2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIn 2008, Clinton didn't concede until four days after the last primary.
Her staying in that long was, at least arguably, dangerous for the Democratic Party. McCain was a serious candidate and might have won had the economy not tanked right before the general election.
This year we have Trump to face. He can't possibly beat Clinton or Sanders, and so Sanders' staying in won't change the outcome of the general. He should stay in for the sake of the revolution that, God willing and the creek don't rise, will eventually drag the Democratic Party to the left.
LiberalFighter
(51,401 posts)There is no comparison between 2008 and 2016.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)If so what fraction of a percentage is that?
thesquanderer
(12,002 posts)I think this pretty much applies to everything.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)She maximized that, too. A Cabinet of Enemies. She seemed to take that deal as carte blanche to do everything, even create her own secret intelligence service and private communications system to host it onto. Too bad her informants ripped off a lot of their intel from existing classified US Government systems. Her response, "Keep it coming. Too bad, as well, that violated her signed security oath. She defined The Outer Limits of acceptable behavior, and well past. Eventually, there is a wall that doesn't expand, even for her.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)May it all come back to bite her, Karma.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Makes what she did in office all the worse.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)It's the fact that she thought so little of Obama -- or thought herself so superior to him -- that she with impunity ran a rogue foreign policy out of his sight. And then she made this betrayal even deeper by using Sid Blumenthal as her closest advisor after he had been explicitly banned from advising her by Obama.
That is some serious, serious disrespect she paid to Obama.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Despite her campaign's effort to wrap her in Obama, I've always gotten the impression that he barely tolerates her.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)I wonder.
Putting myself in his shoes if he despises her as he has a right to, I would just let justice roll down. No pardon. Let her stew in the juice she brewed.
senz
(11,945 posts)But it is a given that Obama will campaign for whoever wins the Dem nom. He has no choice.
Yes, let justice roll down like a river, righteousness like a mighty stream!
Maybe we should send the Bible quote to Obama.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)I could send a paper letter to the WH.
Gomez163
(2,039 posts)Gomez163
(2,039 posts)Give a link to the lie
leveymg
(36,418 posts)What do you think the two talked about that evening in her living room in Georgetown after he slipped off the airplane? Or, do you really believe he chose her over everyone else who actually supported him who would have been a good fit for that job?
Gomez163
(2,039 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)StevieM
(10,500 posts)a criminal by asserting that he promised Hillary the S.O.S. job in exchange for her support.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Like the rest, tainted by the process they all have to operate in. No better or worse.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)support and assistance in the campaign. That would have been illegal if it had happened.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)in exchange for delegate votes? This sort of thing is as old as the two party system. Maybe you're right, it should be illegal. It's a polite fiction that there was no deal made.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)My lord, you think that nobody actually gets appointed to public office in America on the basis of a deal? That's like saying that campaign contributions don't buy access.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)by corruption not the "legitimate activities of government" as negotiation of appointments has been characterized. See,
320 LOYOLA OF LOS ANGELES LAW REVIEW [Vol. 42:293] pp 319-320. Google: .pdf Mr. Presidential Candidate: Whom Would You Nominate
In Hartlage, there was at least a plausible interest that the state
could articulate (avoiding vote-buying), even though it was
unpersuasive.85 It is difficult to see any legitimatemuch less
compellinginterest that the government would have in preventing
83. Hartlage, 456 U.S. at 58.
84. Id. at 5556; see also id. at 60
In barring certain public statements with respect to this issue, the State ban runs
directly contrary to the fundamental premises underlying the First Amendment as the
guardian of our democracy. That Amendment embodies our trust in the free exchange
of ideas as the means by which the people are to choose between good ideas and bad,
and between candidates for political office. The States fear that voters might make an
ill-advised choice does not provide the State with a compelling justification for limiting
speech.
Id.
