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angrychair

(8,759 posts)
Wed May 4, 2016, 05:24 PM May 2016

Let's be clear about some things

For all the monkeyshit that gets thrown at Sanders it is a sad way to pay him back for his decades of loyalty to liberal progressive causes and caucusing with the Democratic Party. As of this moment:

*Sanders has caucused and done fund-raising with Democrats in Congress for 25+ years and has one of the most liberal voting records in Congress.

*Sanders is the only Democratic or teapublican presidential candidate in the 2016 race that has had a 100% rating from PP and NARAL for 20 years straight.
(Source: vote smart.org)

*Sanders is the only Democratic or teapublican presidential candidate in the 2016 race that has at least a 95% lifetime rating from The League of Conservation Voters.
(Source: votesmart.org)

*Sanders is the co-founder and pass chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus?

When you belittle him, attempt to humiliate him, attack his ethics, attack him as a liberal progressive, remember that while he has made missteps and poor messaging on occasion, he has been a strong champion of Democratic Party and liberal progressive ideals for decades and no one running for president right now can claim that record like Sanders can.

If he wins or losses this election, Sanders has had our back for decades, he deserves, at the very least, respect for that.

69 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Let's be clear about some things (Original Post) angrychair May 2016 OP
Ive said before, i bet none of these people who furiously loathe the guy now were complaining Warren DeMontague May 2016 #1
Yeah it is becoming pretty clear why Warren didn't run. Ash_F May 2016 #18
Trump attacks Hillary, Sanders attacks Hillary, Trump consolidates his power base. Trust Buster May 2016 #2
The primary isn't over angrychair May 2016 #5
The same could be said when McCain used Hillary's attacks on Obama against him. Move along. TheBlackAdder May 2016 #6
Fine. Make the foolish mistake of taking Trump lightly. Trust Buster May 2016 #9
Look to your own candidate for the faults. peace13 May 2016 #28
That time has passed. We must deal with the reality that Democrats are looking at a fractured Trust Buster May 2016 #30
If he is acting Presidential it is for a legion of fools. peace13 May 2016 #32
I just think you underestimate Trump's shrewdness. Others before you have. Trust Buster May 2016 #33
Trump and Clinton are both shrewd and I don't discount them for a minute. peace13 May 2016 #35
The primaries ARE over. You don't realize that Sanders is not about Party. This is custom made Trust Buster May 2016 #38
Not according to Hill. peace13 May 2016 #40
She is pandering. Why ? Because the fracture I'm speaking of is very real. Trust Buster May 2016 #42
The fracture you speak of is the Third Way. Wilms May 2016 #46
I don't take Trump lightly. bvar22 May 2016 #63
You insisted on Hillary. Jester Messiah May 2016 #10
Trump has clear sky ahead now that he's won the nomination. I think the combined efforts Trust Buster May 2016 #14
Yeah. "Assassinating." Jester Messiah May 2016 #17
Use whatever definition you wish but Trump has clear skies ahead. Trust Buster May 2016 #19
That needn't have been the case. Jester Messiah May 2016 #27
I disagree with you but that's neither here nor there. We are at where we're at and Trump is Trust Buster May 2016 #29
Hope the dog doesn't get too sick, then. Jester Messiah May 2016 #31
All the other Hill fans say just the opposite farleftlib May 2016 #69
