I thought you said we had free will. Guess not.

A bit long, but worth it.

Even though it contradicts the lynchpin of your faith, specifically.

And it has.

Nor can I prove that DU exists for that matter.

But I'm pretty confident you're a part of some external reality. I'm not a masochist, after all.

All of this is in your imagination.

My imagination is usually much cooler than this.

But, to keep the others guessing, I will not reveal your next response.

And the author seems unaware of much of science fiction, and existentialist fiction. Much of which is explicitly atheistic.

I suppose this very, very obscure writer might claim that avowed atheists have suppressed deist tendencies. But that seems patronizing and presumptuous.

And if an atheist is religious? This means that religion is very different than what Christians think, or believe.

So that Christianity, at the least, is wrong.

A leading question with an obvious answer.

In the last century or two, many religious person,.ministers, have tried to compromise with the sentimental side of agnostics, atheists, by suggesting an in-common spirituality.

to an organized group?

Your main theme, in your whole time at Democratic Underground, has probably been to try to use the notion of a nearly universal, " faith"ful or "spirtual" side, even to atheists. You use this argument, to try to set up common ground, kinship, between atheism and religion.

Here you are arguing that spiritual qualities could exist in all of us; even atheists. And even totally outside any social group. Since, you hint, spirituality is universal, instinctual.

And at DU, one suspects that our overall political similarities are what attract us to this forum in the first place.

perhaps "quirk" is not quite the proper word.

Ignorance is found in all human beings. Is it therefore to be regarded as sacred?

Religion for that matter, has often been related to Ignorance; since people don't really know why everything happens, they make up gods, or fictional stories. As a kind of half- or quasi explanation. But most know these ideas are not supported by solid facts or evidence.

Personally I think it is deeply ingrained because we are social creatures. Because we must function in plural societies. Religion, for good or bad, helps provide the glue that bonds people together. This is an essential advantage for our survivial as a species.

I say this as an "atheist".

Those social organizations can obviously include clubs for atheists.

The federal government subsadises club houses for Christians, so why shouldn't it do the same for atheists?

Both are present where humans are present.

Why do you attempt to separate them? Religion is tribalism.

All bind people together.

Do you disagree?

So I still agree with what I essentially said.

"Tribalism" could describe many things -- Most, like religion, are not limited to that.

So tribalism is not always good.

There are many aspects of group behavior. Tribalism and religion are 2. Perhaps the 2 most significant.

No, I'm not confused.

Yes, I'm pretty convinced of that.

I have never believed in God, but for some reason I am a decent person and have “humanity”. Why am I not an evil narcissistic vindictive asshole only out for myself then (hmm, sounds like anyone we know? Hahaha)?
It must be evolutionary and genetic. The human species needs decent people to survive. After some investigation into my personal actions and beliefs, I now consider myself to be a Humanist (I had no idea that Humanism is an actual thing!).

I'll take a polygraph. I'm an atheist, and I exist. So says Rene Descartes!

Nor did the poster you are responding to suggest it would be proof. It can be evidence though.

And it did provoke some discussion.

IIRC by a floor covering.

And I like the last paragraph:

"In the meantime, it might be wise for religious folks to refrain from teasing atheist friends who accidentally say something about their souls. And it might be equally smart for the more militant of today’s atheists to stop teasing religious people at all.

We might all be a little more spiritual than we think."

It's metaphorical. I don't believe I have a soul in the religious sense. I also say "oh, fuck me" at times and I don't mean that, literally, either.

that whether or not there is actually a god, I am feel more fulfilled as a human being by feeding my spiritual side. T fact for me is that my faith (speaking for myself) has given me all those things that are the opposite of what people say is bad about religion. I tapped into more tolerance, more empathy, more charity and more serenity in my life through my faith.

I would never say those thing are not possible for others without a faith, but I would expect others to respect me regardless of my faith, just as I respect those who have no faith. (I use the word "faith" because I am one of the growing group of people who consider themselves "More spiritual than religious." )

I think religion gets unfairly pigeon-holed now days because of the fundamentalist practitioners. I have seen a lot of people made better through a faith in a Higher Power.

there will be nothing of me ever again to exist ever, I will rot like a fallen tree...is that considered to be spiritual also? If so I recon you can put me down as spiritual?

mate!

Nice find.

And there it was. Now, I realize that my lifelong dream of being a science writer can come true.

I've even been "blinded by science" by this cute young woman at my first college.

So, I meet all of the qualifications to have my "own column" on that website. I'm too busy right now, though, with a website content contract, to write about "science" right now. I have to write about cosmetic surgery procedures for a plastic surgeon's website.

Wait...that's science. I could write about that for the website. Wow! A new career opportunity.

Which would certainly qualify me for a post in the Trump Administration.

What did you think of the article?

Don't let that stop you. Just write this:

"Some scientists say..." and post whatever you wish.

Look at your excerpt: "This line of thought has led to some scientists claiming..."

It's easy.

And we all post what we wish here.

is what is often in articles. It's a tell, you see. But, I'll leave you to guess what those phrases are telling...

Or both.

But hey, this is far from the worst goofy site you've linked to just because you found something you desperately wanted to believe.

Carry on, g-man. I'll just be over here laughing at you.

One disqualifier is that I have no ties to big business.

Does the near-universality of religious belief necessarily mean that whatever is believed in, is true?

Yes or no.

as long as they're human-generated.

I believe that we both know that.

PS.

That stands as a yes answer.

At one time, a vast majority of people believed that the earth was flat.

That didn't make it true.

