Religion
Related: About this forumDid the Bible get it Wrong? The Hermeneutic Auction
This blog is written by a Canadian ex-Anglican vicar, who became disillusioned with the church, and gradually decided he is, for all intents and purposes, atheist (his wife, suffering from an aggressive form of MS, went to Switzerland for voluntary euthanasia - hence the blog title, and a major topic on the blog). This post derives from a remark by the Archbishop of Canterbury in the dialogue with Richard Dawkins last week:
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Anyway, back to the subject in hand. There is a problem lurking here, and the problem is this. It is simply absurd to suppose that the fact that we came to be as we are through the processes of evolution is not something that we needed to know. It simply wont do to say that the important things that we should know are recorded in the first chapters of Genesis, and the reason is simple. Had we known, from the start, that human beings came to be in a process of evolution lasting billions of years, we would know something that is so important that it would have had to have been taken into consideration from the start the fact, namely, that we are kin to every other form of living thing on the earth, and that we have a responsibility towards the life-world. We could not, then, have thought that the whole of this wondrous plenitude of living being on the earth had come about just for us, but that everything had its own niche, and that that is a vital thing for us to know.
Nor would we have thought, as is still very often the case, that the disasters that happen to us are in any way an expression of gods attitudes towards us, or a punishment or warning for our misdoings. Its very natural for us to wonder, when we have suffered some harm, whether an accident or sickness, what we did to deserve it. The book of Job, for instance, is a wonderful example of the attempt to discern, in the way the world works, whether there is any justice, and the conclusion seems to be that there is no justice at all so far as we can tell, and that all we can do is to submit ourselves to what happens without questioning its justice or injustice, for whatever reasons there might be are too exalted for us to understand. But this is something we needed to know, and if the inspired authors of the Bible had been told about the process of evolution from the start, we could have said, with a great deal of certainty, that the design of the world itself we must suppose the design at this point, since this is something any self-respecting and responsible god would hold to be necessary information for self-conscious creaturres to know, creatures capable of learning about the world, and, in the archbishops words, responding to gods call to relationship with him that is to say, that the design included, as a necessary feature, how chance events bring about the most terrible suffering; and that that suffering has no transcendent meaning or purpose, but is built into the very structure of the system of origins. This is something we needed to know, and the supposition that the only things necessary for us to know have to do with sin and redemption is special pleading.
According to the archbishop, however, we needed to know none of this, and that is, quite frankly, a nonsense. We needed to know it because it is true. Just think of how much misunderstanding would have been avoided had our early ancestors been let in on this particular secret. Instead of wondering, desperately, why things have a tendency to go so badly, we would know, right from the start, that things were designed this way, that god had used the incredibly wasteful process of evolution to bring about life on the planet, and that we are latecomers on the scene, a scene which had already been a few billion years in the making, and one in which things were such as to go wrong, no matter what we might do. That doesnt mean that we didnt need to know that there are other harms, moral harms, that we are responsible for, but at least knowing about evolution, and the long process which preceded our arrival on the scene, would not have led to the wholly absurd notion that the limits of human compassion, and our tendency sometimes to tell lies, or to kill for personal advantage, and other moral faults, had cosmic significance, a supposed significance which, in fact, has led, not only to a disproportionate idea of the significance of human beings, but also to the many harms that we do simply because we differ in our understanding of what in fact this significance consists in.
http://choiceindying.com/2012/02/28/did-the-bible-get-it-wrong-the-hermeneutic-auction/
This is a view I've had for some time too. The moment the bible gets to Adam and Eve, there is blame being thrown around, for the 'sin' of curiosity and disobeying arbitrary rules, and the subsequent gaining of knowledge. The everyday 'suffering', of having to toil to get food, and the danger and pain of childbirth, is directly blamed on this, when in fact it is natural, and in some senses unavoidable. The leaders of the religions, or God if you believe he did inspire the writing, want that to be the message, even if it is meant to be purely an allegory. It's false, so it means either God or the first writer made up a story to make Jews, and subsequently Christians (and Muslims? I'm not sure if this gets into the Koran or not) feel guilty for not obeying authority unquestioningly, when there was no justification for that. (If they'd skipped to Cain killing Abel, then you would have had something approaching a proper morality fable).
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)patrice
(47,992 posts)patrice
(47,992 posts)Last edited Tue Feb 28, 2012, 03:43 PM - Edit history (1)
process of adaptation that occurs as the necessities to which The Bible is inadequate elicit new forms of creative, living learning.
patrice
(47,992 posts), interesting irony there, but then most cognition is, at minimum, incomplete. And most of those who worship The Bible cannot accept this reality.
Thats my opinion
(2,001 posts)It is a book--at least in Genesis--of stories in which a long procession of story tellers tried to make sense out of the important questions. Who are we? What is our origin and out destiny? Why do we suffer? Is there good and evil and what are they made of? Why did grandmother die? on and on and on.
If you mean by inspiration that God whispered in the ears of the story tellers and chroniclers--ala the Koran, then the Bible is not inspired. If you mean that people dug as deep as they could into the mysteries of life, then they were inspired to keep digging.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,414 posts)as Williams claims. Macdonald's point is that a bit of correct, but vastly simplified, explanation of the origin of humans would have been a much better tale to tell in terms of letting humans know what is, or isn't, their fault; so you can conclude it's not inspired by a kindly god.
But my point is not just that it gets the 'science' wrong, in the guess about the origins of the universe and humans, but that its first 'lesson' on the behaviour of humans is 'shut up and follow the rules, or the powers that be will punish you' - and the particular problem is curiosity and the acquiring of knowledge. It's not just not divinely inspired - it's authoritarian and designed to induce guilt (and, arguably, misogynist as well). It answers the questions you list as:
We are followers who are meant to obey any rule given us, and not think for ourselves
Our origin was a gift from a superior being; our destiny, thanks to our misbehaviour, is death
We suffer because we are disobedient
Good is God; evil is us (and a snake ...). God has always existed; we are made of ordinary stuff which it took God to make alive.
grandmother died because she, as a human, was disobedient too.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Individual sin results in separation from god at death, including possible burning in hell for eternity.
Following the law doesn't do much of anything, but atonement via sacrifices is the antidote to individual sin. Neither following the law, nor atonement necessarily result in less suffering which came into the world with Adam's original sin.
Atonement used to be by sacrifices in the form of killing and burning animals on altars. The apparently was unsatisfactory, so god impregnated a virgin who bore his son. The son was killed at around age 30 as the ultimate sacrifice, so burning and killing animals is no longer required, so long as you believe this story.
However, things are still not right, despite the church, guided by the holy ghost working in the world. So at some point 144K of the true believers will be scooped up and the rest of humanity will be put through 1000 years of tribulations. After this, the earth goes poof, and the righteous surround the throne in white raiment, while the unrighteous burn in hell forever.
Frankly, god would have been better advised to have given up on the whole thing at an earlier stage and sunk Noah's boat.
RC
(25,592 posts)The Earth would be better off.