85. Id. at 54.
320 LOYOLA OF LOS ANGELES LAW REVIEW [Vol. 42:293
corruption via prohibiting the naming of cabinet or Supreme Court
nominees. Put differently, it is hard to fathom what the states
interest would be. In Hartlage, there was a benefit to voters in the
form of reduced taxes,86 but here there is no benefit to voters other
than the likely nomination of appointees whom they would like to
see in positions of powerand there is no conceivable state interest
in preventing that from happening.
artislife
(9,497 posts)hey I love Obama and will miss him. I hated that he gave her the SoS job, but I believe he did that so she wouldn't run against him in 2012
Stallion
(6,476 posts)see Bernie loses to Sanders again. Clinton had Millions more votes than Sanders both this year and in comparison to 2008. You lost-face it. I did in 2008 but still proudly cast votes for Obama in both 2008 and 2012. That's what Democrats do. That's why 98% of Democratic Officeholders support her and why 100% will in the General Election
grasswire
(50,130 posts)...Obama has not broken the law and was never under FBI investigation.
That's the difference between uniting behind Obama and uniting behind HRC.
jcgoldie
(11,664 posts)Obama was up less then 100 delegates and Clinton is up by 300+ ... pretty sure we won't have to get to fractions of a percentage.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)jcgoldie
(11,664 posts)And he should too I suppose.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Conceded, and that she got nothing in return for her conceding, how did she get her position as State Department head?
Vinca
(50,342 posts)Raise your hand if you donated to Obama in 2008.
moriah
(8,311 posts)LiberalFighter
(51,401 posts)went towards her debt you are wrong. It came from people after the 2008 campaign was over.
Ino
(3,366 posts)If you can stand it, she tells a very long story about it in this interview
From 2:00 to 5:00...
It kinda reminds me of Julius Caesar refusing the crown before accepting it. As Shakespeare pictured it...
She did paraphrase Julius Caesar with her "we came, we saw, he died" joke.
senz
(11,945 posts)someone who always pretends to have insider knowledge about everything. They said he asked Hill three times to please be his SOS.
After what she did in Libya, Syria, and Honduras, I could see him asking her three times to leave...
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Whether I can rec your post or not. <snort, giggle, smirk
The Shakespeare quote alone was amazing. And not from HRC but from you.
Thanks!
Vattel
(9,289 posts)kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)Demsrule86
(68,868 posts)Time for Bernie to get out after California.
moriah
(8,311 posts)LiberalFighter
(51,401 posts)What will he get out of it? Just got done watching a segment about party platforms. It is only eye candy that is ignored after the election is over. He won't have any leverage at the convention.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)northernsouthern
(1,511 posts)...pushing everyone else to get Bernie to drop out, dropping subtle hints, but whenever she is confronted with the things she said and did she quickly says she thinks he should stay in.
senz
(11,945 posts)She makes both statements, but the "should stay in" one is always said rather rotely, like a memorized phrase.
AgerolanAmerican
(1,000 posts)"McCain was a serious candidate"
McCain was slightly less serious than Vermin Supreme.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)In terms of who would might make a good president, Obama was the only serious candidate.
brewens
(13,682 posts)his cronies. That makes everything completely different. What hes doing is trying to make the country better for all of us.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)and by some measures the popular vote too.
this is not at all what is happening here.
also, i support bernie staying till the end and hope he concedes before the convention.
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)"irregularities" or ''''glitches" happen during
the next primaries. I doubt that there won't be any.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)The formal concession speech happened three days after that, but people knew she was exiting the race the day after the final votes were cast.
Also, 2008 set a new precedent....a new standard. There had never before been an understanding that the PD winner was the rightful winner. PDs were not considered the equivalent of electoral votes up until that point. So it is understandable that it took a little bit longer for Hillary to concede, given that in the past a race that close--where the leading candidate was hundreds of PDs short of what he needed to secure the nomination--had always gone to the convention.
But contrast, Sanders and Clinton both entered the 2016 race knowing full well that the PD winner would be considered the inevitable nominee.
All that said, I see no reason for Bernie should drop out. He should stay in through June 14 when Washington DC votes. But if he doesn't win then I hope he will endorse her after the final votes, rather than stay in through the convention.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)I guess I don't see much of a difference concerning the PDs. In 2008 I think it was clear well before the end of the primaries that the PD winner would be the winner.
joshcryer
(62,287 posts)If course if she had a couple of hundred extra supers she could have tried the more votes gambit, had them do.
Instead, she simply conceded.
It'll be unfortunate it Sanders contests the convention with Weavers guiding hand.
joshcryer
(62,287 posts)And livened the base. There's nothing wrong with finishing up the primaries.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)joshcryer
(62,287 posts)In 2008 there was a real concern Clinton would throw a wrench into things. Ironically, though people want Sanders to I think it's highly unlikely.