Neither you nor Jen have any responsibility for any of those events. Of course you know that, but maybe somewhere down inside you're not so sure.

Part of the disorder can be having thoughts that you know are absurd, but there they are anyway, and sometimes they can seem immune to logic.

As a fellow agnostic (and I believe regardless what we call ourselves, we are ALL agnostics), I share your yearning for an ultimate tranquility and "rightness" and a desire to see others "in the flesh" again, for lack of a better term.

Of course you've heard of Pascal's Wager, the idea that we should believe, just in case a God's out there. I'm sure many have accepted those terms through the last 100 years, but in modern "christianity" there's nothing but political bullshit masquerading as "holiness."

Nothing will make me dismiss the condition, misery and suffering of my fellow man; as a "christian" I was raised to be an unquestioning, racist, thing-that-I-detest. My family is most disappointed that I'm not like them, while I thank God (or, you know) that I'm not!

Religion fascinates me somewhat, and I've tried to listen to all viewpoints, many of which (once you get past the control-freak aspects of it) come down mainly to wanting a hereafter where we can do the things you described above. Once, while talking to an older Jewish man about death, etc., he told me "No one is dead as long as someone remembers them."

I think that's true. For me, for you, for Jen's cousin, for your granddad, for Vito. Never let the memories fade and they'll always be alive.

Take care.

I appreciate the words of support.

I can relate to both religious and non-religious people. I think you are right in that the desire for an afterlife is what is at the center of most people's religious beliefs, that is for people who have a heart. I've found, like you, that some very bad people can hide behind the guise of religion in an attempt to justify their hatred. I don't think that is what religion should be about.

I've been down several roads wondering the same things many of us do.
I feel most at home with NA spirituality.
I fits scientific laws and spiritual law too.
I am drawn to many indigenous societies and have the feeling
they'll be the last ones standing, at least the ones who practice
living in unity with nature.
BHN

At first I thought narcotic anonymous..

Sorry, I should have been more specific!

BHN

I find so many of the indigenous beliefs to make more
sense than anything I've ever encountered in my personal
quest to "make sense of it all."
I've had the great fortune to make friends with some
traditionalist elders- GREAT sense of humor combined
with a reverent wisdom about the way things work, seen and unseen.
I grew up in a Congregational Church- caught caught up in
a Mega church for a brief time, and although I fully respect
all people and their beliefs, a church is the last place I would go today
to make sense of life-
Now my Blackfoot friends?
THEY make sense to me.
I can't wait to go and visit them in the spring.
BHN

Immortality in any form, I mean. I honestly don't want to meet people in some afterlife, I'm at peace with death happening. When I'm dead, I want to stay dead. Permanately shutdown and all that. (I won't be at peace if my husband dies, but there's no reason to cling to something I don't even believe in.)

You create and change something on earth, and then you're done and your body turns into earth... or dust, whatever. That's why I find creativity and helping others so important. Plus it's therapeutic to boot!

But after finding happiness in life and then watching people around me age and die...well, it changed my mind. The rational part of me says that this life is all I have and there really isn't any evidence to the contrary. The idealist in me wants to believe that there's something more.