He is raising the issues we need to address and proposing solutions to those issues. Next question? Vincardog May 2016 #13
So is Trump. For the first time I think Trump can win. The Democrats are divided by hatred. Trust Buster May 2016 #15
HRC suppresses the Democratic and Independent votes while energizing the hard right GOP. Vincardog May 2016 #20
Define it as you wish. The Democrats are still divided by hatred. Trust Buster May 2016 #21
So quit hating Vincardog May 2016 #22
I think we've traveled too far over that bridge. Go ahead, underestimate Trump's shrewdness. Trust Buster May 2016 #26
Gramma said SwampG8r May 2016 #54
That is why ignore is my friend. After they expose themselves they make the list and my day gets Vincardog May 2016 #57
Are you serious, because trump is serious about nothing. babylonsister May 2016 #34
The guy is a competitive animal. Now that he's vanquished his opponents, Trust Buster May 2016 #36
To be blunt with you, your verbiage is basically Pro Trump, you are promoting him as a man of Bluenorthwest May 2016 #48
How ridiculous. I said none of that in my post. I said he's a competitive animal and he is. Trust Buster May 2016 #49
You said Trump was raising the issues we need to address and proposing solutions Qutzupalotl May 2016 #61
You mistake me for someone else. I never mentioned what issues Trump is raising. Trust Buster May 2016 #65
Post 15. nt Qutzupalotl May 2016 #66
I totally agree. But what they hear is "blah, blah, blah Sanders. Blah, blah, blah." GoneFishin May 2016 #3
Amen Armstead May 2016 #4
God damn right. It infuriates me to read attacks of Jane and Bernie. Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #7
sanders: I'm running as a democrat but all those rules and laws in effect do not apply to me msongs May 2016 #8
Hmmmm... peace13 May 2016 #37
Yet, he accuses Hillary of being unqualified to be president... NurseJackie May 2016 #11
Hillary demonstrates a lack of basic knoweldge about important issues: Bluenorthwest May 2016 #50
K&R jwirr May 2016 #12
K&R CharlotteVale May 2016 #16
That's is how I feel when the superior left attacks Obama fun n serious May 2016 #23
I'd be inclined to agree with you ... JoePhilly May 2016 #24
What I find so hypocritical is that you are all fine with this: Bluenorthwest May 2016 #52
She tried to say something nice about a dead person. JoePhilly May 2016 #53
"She tried to say something nice about a dead person." bvf May 2016 #68
K&R Playinghardball May 2016 #25
Yes, this X 1000! peace13 May 2016 #39
When you attack a bigger person, you just show how small you are. pdsimdars May 2016 #41
Isn't that the truth? nt silvershadow May 2016 #43
Agree 100% Rebkeh May 2016 #44
Thank you, angrychair. pacalo May 2016 #45
The outright lies and slander slewn at Bernie is unforgivable in my opinion. nt Live and Learn May 2016 #47
He has had a distinguished career in the senate. Nye Bevan May 2016 #51
Now maybe you understand why Bernie supporters were upset when Hillary surrogate... bvar22 May 2016 #64
Well said! nt One of the 99 May 2016 #55
Well said! Thanks for posting this. emulatorloo May 2016 #56
Hillary supporters and dc dems hate liberals and liberalism Doctor_J May 2016 #58
Let's be clear that both PP and Naral endorsed Progressive dog May 2016 #59
The whole reason I mentioned it angrychair May 2016 #60
Let's also be clear that many Democrats have those 100% Progressive dog May 2016 #62
And everyone seems to forget he was a national hit and DU hero when he filibustered that time. nt ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #67

