But I suppose you can't expect any different in a state that defines itself by things as transitory and vague as religion or ethnicity.

those of their own faith that do not agree with them.

The Reform Movement is the largest in the US and is responsible for a significant percentage of the contributions and funding that Israel relies on. From time to time, the ultra right wingers in Israel rebel and declare that Reform Judaism is not Jewish enough and then calmer heads prevail when contributions slow down

and that does not address conversions either

That is cutting their nose to spite their face

I can't believe this.
Somebody here does this very same thing. They decide who is Jewish and who isn't. Isn't it up to the person to declare what they are themselves? I felt a bit of déjà vu reading this.

But only at the circus.

Since Israel is asking for Jewish recognition by the Palestinians, this is a
relevant thread, imo.

Hamas doesn't differentiate between Israelis and Jews.
The BDS movement wants any Jewish business or event boycotted .
When people talk about Apartheid Picnics or the oppressed becoming oppressors they mean Jews.
Just about everyone on one side of the topic here pretends it's about Israel and not Jews.
Israel is after all The Jewush State.
So for myself I see no problem with posting Jewish Affairs here in IP. The IP group and Jewush group should just be merged.

I suggest you request the administration about the merge.

This group is labeled Israeli/Palestine, not The Jews/Palestine Group.

Ask Skinner why there is that differentiation. In the mean time, invite anyone from any group
on DU to come here..the more the merrier. I/P is not allowed as a topic anywhere but here, unless
it is under Latest Breaking News.

This OP is still standing and Mosby deleted his post after requesting the thread be pulled.

This OP is relevant due to the request by the Israeli government for Palestinians to identify
Israel as the Jewish state..the US does not do this in any official capacity, nor does Israel.
If the members of Israel's government can decide who is and who is not a Jew, then the
Palestinians had better listen up to this conversation. Evidently, the gentleman sees himself
as an expert on who is and who is not Jewish..similar to your arrogant point of view.

Your opinions about people who talk about Hamas, BDS, apartheid, oppressed becoming the oppressor, means Jews.
These people you are referring to are pretending this is about Israel but it's the Jews...so you say.

A qualifier you have completely left from your list is, the occupation. Just that small insignificant little thing..hmm.

It is about Israeli occupation, and this has gone on for well over 40 fucking years.
It has not gone on for all these years because they're Jewish, it has persisted due in
part because they do not want to cede any territory they took through war..even though
international law tells them otherwise. It also persists in part, because the US has the crazy
ass MP's of Israel's back, politically speaking.,,and through enormous aide we are complicit.


You may believe you speak for all Jews, but you don't..not by a long shot.

You don't speak for B'Tselem, nor Gisha, nor Rabbis for Human Rights, to name a few, nor American Jewish groups against
the occupation and all the human rights abuses they have documented all these years.

You speak for you...I think that is more than you can handle.

It may not be Jew/Palestine group but it seems you guys ( experts on Jews) post every single article on Jews in this forum .

This article has everything to do with Jews and fuck all to do with Israel except for the fact the idiot who said it lives in Israel but he could easily have been from NYC.

There's lots of experts on Jews in this group and none of them are Jewish. .

The OP has everything to do with the conflict...wise up.

Israel is demanding Palestinian recognition as a Jewish state..this asshole has already declared
Jews he does not like to be non Jews. The impact that would have on Palestinians rights
is relevant.

You must have a crystal ball to know who is Jewish here and who is not..your arrogance is
hilarious, at times.

So I am looking for articles to post on "the nutritional value of oranges and
vitamin C"in this forum .

But been here long enough to have a good idea.

I also have a pretty good idea on who's gay ( no crystal ball either).
But the concept of "gaydar" was never well understood or appreciated by the straight world.

I remember the website you use to be a member of, prosemite undercover, new
name here, but the same nonsense.

Never was a member there so maybe it's you who needs to polish your mirror.

Documentation is all that is necessary.

