Religion
Related: About this forumUndeniable evil of religion
rug posted an article about the destruction of buildings in Tibet. This made me think of the destruction of temples and statuary by the Taliban and ISIS. Some apologists for religion like to claim that the evil motives of these groups have more to do with social inequities, power grabbing, or just plain greed. Please explain how the destruction of ancient relics has anything to do with anything else other than the religious driven hatred spurned on by Holy Texts.
SomethingNew
(279 posts)One would think you would be happy with the outcome...
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)I resent that assumption. Art is Art, regardless of its inspiration.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)"Apologists for religion" - by that I assume you mean anyone who takes the First Amendment seriously.
Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)I was speaking specifically to those apologists that make the claim that religion has nothing to do with the Taliban or ISIS and instead attribute it to baser motives. I guess you haven't seen these posts.
Hiding behind the first amendment is what haters do.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)Tone it down
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)people exercising their First Amendment religious freedoms. If you don't like it, maybe Saudi Arabia is more to your liking.
Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)So I can't use my first amendment freedomss but you can? As I said before, this post is a direct response to the select few religious apologists on DU. No broad brush. No slander.
You seem to be the one against criticism of religion. What country supports your view?
rug
(82,333 posts)I fail to see any religious motive in its actions. Quite the opposite.
Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)That is why I started a new thread. I agree, that issue has little or nothing to do with religion.
jonno99
(2,620 posts)Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)Who said anything about Nazis?
jonno99
(2,620 posts)it could have been anyone, any group deciding to destroy art. My point was & remains to be that you don't have to be religious to be a dick.
Which begs the question - why are you trying to stir up trouble by creating such a broad-brush, offensive post? Are you feeling lonely and needing of some attention?
Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)And what's with this broad brush shit? I have said twice now that this is a response to previous posts by a handful of religious apologists here on DU.
And now you're calling me lonely. Boo Hoo.
jonno99
(2,620 posts)(oh and yes, I posted a link about destroyers of art - not religious - who happened to be nazis. I'm very sorry that you had to be exposed to that...)
Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)Define it and then show me how it applies to anything I said. I have repeatedly said I was only addressing a small number of religious types, not all, not many, not even you, unless you are in the group of apologists who claim that religion is not responsible for anything evil. Not all believers make that claim. Some are honest enough to admit the dark side of religion. I need a very narrow brush to paint them.
jonno99
(2,620 posts)that you are targeting a "group".
If I created a post titled "Undeniable evil of atheism", would you find that title acceptable if I was merely referring to a small group of individuals?
Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)The body of my post made that clear. I can't help your misunderstanding. That's something you have to work out.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)jonno99
(2,620 posts)to the statement: "In every discussion about religion, Atheists love to paint all religions & religious folk with the same broad brush."
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)themselves christians
jonno99
(2,620 posts)On this we can probably agree: there are many whose so-called "identity" doesn't jibe with their actions.
And sadly, I occasionally find myself amongst their number...
On the Road
(20,783 posts)They also destroy relics of Islam on the basis of the first and second commandments -- namely that religious relics become superstitious idols which mislead people.
Islam has destroyed more relics and sites from Islam than from any other religion. All the historical locations in Mecca associated with Mohammed are systematically being torn down.
I hate the jackasses who have done this and it is completely misguided. But it is not driven by hatred for other religions.
And if religions are all evil, why is it so bad to get rid of their relics?
Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)I am merely pointing out the evil that religion can foster. Some apologists claim that religion can do no evil. I just schooled them on that, so did you.
rug
(82,333 posts)There are certain aspects of religion that are evil. It is undeniable. Just read the texts.
rug
(82,333 posts)29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground without your Fathers will. 30 But even the hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Very stony ground.
But, as with Saul, even the denyingist of the deniers can be brought to the Lord.
And that nobody can deny.
Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)Slavery, homophobia, and misogyny are prevelant in the Bible. But go ahead and deny it if it makes you feel good.
rug
(82,333 posts)That constitutes neither knowledge nor an argument.
Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)I've posted direct quotes from the Bible supporting slavery, denouncing gays, and subjugating women. Every time I have done that you act as if they don't exist or try to explain them away in some ridiculous claim about "different times". In other words, you aknowledge it, but don't ask your own church to update their centuries old texts. We do that here in America and the rest of the civilized world by passing new laws and amendments. Why can't religion do the same.
From NeoGreen's latest post:
rug
(82,333 posts)Neither constitutes critical thinking.
Perhaps if you said something of substance in the first place you wouldn't have to repeat yourself.
Here's your homework:
Try some exegesis instead of used apologetics.
Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)That wasn't exegesis, that was the most convoluted example of apologia I've ever seen. And I find it disgusting that anyone would take it as scholarly and deny the obvious misogyny. Let me guess, that was written by a man. Of the cloth probably.
rug
(82,333 posts)When all he really wants to do is shoot spitballs.
Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)No surprise.
rug
(82,333 posts)Jack Chick perhaps?
Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)You do realize that that "cartoon" I posted was a picture of the actual text from the Bible and not some pathetic weaseling by a vatican flunky trying to make the misogyny of the church not what it seems. What's next? How about having David Duke perform an exegesis on Mein Kampf or the Protocols of the Elders of Zion? Anyone can be an apologist. No one can deny the actual printed hate that abounds in the Bible.
rug
(82,333 posts)A high form of cherry picking.
Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)You know damn well that there are hundreds of similar passages in the Bible that can be circled. Many of them have been quoted right here in this forum.
Google:
Bible misogyny
Bible slavery
Bible homosexual
Bible genocide
And then get back to me in three years after you've clicked on them all.
rug
(82,333 posts)Then you can get back to me.
Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)You may remain blind, but the rest of us can see.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)There has not been one argument against your position, only responses to straw men and personal attacks.
There are some people who refuse to admit that even at least sometimes, deeply held religious beliefs can be the motivation for evil acts. The desire to avoid that conclusion is so strong, it ironically results in them behaving in much the same manner as those who did the despicable acts. Attacking you, denying your humanity, painting you personally as the enemy. It's sad but does perfectly illustrate the problem: religious privilege.
Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)Instead of a reasoned argument, because let's face it, they have none, they resort to calling my post silly. Or they do the childish attack by saying, "I'm not allowed to call you stupid, so I won't."
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)who specializes in them.
What is undeniable is the intellectual and logical silliness of such a post.
Cartoonist
(7,326 posts)full of name calling but completely lacking in argument.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)That was self analysis, no?
Brettongarcia
(2,262 posts)Is there no bad thing or Evil at all, in any element of Islam or Christianity?
It seems to me that Cartoonist has a focused, simple, and extremely important question.
Will religious defenders here ever answer it?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)of faith, it lacks any nuance. It is an attack disguised as a question on a level with the "have you stopped beating your spouse" type of "question".
People commit acts of violence for reasons known to and claimed by themselves.
Religion can do no wrong just as any belief can do no wrong. People are needed to act.
I know that this is not the simple answer that you wish for, but life can be complicated.
Brettongarcia
(2,262 posts)2) In religion, there are many commands to slay those who oppose God or his people.
3) Many people hear these commands, and accept them. Committing violence they would not otherwise have committed, without the influence of religion.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Patriotism is also used to inspire people to murder other people. Do you thus condemn patriotism/nationalism?
Or do we agree that certain people commit violent acts, no matter the claimed inspiration?
Brettongarcia
(2,262 posts)It is therefore irresponsible to allow incendiary or hate speech.
For this reason, some speech is proscribed by law.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Brettongarcia
(2,262 posts)2) You are not answering my question. Can religion do no wrong.
Iggo
(47,597 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)The belief can be religious or not. The behavior remains the same.
One true belief attacking another group who thinks they have the one true belief, be it religious, political, racial, national, historical, etc.
anoNY42
(670 posts)then you are open to believing that other people have their own Sky Fairy. That being the case, the Taliban and ISIS are merely practicing a "pre-emptive strike" to defend themselves from other Sky Fairies...