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
1. Ive said before, i bet none of these people who furiously loathe the guy now were complaining
Wed May 4, 2016, 05:28 PM
May 2016

When we had a tie in the senate and he caucused with us as the tiebreaker.

Although that was around the same time as certain sensible senate voices were proposing laws to put flag burners in prison for a year, so maybe it has gone down the memory hole.

No, they simply HATE, HATE, CANNOT STAND the guy for having the nerve -the nerve!- to run at all when it was HER TURN. Listen to them talk about the dude, after this is all over they're gonna follow him back to Vermont and -rhetorically speaking, of course- MAKE. HIM. PAYYYYYYYY

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
2. Trump attacks Hillary, Sanders attacks Hillary, Trump consolidates his power base.
Wed May 4, 2016, 05:32 PM
May 2016

What is Sanders doing for us lately other than making a Trump presidency more likely ?

angrychair

(8,759 posts)
5. The primary isn't over
Wed May 4, 2016, 05:40 PM
May 2016

Clinton herself stated the other day:

"She added that she would not refer to herself as the presumptive nominee and that she respects Sanders's choice to stay in the race."

HRC did not drop out until after the last state voted in 2008.

 

peace13

(11,076 posts)
28. Look to your own candidate for the faults.
Wed May 4, 2016, 06:09 PM
May 2016

My god she comes with a bus full. Blindly supporting her will lead us all into trouble.

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
30. That time has passed. We must deal with the reality that Democrats are looking at a fractured
Wed May 4, 2016, 06:17 PM
May 2016

party while Trump is free to start acting very presidential and builds momentum.

 

peace13

(11,076 posts)
32. If he is acting Presidential it is for a legion of fools.
Wed May 4, 2016, 06:22 PM
May 2016

The primaries are not over. Let it play out. That is how Hill did it. Hell, she refused to concede, went missing and failed to show up to a press conference that she had called. Memories are short but that is exactly how it played out in 08. She tried to denude Obama of all integrity and did not care what kind of damage she left. Fact!

 

peace13

(11,076 posts)
35. Trump and Clinton are both shrewd and I don't discount them for a minute.
Wed May 4, 2016, 06:30 PM
May 2016

But I will repeat myself, the primaries are not over. There is another option but folks need to wake the hell up. Other than that option I assume life wants me to see some really awful crap and I will see it with the choices you propose and there isn't a thing I can do about it!

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
38. The primaries ARE over. You don't realize that Sanders is not about Party. This is custom made
Wed May 4, 2016, 06:34 PM
May 2016

for Trump.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
63. I don't take Trump lightly.
Thu May 5, 2016, 05:12 PM
May 2016

That is why I support the guy who beats Trump by much higher margins in the General Election.

Supporting Hillary at this point is like hitting on 19 in blackjack.
A much higher gamble.

 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
10. You insisted on Hillary.
Wed May 4, 2016, 05:45 PM
May 2016

That did more to make a Trump presidency more likely than the totality of Sanders' campaign.

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
14. Trump has clear sky ahead now that he's won the nomination. I think the combined efforts
Wed May 4, 2016, 05:50 PM
May 2016

of Trump and Sanders assassinating Hillary's character will definitely lift Trump in the polls.

 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
17. Yeah. "Assassinating."
Wed May 4, 2016, 05:54 PM
May 2016

Or just talking about her history, positions, and associations. Does that count?

 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
27. That needn't have been the case.
Wed May 4, 2016, 06:08 PM
May 2016

But literally the worst possible nominee is currently the frontrunner to face him. Why insist upon this madness?

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
29. I disagree with you but that's neither here nor there. We are at where we're at and Trump is
Wed May 4, 2016, 06:15 PM
May 2016

positioned very well to exploit it. The two Democratic camps are like two kids sitting at a table with chocolate frosting all over their faces fighting over the last piece of cake. The cake falls on the ground and the dog gets it.

 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
31. Hope the dog doesn't get too sick, then.
Wed May 4, 2016, 06:19 PM
May 2016

This outcome was known, though. Certain people insisted on Hillary despite being warned, so here we are.

 

farleftlib

(2,125 posts)
69. All the other Hill fans say just the opposite
Thu May 5, 2016, 09:55 PM
May 2016

With Hill as his opponent Trump'll never know what hit him, she'll bury him etc. etc.

oh, and Trump is about as shrewd as a turnip with that 5th grade vocabulary.

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
20. HRC suppresses the Democratic and Independent votes while energizing the hard right GOP.
Wed May 4, 2016, 05:57 PM
May 2016

Not a formula for success.

SwampG8r

(10,287 posts)
54. Gramma said
Thu May 5, 2016, 09:58 AM
May 2016

If you make a bad cake.dont cry when the dog is the only one eating it
The hillarians are finally noticing all the burnt bridges and in the image of their candidate wonder why no one cares they cant get back on the right side
Next they will demand we fix the bridges they burned much as they insisted obama pay for her shitty 08 campaigns debts

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
57. That is why ignore is my friend. After they expose themselves they make the list and my day gets
Thu May 5, 2016, 01:51 PM
May 2016

Brighter

babylonsister

(171,113 posts)
34. Are you serious, because trump is serious about nothing.
Wed May 4, 2016, 06:29 PM
May 2016

I can't explain his supporters other than they like the fact that he's a misogynistic bigot, but he is surely not raising important issues or solutions in any kind of cohesive fashion.

