Religion
Related: About this forumWhich came first, religion or mental illness?
This is a response to all those apologists who like to excuse religion's responsibility for the murders committed by troubled individuals.
Even when people claim that God put them up to it, they dismiss the admission because the person had mental issues. Well, where did these issues come from? I contend that they came from the pages of their Holy Books. I contend that the mixture of fantasy and reality leads to breakdowns in logic and reason.
Take the age of the Earth, for example. Can anyone who claims that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, despite the overwhelming evidence, be taken seriously? That person has mental issues. Will these issues lead to violence? For many, no, but I'm keeping my eye on Ken Hamm.
The Orlando shooter is a perfect example of how religion can destroy the mind. His Holy Book tells him that homosexuality is a grave sin. How does he square that with his own identity? Many others in his same predicament end up committing suicide. This is a sorry loss to humanity laid directly at the feet of religion.
Let's take a look at the origin of religion. There's a lot of poppycock being written about how religion solidifies community. How it is a natural development of society. I contend that it's development was due to ignorance, superstition, and hatred. A mental illness trifecta.
Iggo
(47,597 posts)edhopper
(33,667 posts)We are ALL infected.
PeoViejo
(2,178 posts)chasing a handful of magic mushrooms.
eppur_se_muova
(36,317 posts)Not everyone is willing to concede such a distinction exists in any really meaningful way.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)If your neighbor told you your satellite dish was retransmitting alien mind control signals and destroying the fabric of society, you'd think he was completely nuts.
But, if your neighbor told you gay marriage was destroying the fabric of society, you'd think he was on religion.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)that we lock people up or medicate them if they say that a voice in their head is talking to them and telling them what to do (and that they do it), unless they say that the voice is "God" or "Jesus" or "Allah" or some such, in which case we call them the normal ones, and everyone who questions that reality is called intolerant, narrow-minded and bigoted.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)struggle4progress
(118,379 posts)rather than deliberate trolling
The question -- what actually constitutes "mental illness"? -- has been long discussed. One of my favorite quotes on this comes from Edlef Köppen's 1930 novel Heeresbericht, which the Nazis banned in 1935:
This scenario is, of course, also consistent with (say) Soviet psychiatric treatment of dissenters
In the case of personal breakdown of normal processing of sensory data, there may be a number of distinct causes, ranging from actual metabolic or physiological disease to an attempt to reorganize in the throes of psychological crisis. With regard to the later, RD Laing once said
When discussing "mental illness," one may therefore be discussing violated social norms, serious interior personal conflicts, or organic disease processes, and in any particular case might be discussing some extraordinarily complicated interaction of all three
Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)You mean like that?
struggle4progress
(118,379 posts)No religious group to which I have belonged has ever suggested killing apostates, though over the years I have certainly been aware of various people who thought those who disagreed with them should be killed
Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)What's your point?
struggle4progress
(118,379 posts)rather than deliberate trolling
The question -- what actually constitutes "mental illness"? -- has been long discussed. One of my favorite quotes on this comes from Edlef Köppen's 1930 novel Heeresbericht, which the Nazis banned in 1935:
This scenario is, of course, also consistent with (say) Soviet psychiatric treatment of dissenters
In the case of personal breakdown of normal processing of sensory data, there may be a number of distinct causes, ranging from actual metabolic or physiological disease to an attempt to reorganize in the throes of psychological crisis. With regard to the later, RD Laing once said
When discussing "mental illness," one may therefore be discussing violated social norms, serious interior personal conflicts, or organic disease processes, and in any particular case might be discussing some extraordinarily complicated interaction of all three
Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)Gains nothing by repetition
Igel
(35,390 posts)Same sort of question.
The Soviet reference is on point for this. You were mentally ill if you doubted the ideology.
Now, no ideology I've ever been in had more than a small minority of defectives who called for executing those who disagreed. However, there have been and are such ideologies. The USSR, for instance. Or China.
Some religions do not call for death to apostates; some do (ISIS).
Some ideologies do not call for death to apostates; some do (PRNK).
More used to call for death. Catholics, Muslims; Judaism; Communists and Socialists, Fascists. Some progressives really tried to play down what the USSR and China did, but that was just ideological idiocy.
Mental illness is a matter of what's culturally accepted. If you are in a society where prophets have visions and hear voices, then the schizophrenic aren't mentally ill, they're divinely inspired. Or the mentally ill are in part be considered social reformers, if that's their bent.
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)If you did, fear of ridicule, if nothing else, would have prevented this post.
Response to rug (Reply #11)
Post removed
rug
(82,333 posts)jonno99
(2,620 posts)Would a belief in God have constrained the communists from killing 10s (100s?) of MILLIONS of people during the great purges of the 20th century?
Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)Ever kept someone from killing somebody?
rug
(82,333 posts)What an odd way of going through life.
jonno99
(2,620 posts)from picking their nose in public.
(+/- 20%)
NeoGreen
(4,031 posts)...catalyst for them to kill more people.
jonno99
(2,620 posts)And you know this based on what - your feelings?
NeoGreen
(4,031 posts)..."Gott Mit Uns"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gott_mit_uns
Not exactly the selected belt buckles (or war cry) for Peace Corps volunteers or Médecins Sans Frontières.
you feel strongly that the communists would have killed more people in their purges - had they believed in God.
NeoGreen
(4,031 posts)...here endeth the lesson.
jonno99
(2,620 posts)Your feelings notwithstanding, what history actually demonstrates is that the greatest incidences of mass murder were carried out by....?
I'll let you fill in the answer - if you can.
(hint: it wasn't those pesky "religious folks"
Leontius
(2,270 posts)So I won't.
Brettongarcia
(2,262 posts)Why did it rain? A God in the sky did it.
Originally human beings, having little culture, were ignorant to the point of insanity. Later, religious attempts at explaining the universe though, weren't much better.
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Most crimes are committed by perfectly sane people, and the mentally ill are far more often the victims of such crimes, as anyone familiar with the stats will tell you. So crimes committed in thee name of god are probably done by sane people, who are then thrown under the bus in the name of religion.