I would have a family meeting if you have one to discuss how you all can help your sister. If you don't, I would contact your State social services and see what services they can offer her
You have more than you can handle as the caregiver for your hubby. God bless and keep us informed.

..and if that means shutting the bathroom door to scream and cry and have a glass of rose all by yourself..then thats what it takes.

(((hugs)))

As a Caregiver you Give.... to others. The hard part is making sure you have hope and care for yourself... otherwise you drain yourself by caring for others and leave yourself empty and hopeless.
I find that sitting on the pot and stinking up the place is invigorating and your loved ones will have aroma therapy to stimulate some humor or at least an awareness of You!!

the best help from a support group for spouses of family members with mental illness or dementia. They might give you some ideas on what services or strategies you can do for care of your sister and your husband.

You are a good soul to care for them, but you need to have peace sometimes too.

Went to the hospital for a week. Best thing that has ever happened for me. It was a safe place with others in the same boat. Just tell them you need help and are suicidal.
Best of luck.

suicide.

to get that kind of help.

Even a couple of hours?

or some medication didn't work out that there was a whole pharmacy for depression now. Plus there are all sorts of others things - like Ketamine, LSD, Mushrooms and my favorite - ECT.

A lot of people freak at the thought of ECT but the reason I go it is throughout my life I have had at least 4 people tell me it was great. And it really is. I think of it as like rebooting a computer.

Take care of yourself. You have a lot on your plate right now.

It works and is now painless. Saves a lot of life’s now.

I wish I was there to help you. There are no easy answers with MH issues. I've been were you are. It's unbelievably difficult. Don't blame yourself for feeling angry or even depressed yourself. When my mom was alive I got her involved with adult daycare a couple days a week. It gave us both a break, I went through area of aging

I will report back after today's Kaiser Permanente session with the social worker/therapist/?. I don't have Kaiser and have a hard time with it as my sister is also tech challenged. Today we made sure she was still on autopay for bills.

She questions every little thing. Sadly getting help is expensive. We're in an HMO now thanks to Covid booting some SAG members from a PPO. And of course now there is way too much demand and not enough help.

Thanks again. I have more questions than time.

is terrible by itself. Do you have any other family members who can be brought in to help in any way? Could you go yourself to a mental health clinic or even your doctor, and explain you are at the breaking point? Is there a neighborhood senior center you could turn to for some guidance in getting some kind of help? Does your County or town have some kind of Senior Services office?

So very sorry you are having to go through this.

She gave up living in her home when he got married last year. It's a small place. Our brother took her in for 6 weeks. But then his wonderfully helpful wife got really sick with MAC. Probably exacerbated by my sister's behavior. I talked to her today. We both try talking sense to her. But it's just an endless loop of paranoia.

I did not see this coming. I could tell she wasn't all that keen to live with us last summer. She's had chronic pain that hasn't been fixed by anyone at Kaiser. Then again she's not living in the area she belongs to. As I understand it, you need referrals and approvals and she's been in San Diego with my brother, Costa Mesa with us and her house in North Hollywood. The HMO system is horrible for mental health problems like hers. I gather it is good for some types of cases.

You don't want it, but doing what's best isn't doing what's easiest or what you want.

They're not getting better and neither are you.

You've done all the right things and have run out of ideas and hope.

So do this:

Pick up the phone. Start calling.

https://www.nih.gov/health-information/health-info-lines

Put in one hour of effort over a day or two until you find some. You might be surprised at the help you get once you tell the person on the line what you've said here.

Be concrete. Answer all question truthfully about yourself and your family.

Take dated notes -- time, org name, person spoken to, what info they gave you.

No one can do this for you. But you must, must do this.

FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH (MY BEING, TECHNICALLY, A NON-BELIEVER), GOD BLESS YOU!

Any of us can only do so much. The medical conditions of both your sister and husband are beyond your capacity to address alone, as much as you may love them, and want to be there for them. You need respite care.

If your health collapses from too much, what then?

If there are any resources you can tap into for assistance, whether through your community, your local government or health carriers, please reach out for whatever assistance is available. No one person can do it all. You need help and I hope you can find it.

Her paranoia would seem to indicate that this is the case.

your family members.

By the way, are either of them combat veterans? If so , GO to the V.A. office. Go. Don't call. There is one office in almost every county in the nation.

The stress of caregiving for a partner with dementia is immense. Statistics tell us that the caregiver often succumbs to stress related disease because it’s such hard work. My mother cared for my dad with Alzheimer’s and she died first…she was only 68. She was so depressed that she took her own life. My sister and I took over caring for my dad until he passed a year later. Caring for your sister is over the top and bless you for trying. I’m worried about you. I hope something breaks loos for your sister and she accepts some help. Please keep talking to us here…I want you to be okay.

