tourists from the Gulf states in their burkinis all on the same beach.

Considering a population with only 15% of fundamentalists, that's 15% of the population you can rely on for unwavering support if you throw red meat to them on a consistent basis. In a population that's already divided more or less evenly on ideology, that reliable 15% will decide many elections.

who insist that we all need to respect faith and not criticize religious ideas.

But yes, it stems from the deeply flawed idea that religion is beyond criticism, yet gets to freely promote itself. That's how privilege works.

with only about 30-35% of the population. I give you Donald Trump as an example.

The problem is the fanatical nature of "true believers." They will do anything to get what they want. Turkey has struggled with this for many decades. Ultra religious Muslims exert enormous pressure on government, much like our fundamentalist Christians do here.

Excellent news, as referenced here:

An actual case study, so to speak, of a very secular society.

But again, as your own article points out, it is good that theists are becoming more tolerant.

This thread is about Turkey, Islam, and secularism.

But religious people in China ARE more tolerant than theists in, say, Saudi Arabia.

Green New Deal.

Keep being you, g.

You freely decided to post there. And off topic as well.

Make up your mind, gil. Are you going to judge me and dispense retributive justice or not?

Matthew 5:38-40. Are you a Christian or not?

What I read, by contrast, and from the original excerpt, was this:

a theocratic political party AK Parti that has deliberately undone Turkish secular institutions and laws and now rules as essentially as a one party regime, right?

Meanwhile the true believers, threatened by declining levels of belief, by the modernity of cosmopolitan Turkey, have reacted quite predictably with a theocratic counter revolution. So as your article notes, in its first paragraph, politically Turkey is moving strongly in the opposite direction. As in Iran, the theocrats can successfully exploit the tension between a secular cosmopolitan population and a deeply religious rural population to consolidate its control. In fact a similar dynamic is in play in our own country.

And politically, the majority are Muslim.

And, your assertion is still contradicted by the actual article.

What does "belief perseverance" mean?

Into overt theocracy as its people become more secular.

Secular Turkey is on its way out. The religious have slowly, but steadily moved in to replace the political system with an Islamic one. When I was stationed there, Turkey was a secular nation, trying to maintain its separation from Islam. That worked for many years, but is rapidly failing now.

The population might be getting less religious, but the government is becoming more and more like an Islamic state.

It looks to me as though a secular government is a dying dream at this point for Turks. We should be paying attention, not because we care about Turkey. We don't. Because we need to prevent our own nation from being converted into a religious state. We're on that path right now, from what I can see.

More's the pity.

I am addressing the fact that Turks, including theists, are becoming more tolerant.

And you are addressing the situation with Erdogan.

But the topic was how the Turks are becoming more tolerant. Even the Muslim Turks. So the title is, at best, speculation.

Color me unsurprised...

While the Turkish people are becoming more secular, their government is becoming more stringently Islamic. It's a parallel to what has been happening here, too. Religion is not always a force for good.

And, with that, I bid farewell to this thread.

Pushing against what Attaturk started?

The survey clearly demonstrates that Turkish Muslims as a group are becoming more tolerant. Even among the more conservative factions.

And the survey clearly identifies even conservative Muslims as among those becoming more tolerant.

Polls only demonstrate what people think of themselves when asked.

Because I lived in Turkey for 15 months, 50 years ago, I have followed that country ever since. I suggest you go there and see it for youself. Stay long enough to make friends with some Turks. Learn the language well enough to have general conversations. Ask actual Turks what they think.

Don't just rely on what one person writes. That's my suggestion.

So your 50 year old experience, lasting 15 months, qualifies you to do what, exactly?


How many surveys have you conducted in Turkey in the last 50 years?

I just can't understand why no one wants to have a serious conversation with you.

I bet Jesus is so proud.

to be ironic.

But, considering your demonstrated literalist tendencies, perhaps not.

Don't you think Jesus is proud of you, too?

Matthew 5:38-40

We worked rotating shifts, with three days on and one off, ending the cycle with four days off. During those four day breaks, I traveled over much of Turkey. We had the use of a pickup truck and camper if you had a military driver's licence, which I did. Typically, another person would travel with me who was on the same shift schedule.

In addition to that kind of travel, I also hiked to remote villages in Turkey, often spending my entire four-day breaks doing so. Why? Because life in those villages, which had no roads leading to them was like stepping back into ancient history. I found the experience very educational. I was always received very, very well in them, and was a subject of much curiosity and interest. A couple of villages became regular places to visit, and I carried in scarce supplies and even first aid and other medical items on my visits.

I had a fairly good basic conversational knowledge of Turkish and talked to many, many people there, from local residents of the city near the base to people in those remote villages and other places I visited.

Yes, that was 50 years ago, but I maintained my interest in Turkey ever since. I have acquaintances who are Turks and communicate with them on Facebook and other internet venues.

Do I do scientific surveys? No, I don't. I engage in conversations with people. You don't know me. You know almost nothing about me.

Again: Have you ever visited Turkey? Were you ever in the military?

Except perhaps that the survey refutes what you wish to believe?

Understood.

Do you generally value limited anecdotal evidence over professional research?

As to your questions, they have no relevance to the topic. I am not disputing survey results based on 50 year old anecdotal expreiences.

Your personal knowledge of Turkey appears to be nil. Bye, now.

Interesting.