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
36. The guy is a competitive animal. Now that he's vanquished his opponents,
Wed May 4, 2016, 06:32 PM
May 2016

he'll start moderating his message while the Democrats keep savaging each other. His poll numbers will start to rise IMO. He'll seize the momentum IMO.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
48. To be blunt with you, your verbiage is basically Pro Trump, you are promoting him as a man of
Thu May 5, 2016, 09:13 AM
May 2016

ideas, proposing solutions, unopposed and worthy of our full fear and focus. I'm opposed to using kind verbiage about racist assholes like Trump. You are gilding his lily, speaking kindnesses and offering praise and demanding that his presence defines the process in OUR Party and that is a toxic and right wing concept.

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
49. How ridiculous. I said none of that in my post. I said he's a competitive animal and he is.
Thu May 5, 2016, 09:16 AM
May 2016

I said that the Democrats are savaging each other and they are. We represent the best thing that Trump has going for him right now.

Qutzupalotl

(14,348 posts)
61. You said Trump was raising the issues we need to address and proposing solutions
Thu May 5, 2016, 04:42 PM
May 2016

to those issues. I don't see him doing that at all.

Jackie Wilson Said

(4,176 posts)
7. God damn right. It infuriates me to read attacks of Jane and Bernie.
Wed May 4, 2016, 05:41 PM
May 2016

Guns, sure, me too, he is wrong on some of that or was.

But just about every other area and time of his life he has been a righteous fighter for average people.

I dont care if people criticize him for having too white of a campaign, he did and it was dumb and hurt him, but saying he doesnt care about average people is just absurd.

msongs

(67,509 posts)
8. sanders: I'm running as a democrat but all those rules and laws in effect do not apply to me
Wed May 4, 2016, 05:43 PM
May 2016

even though they have been in place for decades and I know what they are.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
11. Yet, he accuses Hillary of being unqualified to be president...
Wed May 4, 2016, 05:47 PM
May 2016

... and accuses her of the crime of "money laundering", and accusing his "own" party of being corrupt. He's well on his way to becoming as irrelevant and reviled as Ralph Nader. How can anyone respect that? He's his own worst enemy and he's intentionally damaging the party. Whatever good he may have done, the damage he does and his efforts to weaken the party will be his legacy. Was that a "misstep" or "poor messaging"?

Ooooo! So proud of that... it just gives ya goose-bumps!

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
50. Hillary demonstrates a lack of basic knoweldge about important issues:
Thu May 5, 2016, 09:20 AM
May 2016


It's hard to see such ignorance as a qualification. She says she 'misspoke' but let's be honest, she was just riffing randomly and said horrible insulting things while praising the Reagans who were the villains of the AIDS era.

I understand that her supporters also love Reagan but I don't. I also don't like historical revisionism nor AIDS denialism.

If Bernie Sanders had said that George W Bush was the Hero of Katrina and the savior of New Orleans you would have screamed bloody murder. Hillary's statement was worse because she was ignoring seven years of inaction and about 35,000 dead Americans when she made her fictional presentation on Reagan and AIDS.
Her supporters thought it was funny, just like Reagan's people laughed about AIDS back in those days. Same mindset.

Thankfully I was able to vote for Bernie Sanders in my Primary, returning our ballots today...it was a joy to finally be able to vote for a Democratic contender who has never trash talked my family in the name of some delusional faith. First time. I'm very grateful to Bernie for being that candidate.
 

fun n serious

(4,451 posts)
23. That's is how I feel when the superior left attacks Obama
Wed May 4, 2016, 06:02 PM
May 2016

for not being good enough. After everything he has done and is doing!!

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
24. I'd be inclined to agree with you ...
Wed May 4, 2016, 06:06 PM
May 2016

... if not for the last month or so.

Early on, he set a great example. He focused on issues and his message. Some of his suppoters were unhinged, but Bernie was setting the right example.

