2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forum"In the realm of illogical, self-serving, hypocritical, intellectually dishonest political arguments
Sanders third argument, however, is the real doozy, because to buy it you basically have to ignore everything else he has said about the unfairness of the primary system. According to Sanders, superdelegates shouldnt actually be guided by the will of the people. They should be guided by who can win in November. Surprisingly enough, Sanders thinks that he would be that person.
Superdelegates should ask themselves, he said, do they want the second strongest candidate running against Trump, or the strongest candidate?
If your head is spinning, its with good reason.
The same candidate who has been railing against independent voters being disenfranchised, who has called the primary system undemocratic, and who has complained about superdelegates, in general, is now calling on those same superdelegates to vote against Clinton (that would apparently include delegates from the states Clinton has won), even though she will almost certainly have the most pledged delegates and the most votes. In head-to-head general election polls, Clinton trounces Trump, but since Sanders trounces him by a bit more, he argues that he should be the nominee.
In the realm of illogical, self-serving, hypocritical, intellectually dishonest political arguments, this is practically the gold standard. But with six weeks to go until the last primary, I have great confidence that the Sanders campaign will find some way to top it.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/05/02/bernie-sanders-declares-war-reality/68txAVboFpkpbLXarTH33O/story.html
Superdelegates are GREAT. And we have always been at war with Eastasia.
griffi94
(3,733 posts)The wheels are coming off of his campaign.
He's knows it's over. He should start an exit
strategy and work on staying relevant.
If the remainder of his campaign is just more ranting
he'll undo any progress he's made.
Human101948
(3,457 posts)Blah blah!
griffi94
(3,733 posts)Blah Blah by 300 DELEGATES Blah Blah Blah
and 3 MILIION VOTES Blah Blah Blah
Bernie's done Blah Blah Blah
Hillary's got this in the bag Blah Blah Blah
Bye Bye Bernie Blah Blah
Human101948
(3,457 posts)Be confident. Hold your head high. Act like a winner instead of a petulant child.
griffi94
(3,733 posts)is winning by 300 delegates and 3 million votes.
Bernie winning is now a statistical impossibility.
Hillary's got this in the bag.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)Nobody is forcing you to read opinions you disagree with but apparently you just can't help yourself.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)The rules state that the supers are not obligated to vote for H.
Now some of you want to make new rules that says they are.
The Boston Globe is a mouthpiece of the oligarchy. Fuck 'em.
jcgoldie
(11,664 posts)and hypocrisy... they chose the right words.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Projecting again.
jcgoldie
(11,664 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)From your posts here.
jcgoldie
(11,664 posts)Stick to the topic. Bernie is a hypocrite. Losing the respect of more voters every day. Some folks will go to great lengths to justify the intellectual dishonesty. Thats what this thread is about. That's what your presence here attests to
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)You don't know shit about me
Stick to the topic. Clinton is a hypocrite. Losing the respect of more voters every day. Some folks will go to great lengths to justify the intellectual dishonesty. That's what this thread is about. That's what your presence here attests to
LuvLoogie
(7,082 posts)tonyt53
(5,737 posts)They would have a field day with Bernie. As per a recent article in Mother Jones, the word "socialist" will kill him with most voters over the age of 50. In other words, the people that do actually show up to vote.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)firebrand80
(2,760 posts)Every week there seems to be a new story about what the end game is. As the arguments about how far the campaign will go get more and more ridiculous, it's becomes clear that his campaign simply refuses to admit that the race is over.