Enjoy your victory or whatever you feel that you have achieved.

I can't help it if you aren't growing beyond them. You're going to get similar responses from me until you do.

It does save time and all. Do you have them as macros?

I wouldn't really need anything more than macros to dismiss everything you say.

Advance your thinking, make a real argument, and I'll give you some amazing new responses.

Try it. Can you?

"Say something that I agree with and I will agree with you".

With all of the silly claims that theism is a mental illness, that humans are evolving away from theism, and various other hopes masquerading as claims, I will continue to point out the thought that religion and human existence have been inseparable for 300,000 years or so.

You can point out whatever you'd like if it makes you feel better. I know it upsets you to read bad things about religion, and that the number of non-believers has been increasing for a while now, with no signs yet of slowing down.

Those are upsetting facts for someone who has anchored his entire worldview on religious belief. I understand why you are upset.

But using argumentum ad populum as your standard go-to response really doesn't negate any of the facts. I'm sorry.

It is highly likely humanity will never be free of religious belief. It is true that we are hard-wired for many things that religious belief satisfies: A talent at pattern recognition. A desire to ascribe agency and purpose. A need for social structure and rules that govern group behavior. We have a strong tendency for all of those things.

But none of that makes your religion or your god real, guillaumeb. I've very sorry. Feel free to insult or attack me if it helps.

but quickly returned to your well worn cliché about the decrease in believers, and the weak attempt at analyzing my motives.

If we are hard wired for religion, what I feel is an obvious but ultimately unprovable statement, then religion will always be with us. And as the article states, even some atheists often admit to a belief in the soul and other unprovable concepts. So it seems to me that anyone who promotes the meme that theism is dying cannot see how contradictory that is in the face of all of the hundreds of thousands of years of human history.

And that's what bothers you. Clearly.

An interesting revelation of your own feelings.

You got me. I'm so worried about, uh, what am I worried about again?

I understand that you cannot accept the idea of a faith based argument, but if you cannot accept it, do not accept the idea.

If it could well be false, then it is not wise to put much confidence in it.

Unless you are confused about the nature and scope of religion versus science.

Then those who offer firm statements about God, or in support of one religion or another, are misinformed about the nature of religion.

So it would be impossible for such a person with such a faith, to ever really argue about religion. He or she having no fixed positions to bother defending.

Which I take is roughly your own position, and the position of very liberal Christians, generally.

feel free to preach, or enlighten, or start a dialogue.

Therefore your typical, liberal Christianity often, typically, claims to avoid dogmas, preaching. And to avoid ever telling others whether their religion is right or wrong.

Still, you do often seen to hint to atheists that they at least, are wrong That although we can't say much that is definite about religion, or God, we can at least be that there is one. Of some undetermined type.

Most recently you are presenting a typical minister's theory; that there is a universal spirituality. And that even Atheists have it.

In this way, you or thousands of ministers like you, may at times hint that even atheists are partly faithful, or even religious.

However? Many atheists would probably counter that overall, whatever inner feelings they may have, are so different, that they should not be called "religious " Even the vague, seemingly general word "spiritual," might also still be inaccurate.

So finally there is less overlap between atheists and religionists, than Guil would like to assert.

or call it metaphysical wondering if the word spiritual has negative connotations to you, but call it spirituality, or metaphysics, or philosophical dialogue, it seems undeniable that humans almost universally engage in such thought. Burial practices that date back 300,000 years seem to suggest a concern for the dead and a concern for an afterlife. Can we state that definitively? No, we cannot, but as far back as we have records humans have been wondering about origins and that wonder generally involves a deity or deities.

But it still doesn't make any of what's believed in *true*. Do you understand?

C'mon, g-man. You're almost there. I believe in you.

It's true that Harry Potter was a wizard... in a story.

Harry potter was as popular as Jesus with the younger set. Maybe more.

Expelliarmus!

The human mind is evolving into higher intelligence, thereby abandoning religion. No, I can't explain the Trump voter, but I bet religion plays a big part in their lives.

Absent any proof, I will classify it as a belief.

I haven't written a paper on it yet.

Those who claim that religion is a force for good can bite me!

I'll start with the jump to conclusions mat.

And we all form conclusions about matters.

But I find it interesting you ingnoed the content and focused on the obvious error, since manually corrected.

My own typing skills are weak.

Please focus on the subject....

It's autocorrecting god to good

What of Kali? Not all deities are benevolent or good. Some are to be feared and propitiated, lest they take offense and kill us.

Kali at least is predictible.

I mean, one day you're sitting in your hut, scratching your nether parts, and suddenly there's a global flood that carries you away, all over some constipated deity who is tired of pesky humans. I see what you're saying.

Buddah just says that life is suffering, Yahweh has taken great steps to ensure that it is.

It is up to us to discover a relationship with the Creator. Or not, as you wish. But in either case, if we would all do to others as we would have them do to us, all would be better.

Cuz then doing unto others as you'd have done unto you just pisses people off. And probably gets you arrested.

one should do to others what will make them happy.

Do I them.make everyone miserable or just do nothing?

I cannot imagine how anyone could wish to not be happy. Can you illustrate that for me?

Complains all the time, is upset all the time and refuses all attempts at offered help, advice or comfort. She also makes people around her unhappy. She admits she is unhappy. By any objective measure she is unhappy and wishes to remain so.

Some people may assume that this behavior somehow makes her happy, but that would be just an unfalsifyable assumption.

He suffered from degenerative discs in the lower spine. Perhaps she has a physical issue that she will not discuss.