Sometimes I go read vile extreme right wing websites such as Stormfront or David Duke ( know thy enemy) and some posts are very much the same as some bigotry posted here by some. I never would think of linking up such "documentation " for fear of retribution.

King_David
36. Been tried here before and wasn't tolerated by Lithos cos it's not true,

View profile
Sometimes I go read vile extreme right wing websites such as Stormfront or David Duke ( know thy enemy) and some posts are very much the same as some bigotry posted here by some. I never would think of linking up such "documentation " for fear of retribution.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113457431#post36

We was talking documentation .

Quite the dramatic post u got there... You thought it was a "gotcha" ?

and it was the documentation quote

Because they scared of what may happen . ( same as what happened to quit a few of them in the LGBT group )And yet they all experts on Jews.

And as for MK David Rotem he's an IDIOT who will be censured .

Israel hasn't asked any other countries to confirm that they are Jewish. Presumably they think that the Palestinians have some sort of expertise in the matter.

Maybe they could also ask the Palestinians to advise whether Reform Jews are Jewish or not.

Or they should ask this crowd of people on DU that are such experts on Jews .

including personal dislike, but I have posted in the LGBT group

What's their fear?

'cause gee whiz I thought it was the legislative branch of the Israeli government

That some idiot member of Knesset said some idiotic thing about Jews was as relevant to IP as if it were said by a Lubavitcher Rebbe in NYC.

or what?

With absolutely nothing to do with IP , was posted in this forum.

So I'm not sure what your going in about?

Same difference.
Or the Pope.
Or Vladimir .
Or one of the muppets.

not a Lubavicher Rebbe in NYC

Many posters in the I/P group(including many who support Israel's continued existence)post critical comments about the Israeli government. In my observation, those people don't have any negative opinions about or prejudice against Jews, any of the world's various Jewish communities, or about any form of religious Judaism. In fact, we call out the actual anti-Semites and help get them banned from DU when they show their ugly heads.

If we don't post in the Jewish group, it's simply because we don't feel the need to. Those are internal discussions for one particular group of people, most of whom, for the record, aren't Israeli and aren't posting on issues with any connection to the I/P situation.

You're just going to have to accept, once and for all, that opposition to the way the Israeli government treats Palestinians is not equivalent to anti-Semitism.

The true enemy of Israeli Jews and Jewish people in the Diaspora is Binyamin Netanyahu. He is the one endangering those people more than anybody else, with his pointless and inflammatory insistence on building enough settlements in the West Bank that it will soon be impossible to create a viable Palestinian state, with his brutal insistence on punishing ALL Palestinians for the actions of the violent extremist few, and with his bloody-minded and totally unjustified push for a military attack on Iran.

'Those are internal discussions for one particular group of people, most of whom, for the record, aren't Israeli and aren't posting on issues with any connection to the I/P situation. '

Agree 100%

You just described this OP to a T.

well at least when they say something stupid

Oh well.

If I recall, he posts numerous OP's about vacationing spots in Israel...not sure what category that
goes under about I/P.

If one of the arguments that's made for the kind of unquestioning defense of the Israeli government and all that it does is how comparatively "liberal" Israel is as opposed to Palestine(which shouldn't be the point, since those who take a more Palestinian-sympathetic position aren't necessarily arguing that a person has to choose which of the two places they'd personally prefer to live in)
It's pertinent to the I/P discussion when illiberal trends(such as the one listed in the OP)appear.

And it's about a debate going on within Israel, not amid every Jewish community on the planet, so it isn't particular to an ethnicity or a religion(or, more properly, a set of religion).

The subject of the OP(and it's not one that was on the top of my own list of concerns)was tolerance in Israeli society, and what a reduction in tolerance might mean to the nature of the state and the possible policies that state might pursue in future. It's also pertinent because the MK being quoted in the OP is a member of the governing party.

You can't just put discussions about Israel as a country off limits to gentiles, which is what I'm fairly sure is what your intent was in calling(facetiously, I hope)for the merger of the I/P and Jewish groups.

