Religion
Related: About this forumI've not posted in this group before - but wanted to share a snippet of my journey....
I grew up in Rhode Island in a town where I was nearly the only non-catholic in my elementary school - so even early on, remember being told "you aren't catholic, so you are going to hell" (on Wednesday mornings, when the rest of the kids were on released time at church, I helped the teachers clean the art room and other things to keep me busy).
My family went to church so I was "raised" in the church - we were protestant (UCC) and the church was laid back. I liked the music most of all, tolerated Sunday school, eventually sang in the choir (the music!), ended up running the youth fellowship for a few years after a young, new minister persuaded me to. I've never read the bible except on Sundays as a hunt and peck activity and certain of the "greatest hits" passages. I bought the whole faith thing in that things like religion, based on faith, need no proof. When I got older and worked in a grocery store, Sunday mornings were softball time - so bye bye church.
Got married, my wife was catholic, me protestant, so we confounded both our families and became Episcopalian (they had the best music) and we went to church semi-regularly - esp. when our two girls were little (they only just tolerated Sunday School as well, just like me). Then we moved to NC, tested some churches - way too over the top holy roller for us - found Duke Chapel and a wonderful very liberal preacher that was there a few years ago - Will Willimon - we went mostly for his very left wing based sermons (and the music).
We've stopped attending church over the last - say, 10 years or so. My wife and I have seen far too much harm done in the name of religion - way too much hypocrisy. So you would probably now describe us as spiritual - though I am a PhD scientist, I still have a feeling that there is much we don't know or understand - God? Perhaps - so we believe in some greater power or designer, but not like it is described in the bible - or any book. But some days - I don't know. I do accept evolution and the scientific method and science, in general (if it is objective and not polluted by funds to drive a particular outcome).
But it is interesting to be 56 and still on a spiritual journey - to be not sure. And I actually delight in the journey and the not being certain. I love surprises - and unexpected outcomes.
I guess what prompted me to post this is cbayer's post about the 33 year old anniversary of the hard core religious right. Because I remember hard core religious right stuff going on long before that - watching the Billy Graham crusades with my family, and wondering why he was always asking people to give money at the end of the show. I think that religion has been "putting people on" for a long time - often a weapon wielded by those who couldn't possibly believe what they preach - for their own devices, power and greed.
So....I just don't know!
And that's what I felt like sharing here today.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I knew some of this about you, but not the full picture.
Your essay is a testament to how personal and individual all of this is. One of the up sides of participating in this group is the chance to hear stories like your own. Another is the opportunity to think about our own stories, where we are and how we got here.
I know that the hard core religious right has been around for more than 33 years, but their political power really does seem to have begun around them. Fortunately, I think they are losing their power and, to some degree, losing it because of people like you and your wife.
While I've got you, I just have to brag that my tomatoes are doing great (despite having been repeatedly blown over by the wind).
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Might I suggest that if you are NOT still on a spiritual journey, you just might be on a wrong path?
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I just had a conversation last night about leaving all the doors open and ways of opening those that seem closed.
Once I am sure I know the answer, I am sure that my demise will be imminent.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Two additional thoughts ...
First, when we "KNOW" we cease to grow.
Secondly, in the words of Lynyrd Skynyrd:
And you know sometimes words have two meanings
In the tree by the brook there's a songbird who sings
Sometimes all of our thoughts are misgiven ...
Yes there are two paths you can go by
but in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on.
Keep Searching ... Keep Travelling ... Keep Growing!
edhopper
(33,669 posts)That's Zeppelin!!!
Free Bird my ass.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Thats my opinion
(2,001 posts)You won't hear from me for a month or so, since I'm leaving on an overseas trip tomorrow.
Your story is important. For a long time I have tried to make the point that the rationality of Will
Willimon is replicated in thousands of other places. Many here do not want to hear it because if they can be self-convinced that all Christianity is fundamentalistic they will not have to be open to anything else, or even want others to find meaning in liberal religious thought. If you go back a few days and review my last long posting and the responses, you will see what I mean. But keep your oar in the water. You voice is important.
turtlerescue1
(1,013 posts)It isn't spirituality that is the issue. Each of us are unique individuals, our discoveries, our thoughts, and our perceptions. It is Religion that is the flaw, anything that seeks to mandate, control and manipulate becomes repulsive. It is most irritating that though I read and study the same Book as the "hard core", their summary is always 180 Degrees from mine.
Maslows hierarchy about belonging, and I just plain don't fit.
Marty Luther knew about "hard core" in his time also. Only the faces have changed, the goals remain the same.. Hopefully we aren't as squashed today as he surely felt, still his writings are filled with humor. When all else fails, laugh.
I am a Christian, though spent decades trying to be anything but!. My greatest flaws are the most common: vanity and this idea I have some exclusive right to be independent. Which of course led to the hardest thing ever faced, humility, my ears just burned red hot. What was thought would leave me weak, instead did the opposite. Shocking!
What some don't see is that each form of self-righteousness, no matter what side has the same effect of "belittling" someone else based on one's person belief of what is correct. I am one who does rescue turtles, because perhaps the BEST I can do is care about "the least among us". Still I repeatedly wonder after I have thrown my car into Park, and am out the door to carry some turtle in the direction his head is facing, WHAT if some gust of wind turned him around?
Enjoy your journey. You will arrive exactly where you are supposed to. Ask the guy who fell overboard, and darned if he still didn't end up where he was meant to go.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I think your perspective also shows how individual and personal this all is. An attempt to label you would only detract from who you really are.
And keep rescuing those turtles! You are most certainly an angel in my mother's eyes, as she has some kind of spiritual attachment with turtles.
struggle4progress
(118,379 posts)De gustibus et cetera
NRaleighLiberal
(60,041 posts)earth shattering in their excitement!
We really enjoyed Willimon's sermons - always found something pertinent and current and useful to take away from them.
to each their own!
edhopper
(33,669 posts)One can be completely rational and a nonbeliever in any supernatural power and still be on what many would call a spiritual journey. There is enough majesty and awe in nature and our fellow man to enrich us.