that's the case, does that then mean that nobody should discuss the Palestinian issue or express any concern over Israel's polcies towards them or the gradual stealth annexation of "Judea and Samaria"?

Does it offend you that this issue is discussed on this board, and not the violence in other Middle Eastern countries?

You do understand that this group deals specifically with the Israel/Palestine issue, don't you? You can find discussion about other Middle Eastern problems in the Foreign Affairs group, if you are so inclined.

That's the point of the OP - the disproportional emphasis placed on Israel vis-a-vis the rest of the arab world. Do we see many posts on Foreign Affairs for the plight of the Kurds and their quest for their own independent nation? How about the ethnic cleansing genocide in Sudan? Yet, we read post after post on this forum about some imagined slight committed by Israel. It borders on racism and antisemitism.

that don't involve anti-semitism. Hmmm... what other reasons could there possibly be?

Hey! One thing that occurs to me is that there doesn't seem to be a contingent of DUers who oppose Kurdish national aspiratation and argue against their legitimacy at every opportunity. There also doesn't seem to be anyone defending ethnic cleansing and genocide in Sudan.

Is it possible that very little disagreement = little debate and argument = less volume of discussion?

Naw, it's gotta be that there's just tons of anti-semites on DU, and they somehow manage to go on posting without being banned. Yup, that makes much more sense.

And while we're on the subject, why aren't you on the Foreign Affairs board posting about those issues? You're not one of those evil racists too, are you?

when someone posts something positive about the current Iranian regime. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002298580

The only reason you don't see lots of threads like this is that the number of DUers who would post such things is vanishingly low. And I wouldn't guess that the OP of that thread is going to last very long here at all.

I think the only reason you don't see oceans of threads attacking the Iranian regime is because it simply doesn't have any defenders here (exception being the OP of that thread and his 16 posts). Most of the people on DU don't want to see either us or Israel go to war with Iran. That doesn't mean we like its government.

Celebrating a repressive regime like Iran, with only 2 supreme leaders in all of that time, would seem antithetical to the vast constituents of this forum. It would be like celebrating the Republican party National Convention.

Normally you don't see that sort of volume of commentary on how bad Iran is. It's only when someone steps up to defend it that a "disproportionate" amount of posts gets generated. If we had a significant contingent of otherwise progressive DUers who were frequently defending or justifying the Iranian government and its policies, we would probably have a volume of Iran posts comparable to the volume of I/P posts that we have. If things got contentious enough, the subject would probably even get its own separate forum.

In a similar sense, I think you see a "disproportionate" amount of posting on Israel because there's a sizeable contingent of DU posters who defend or justify Israeli policies that most progressives would generally see as indefensible.

Interestingly, in that Iran thread, there are a number of posts accusing DUers of "hating" the entire Iranian people on the basis of their criticism of the Iranian regime.

I find the parallels to be quite revealing. You may be too invested in your own interpretations to see what I'm getting at, but maybe not.

no i'm hardly "offended" just fascinated at the way there are those that claim they are only concerned about the Palestinians welfare and then somehow ignore those Palestinians in Lebanon and their way they are treated for example.

perhaps if they made it clear that in fact its not all of the Palestinians and the way they are treated, just those under the israelis, then at least we could get an explanation and learn what it is about the israelis that get them so "worked up."

and then we would understand why, when the Lebanese bomb the trapped Palestenians in their camp, very little is written about it...and its quickly put in the back news

"and then we would understand why, when the Lebanese bomb the trapped Palestenians in their camp, very little is written about it...and its quickly put in the back news"

well it could be that Israel is holding the key as it were as it is Israel that prevents a Palestinian state in the West Bank (I'll wait for the imaginative denials) and that if there were a Palestinian state then the refugee problem may well be solved, but I know it would be so, so very much 'simpler' if those other Arabs would just take the bothersome Palestinian Arabs off Israels hands because we all know an Arab is an Arab is an Arab......right ?

note I feel the possibility of claims that a Palestinian state will not allow Palestinian refugees to live in Palestine that meme was floated a while ago with the ProIsrael rightwing sources to prove it at least to the susceptible

Last edited Sun Feb 19, 2012, 11:08 AM - Edit history (3)

Lebanese bombing the Palestinians trapped in their camp because of Lebanese laws keep them there, is the fault of israel?

....and you really expect me to take your posts seriously?. I guess the Lebanese didn't really have a choice but to kill those Palestinians because its Israel "made them do it."

hey about the Syrians killing Syrians?..is that too Israels fault? The Jordanians in Black September...i believe about 10,000 died at the hands of the Jordanians..is that too israels fault?

didn't Kuwait kick out the Palestinians?....i guess that too is Israels fault.

hmm, tricky question..... how about when Hamas kills their own Palestinians, is that too Israels fault or is Palestinians killing Palestinians an internal matter and not israels fault...or is it? How about in the west bank or If Egypt kills Palestenains in Gaza, is that considered an israeli responsibility?

or maybe after all its not a "tricky question" ....just blame israel

__

I guess we can conclude that everything and anything that happens to the Palestinians is always Israels fault..and that is how we get to the "Original Sin Theory"

since israel was born in sin, at best it can only repent and continually for ever ask for forgiveness from the world for all of the pain and suffering it has caused....

whew at least we cleared up your world view (funny thing about that view, it has the strangest echoes of classic anti-semitism doesn't it, only with a twist.....

Once Israel is destroyed, those palestnians will be safe from Lebanese Persecution. So.....when the Lebanese bomb palestinians in Lebanon, it is clearly the fault of the jews.