This OP is about an internal Jewish matter .

MK David Rotem said Reform movement is 'another religion” and that its members 'aren’t Jewish.' ADL’s Foxman calls remarks 'offensive and unjustified.'

By Chemi Shalev | Feb. 5, 2014 | 11:19 PM

The President of the Union for Reform Judaism Rabbi Rick Jacobs is demanding that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Knesset Chairman Yuli Edelstein reprimand MK David Rotem and depose him from his position as Chairman of the Knesset’s Constitution, Law and Justice Committee.

Jacobs described as “offensive and unacceptable” Rotem’s statements on Tuesday by which the Reform movement is “another religion” and that its members “aren’t Jewish.” Jacobs said that Rotem “doesn’t know what he’s talking about and doesn’t understand the damage that he causes.”

The Chairman of the Anti-Defamation League Abe Foxman also blasted Rotem urging him to retract his “inappropriate, offensive and unjustified” comments. “Among many U.S. non-Orthodox Jews,” Foxman said, “rejectionist rhetoric of this kind fosters divisiveness and feelings of alienation towards elements of Israeli society.”

Jacobs told Haaretz that members of the United States Congress who are also enraged by Rotem’s statements are to send a letter of protest to Netanyahu against the statements made by “a member of his coalition and his own Likud-Beiteinu Party,” as Jacobs described him.

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/.premium-1.572700

MK Rotem: I didn't say Reform is not Jewish

"Belonging to the Reform Movement does not make anyone less Jewish," Knesset Law, Constitution and Justice Committee chairman David Rotem (Likud Beytenu) said Thursday.

"Comments attributed to me regarding the Reform Movement have been misinterpreted by elements within the media. I have never said belonging to the Reform Movement makes anyone less Jewish," Rotem wrote on Facebook.


http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/MK-Rotem-I-didnt-say-Reform-is-not-Jewish-340564


Fire Him !!

A member of the Israeli legislative government was slammed for his alleged comments about Reform Judaism on Wednesday, after media outlets reported David Rotem stating, "The Reform movement is not Jewish … they are another religion."

The statement shocked members of the Jewish community worldwide, especially as characterizing the Reform movement as another religion has political implications relating to Israel's Law of Return, which prevents non-Jews from making aliyah, or immigrating to Israel. The Jewish Telegraphic Agency reported that a statement released by Israel's Reform movement explained that by using the term "another religion," Rotem effectively stated that "Reform Jews have no place in Israel."

Gilad Kariv, executive director of the Reform movement in Israel, called on the Knesset speaker to reprimand Rotem, who is the Knesset Law, Constitution, and Justice Committee chairman. He said, "An assertion such as this makes it impossible for lawmaker Rotem to continue to chair discussions on sensitive issues such as conversion, who is a Jew and other topics that are associated with religion and state matters, and the relationship between Israel and the Diaspora," according to Haaretz.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/06/david-rotem-reform-jews_n_4737803.html

Someone gave him a talking to.

The key issue is whether a reformed Jew is subject to the law of return and the Israeli Supreme Court is the body with jurisdiction over this issue http://www.jewishfederations.org/page.aspx?id=28914

JERUSALEM, Feb. 20 (JTA) -- Non-Orthodox Jews both inside and outside Israel are celebrating a historic court ruling recognizing Reform and Conservative conversions as valid and binding upon the Jewish state.

Given the complexity of Israeli society, however, Wednesday's ruling by Israel's High Court of Justice is not binding on the Israeli rabbinate.

The result is that the Interior Ministry must now register Israelis who had Reform or Conservative conversions as Jews on their national identification cards -- but the rabbinate will not consider them Jews for "personal status" issues such as marriage or burial.

Orthodox leaders have condemned the ruling, and it is not clear if the Interior Ministry, which is run by the fervently Orthodox Shas Party, will abide by it.