pissing contests discussions.
You won't convince someone who wants more gun control to agree with you and the opposite is true.
So we resort to name calling and put downs.

I don't see my responses in this group as "pissing contests" but many threads seem to end in that result.

I was just hoping that the unfortunate pokes might decrease and each side could occasionally take the other a bit more seriously. I see you in particular as being very reasonable and respectful.

Thanks for the reply

control side here on DU.
You, on the one hand, are reasonable, but there are others here who are very rude and insulting towards DU gun owners.

desperation and a need to elevate themselves as having the high ground.

9 out of 10 only know "guns kill people" the can't honestly answer anything else. So once they've used that what's left???

point taken

Dishonesty is a key block of gun control foundation.

-Josh Sugarmann, executive director and founder of the Violence Policy Center (VPC) and was the communications director for the National Coalition to Ban Handguns

As for infantile metaphors, I don't think it is too much to ask but it is an irresistible siren's call. There are a few here who avoid sinking to such lows but many take glee in acting like Beavis and Butthead.
This exchange is illustrative:
It shows who is serious about gun control and who is simply posting a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

It is a bit sad when some of the flock, including politicians, are taken in by propaganda targeting the masses and quote it as fact.

It's even sadder when they're corrected and shown facts, that they pick themselves up, brush off those facts and continue in ignorance, proud of their purity and ability to remained focused.

I'm astounded.

and tested theory of communication. It is very much alive and well, though we usually call it 'spin'.

It is quite sad but when a person has been presented facts, that they requested from the source they requested, it is no longer ignorance; that is straight up stupid.

I notice several fact denying posters are posting a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument and even gloating over it.

I didn't expect better but from some I hoped for better.

Any honest review of the DOJ/FBI data or state crime data shows that violence, including violence with guns is trending down.

A honest look at the crime statistics show that crime is mostly found in the major urban centers and their immediate suburbs, often regardless of how strict or lenient a state's gun control laws might be.

Instead of trying to fix the economic and social causes of crime, which would require lots and lots of hard work and time from all concerned, they go after an inanimate object.

They do this by the following means:

- By cherry picking single "facts" from fields of data (United Farm Workers)

- By driving rough shod over the truth to sway the minds of the uninformed (Teamsters)

- By building false analogies into walls of propaganda (Construction Unions)

- By short-circuiting and bypassing reasoned discussion and using hyperbole to illuminate their points (International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers)

The list could go on and on. It seems to me that the control side only wishes to obfuscate the issues, whine real loud, and convince those legislators with a (D) behind their name that they are what is right and holy. Then, once the elected officials add more control to the laws, we suffer backlash from the rest of the nation.

Why won't they answer this: What was the primary reason Tom Foley was voted out of office when he was first Speaker of the House to be voted out of office since 1862?