But as we approached NY, he lost focus and went negative. And not just a little negative, "Bern the bridges" negative. His angriest supporters loved it. But by doing this, he's lost a lot of credibility.

So while I still respect Bernie for his past, his present isn't working out so well.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
52. What I find so hypocritical is that you are all fine with this:
Thu May 5, 2016, 09:27 AM
May 2016

"It may be hard for your viewers to remember how difficult it was for people to talk about HIV/AIDS back in the 1980s and because of both president and Mrs. Reagan — in particular Mrs. Reagan — we started a national conversation, when before nobody would talk about it, nobody wanted to do anything about it, and that too is something I really appreciate with her very effective low-key advocacy. It penetrated the public conscience and people began to say, hey, we have to do something about this too."

So credibility? And how negative is it to praise the very people who did such great harm to Americans while at the same time claiming the gay community refused to take action, only the Reagans were brave enough to do that. Bullshit lies, smears against good people who were courageous under great duress.

You are fine with that example Hillary set, revising history to favor Republican criminals and to throw shade on citizen activists and minority persons? Your entire cohort cheered for it, excused it, curated it and called it perfectly acceptable rhetoric.

It's not just her I no longer see as an honest ally. She took many others down that path with her and they all went willingly. I'll never forget that, and I will always act accordingly.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
53. She tried to say something nice about a dead person.
Thu May 5, 2016, 09:37 AM
May 2016

It happens.

btw ... Nancy Reagan was not an elected official. She did not set policy. Her husband did.

Outrages are everywhere if you look hard enough.

And DU has become an outstanding example of that since the day Obama took office.

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
68. "She tried to say something nice about a dead person."
Thu May 5, 2016, 09:49 PM
May 2016

An unbelievably blind, heartless, and hateful response. Beyond words.

Therefore her only option was to revise history, piss on a lot of unnecessary graves, and give her a supporters something more to grin and shrug about

...you might have added.

But, hey, "it happens."

Jesus Fucking What.

pacalo

(24,722 posts)
45. Thank you, angrychair.
Wed May 4, 2016, 08:58 PM
May 2016

I believe this is what bothers me most about the criticism from the other side. It's below the belt, ungracious, & ungrateful.

We were surely thankful to have his vote in the Senate when every Democratic vote was crucial.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
51. He has had a distinguished career in the senate.
Thu May 5, 2016, 09:20 AM
May 2016

It's his attempts to play games with unelected superdelegates to overturn the democratically expressed choice of the party that is starting to really rub people the wrong way.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
64. Now maybe you understand why Bernie supporters were upset when Hillary surrogate...
Thu May 5, 2016, 05:30 PM
May 2016

...Debbie Wasserman-Schultz was "playing games" with the early debate schedule.
Had the DNC not conceded the field and Free Network Face Time to Republicans for MONTHS in order to protect Hillary and hide Sanders from the American people, we would be looking at a very different picture today.

If Hillary loses the GE against Trump, DWS and her surrender of free TV and Media to the Republicans for 3 months will bear a great part of the responsibility.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
58. Hillary supporters and dc dems hate liberals and liberalism
Thu May 5, 2016, 02:47 PM
May 2016

This campaign has been a real wake up call.

Progressive dog

(6,934 posts)
59. Let's be clear that both PP and Naral endorsed
Thu May 5, 2016, 04:34 PM
May 2016

Hillary Clinton for President in 2016. The endorsement was the first time for PP.

angrychair

(8,759 posts)
60. The whole reason I mentioned it
Thu May 5, 2016, 04:41 PM
May 2016

Given his record on women's reproductive rights and healthcare issues, it seemed more politically motivated than realistic, since only one candidate running can claim 23 straight years of a 100% ratings from them. He has been a stalwart defender of women's reproductive rights and healthcare for his entire life and would never compromise abortion access for women as HRC is on the record as willing to do.

Progressive dog

(6,934 posts)
62. Let's also be clear that many Democrats have those 100%
Thu May 5, 2016, 05:06 PM
May 2016

ratings, but very few have been in Congress as long as Bernie has. I would defer to the judgement of the organizations that endorsed Hillary about who has best defended their values.

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