My husband is ill with the undiagnosed condition they think might be BLD but I have zero support also and can very much identify with your situation.

Your sister is too much on top of it all for you and you need to lessen your stress and workload. As hard as it is.

She needs to be somewhere else for care. You need to be careful as well. Please message me to vent if you wish. I could also use the company.

Major hugs.

the suicide hotline. They can give you guidance.

I'm so sorry for everything that's piling up on you.

Sending you good DU vibes ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

If any of you is a Vet, start there. You may qualify for outside in home caregivers for respite.

Another angle is getting yourself placed for getting paid for being the caregiver.

Also, you can become the person in charge of the Social Security deposits, which would enable you to hire caregivers for respite. You won't get rich, but you may get enough personal relief to help you. I did this for my Mom, and I didn't need an attorney. I spent some time in the local SS office, filled out stuff, and I gained a truly useful tool to help my Mom. No, it's not your money! Heh heh, but you get to spend his/her money on stuff that they need. I'd do it for both of them. You need counseling in that regard; SS will help you. It's an honor to do this for someone.

You can't possibly care for two disabled people 24/7 without breaking down yourself. Take what board members are telling you about this to heart. This is a hard gig. One person is hard enough. Two disabled will rapidly turn into three. Who's gonna take care of you?

Money is always a problem to solve for the more modest of us. Rich people just hire out. Don't be shy about lining up your ducks. Figure it out, be creative.

One thing that might come down the road at you is loss of the ability to get your loved ones in to see their Docs. If they can't climb into your car, that's going to be a big problem. Be aware of it. It doesn't sound like you are there yet. Always make sure they wear their seatbelts.

Sweetie, keep trying. Never feel guilty if you have to place one or both of them. You can cry, but don't quit.

Your sister picked one hell of a time to fall apart.

There is family therapy available with a Lic. Sw. They're in the book and won't break the bank, they're masters prepared social workers who might be able to sort a lot of things out for you, if not for your sister. Go alone if she won't go, with hubby in tow if you have to.

If your sister flatly refuses to go, it's time to tell her to find another place to live. Your husband is your priority, he absolutely can't cope on his own.

It's a tough situation all around, but you end up too sick to cope, you won't do either of them any good. With her living elsewhere, you might find you have a little energy left over to use to help her, like talking her into seeing a real doctor for her nerve pain, deep massage does diddly squat for that. Once she's not in so much pain, she might start making more sense.

offer in addition is hugggggggs and vibes for best possible outcome for all. Your DU family is here for you, so lean as hard as you need.

Take some deep breaths. You are doing there best you can under the circumstances. Does she have any close friends that she can talk with?

I forced one of them on her and she has been helpful in understanding Kaiser and it's system.

But you know that because I can see that all your internal alarm bells are going off.
They are going off for good reason because your situation is serious and complicated.

I am a retired mental health professional with 40 years clinical experience.
My clinical alarm bells are going off too and I don't rattle easily.

Your mentally ill sister is depressed, psychotic and paranoid.
She is actively talking suicide, and is trying to get you involved with the planning
and execution of her suicide.

I must point out that paranoid psychosis is one of the more dangerous mental health diagnoses.
The paranoid patient truly feels others are out to get them and therefore can take aggressive measures
to protect themselves. We already know she has thoughts of death and dying, and is acting out.

She is rejecting all forms of professional and support system intervention.
Additionally you and your husband are older, and he has dementia, a vulnerable person.

This is a bad situation which is getting worse by the day. I don't like where this can end.

I am going to be blunt here Sleepless. It is high time for you to call your nephew and brother.
And tell them that one of them needs to come get your sister. She has lived with them before and apparently was
more stable. All the moving around is not helping her condition. She needs to be with one of them
and be hospitalized and obtain treatment. If she is suicidal with a plan she can be pink slipped.

You have a duty to yourself and to your ill husband, to keep both of you safe.
So I would be assertive with your family and spell it out for them. If the situation continues
as is, it is heading for protective services and the state will sort it out.

Oh please remove all weapons or dangerous items from your home asap.

This is my .02, hope it helps.

I need to clarify that she has admitted she wasn't serious about committing suicide. Though I don't rule our that she may have been that morning. She says she is selfish. We talk through her feelings of being selfish and I remind her that she was trying hard to help others, but she became overwhelmed. Part of all her illness seemed to stem from a chronic nerve pain in her tailbone. She's had it since January 6, 2021. We talked to her case worker yesterday about getting an MRI, which she fears holding still for.

I contacted family yesterday to get help. Going to ask her son, who we see here tomorrow to come and take her for visits at least twice a month.