BootinUp
(47,231 posts)Bernie, just stop. You are killing your image and the goodwill you had built up dude.
psychmommy
(1,739 posts)criminal investigations? Perhaps that makes him a stronger candidate. I think it does. Perhaps he doesn't have the baggage that she is carrying. Maybe that makes him a stronger candidate. It seems very logical to me.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)It is not hypocritical to obey the rules even though you believe that they are arbitrary and unfair.
jcgoldie
(11,664 posts)It means arguing that the super-delegates should reconsider their choice in caucus states to reflect the will of the people and then have the audacity to say in the next breath that they should ignore the will of the people completely. I don't see how anyone in the Sanders campaign can even say this shit with a straight face. Bernie Sanders Mr. Authenticity is making an ass of himself as he winds this down.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)"Superdelegates can vote however they want"
It's incumbent on Sanders to make them want to vote against the candidate most likely to lose the general election.
What's hypocritical is to write the rules then complain that your opponent is following them.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)We're just pointing out that his argument is self-contradictory and absurd.
NanceGreggs
(27,821 posts)... saying that Bernie is doing anything "against the rules". What people are pointing out is that Bernie is a hypocrite - which is blatantly obvious.
The self-proclaimed "Man of the People" now wants super-delegates to totally ignore The People, and hand him the nomination he couldn't earn on his own merits.
A lot of you BSers aren't stupid. You KNOW that he's being a hypocrite; you KNOW that he is now saying the exact opposite of what he said only a few months ago. You're just desperate to spin this bullshit into "he's just following the rules" - and it stinks of desperation.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Superdelegates suck... but they're the gatekeepers in this fucked up system. If winning requires bribing them under the party rules, then bribes it is.
It's the only way to get into a position to fix the corrupt system.
NanceGreggs
(27,821 posts)... the hypocrisy and keep insisting that it's about "following rules".
Bernie railed against the very idea of SDs because they shouldn't have the power to overturn the will of the people - and NOW he wants them to overturn the will of the people.
If you can't see the hypocrisy there - well, what can I say?
And BTW, Bernie not "following any rules" here, as there is no "rule" that one is to try to flip super-delegates if one is losing. There's nothing preventing him from doing so - but saying he is doing so as some sort of obedience to "the rules" is just laughable.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)thank you in advance.
qdouble
(891 posts)There isn't anything more corrupt than choosing someone who is losing badly to win. You want him to fix a corrupt system, by doing something that it's unprecedentedly corrupt?
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Clearly it didn't matter then what the will of the actual voters was.
politicaljunkie41910
(3,335 posts)The Superdelegates were established to give the Party more control over choosing their candidates. It's not like they changed the rules after the Primary Season began. If Bernie didn't like them, he could have run as an Independent. He chose not to because he wanted to USE the recourses of the Democratic Party of which he (through personal choice) had never been a member. It would have cost him lots of money to get his name on 50 state ballots as an Independent and he didn't want to pay for that right. So don't come into our party and try to rewrite the rules 3/4's of the way through the process, because you don't like the outcome NOW.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)I honestly don't remember what he said. I'd like to see a quote.
I have always been against them and still am. I'd prefer they all abstain from voting at the convention and then axing them moving forward.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)I don't remember him railing against superdelegates months ago. Maybe he did. But I'm trying to gauge this "hypocrisy" claim.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)Why don't you look it up?
morningfog
(18,115 posts)And I looked.
It's easy to talk shit out of your ass. It's harder to back up bullshit claims.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)endorsed HIllary too early. Not that the supers should follow the people.
You may have a different memory, but I am trying to find where his current position is "the exact opposite" of his previous and haven't been able to.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Not that Sanders himself isn't a willing participant in the endeavor.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Bernie has a perfectly valid argument to make that SDs should vote the way their states voted, not just the way DWS/HRC want them to.
In what universe is that un-democratic?
Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)succeeded in tying Hillarians in knots over this which gives me great amusement and satisfaction. Keep it up Hillarians. The outcome may surprise you!
Bill USA
(6,436 posts).... insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate." post. YOu HORRIBLE PERSON YOU!!
Recommended..
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)To committed revolutionaries niceties like respecting the will of the voters are just more bourgeoisie claptrap. They know better.
NanceGreggs
(27,821 posts)bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)But Bernie still beats him. So this article is bullshit.