Today I'm going to help her tidy her room. She has always done so before the onslaught.

Yesterday, when I kept losing my temper my hubby came in to tell us to not argue in the sweetest and funniest way imaginable. I'm a lucky gal to have married him. He's 8 years in and still has his wonderful personality. I treasure our time together. Strangely my sister's illness helps me treasure it all the more.

But I hear you loud and clear. Do not fear for our safety though. I'm more concerned about her paranoia and OCD like behavior. Do you know if that can be treated with a drug?

It is a straightforward risk assessment analysis.

Even if we change some of the metrics, any way I slice it,
my concern about the safety is still there.

She needs to go back to the home where she had easy access to treatment.
Yes her illnesses are treatable. Back and forth visiting is not a good option right now.

Your home needs to be restored to a safe situation for you and your dementia patient
husband. The fact he is now starting to enter the arguments between you and your mentally
ill sister is another big red flag. So your primary concern is to make your home situation safe.
Secondary goal is to insist her son take her home with him and get her into treatment asap.

Last edited Fri Jul 21, 2023, 05:12 PM - Edit history (1)

She needs to be hospitalized. We agree on that. I see her son tomorrow. Sadly he has dealt with her personality traits since his father died at age 44 and he was 15. So her leaving the house to him was quite selfless on her part. His wife will agree with hospitalization.

I will contact her social worker/case manager to help us set up hospitalization.

I hope she is as urgent sounding as you are. So far they just seem to kick the can down the road. The can being all of us.

Thanks again for your concern. Much appreciated.

Last edited Fri Jul 21, 2023, 05:55 PM - Edit history (1)

So far so good.

Raise the same issues you have discussed here with the social worker.

However, your sister cannot be hospitalized against her will unless she is deemed a threat to self or others.

I still believe she needs to live with your nephew or brother.
I think is unfair for you to have to be a caregiver to two family
members, and placed in harm's way, when there are others who could help.

I am glad to help. I don't usually like to butt into other people's business, but when I saw your post
I was quite concerned.

And you are the deep weeds of a difficult situation, taking care of everyone else, you have forgotten to take care of yourself. Edit to add: You might want to think about getting your own support system, starting with a good therapist.
Being a caregiver is very stressful.

It sounds like your sister needs psychotherapy, but if that's not available, someone to talk to can take the edge off of things temporarily. A warm line is a free service available for people that need someone to talk to, usually by telephone but possibly also by Zoom. Here is a list of them.

I used to be on Kaiser. They were very good for most things, but when it came to psychotherapy they just seemed to want to find ways not to help. Worse, most of the free services in my area would not help me, because I was not uninsured. A couple of local warm lines were the exception. The people that run them are not highly trained, but they do have some training and they have a good feel for how to help.

Good luck to your sister and to you.

She has continued to lose weight since early May. She is 5'10" weighs 104 lbs. Normally 125. She has trouble eating because she thinks food isn't going down the right pipe. I just made her eat fruit salad as she ate very little supper.

She'll be taken to ER tomorrow in part to test for UTI. Her son and d-in-law will come to take her. If they see signs of her body breaking down, they'll admit her to treat her for anorexia. She's not as thin as some, but she is scary thin to me.

If they keep her all the tests will be done. This is a Kaiser facility. They are aware of the possibility of her being kept there.

We have back up plans. Sunday close friends can take her for a drive and a walk. She wants to stay in bed. So my fingers are now crossed that she'll spend tomorrow night in the hospital. Otherwise she can be tested Monday when she has an appointment with a new Kaiser primary doctor, a DO. Why there are so many DO's is beyond me.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/consumer-health/expert-answers/osteopathic-medicine/faq-20058168

Just an update.

She has been to see a DO for a physical and had tests by urgent care to make sure her delirium wasn't caused by UTI. Also her weight is causing malnutrition and her paranoia preventing her from drinking the water she needs to have a healthy body and shows dehydration. All tests point to being relatively healthy physically. I have calls into her case manager and psychiatrist. I want to admit her. But I need them to help do so to make this transition as smooth as possible. We have an appt with case manager therapist Friday. As she can't be convinced of who people are and what they do, I hope that will make admission possible. She isn't suicidal. She says she wants to stay here and basically not get better. I'm treating her like a two year old. There is absolutely no reasoning with her.

I've told her I'm on strike and have been rewatching season 1 of The Gilded Age with my hubby. I've also checked up on my own bloodwork and recent checkups. I expect to hear back from my doctor re: BUN/Creatinine Ratio. Never knew about that, but my number is elevated. Pertains to kidneys.

I know I'm procrastinating, but I blame Kaiser Permanente for not being as helpful as they can be.