2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumMaybe a Clinton/Sanders Ticket Does Make Sense ...
I posted something along this same line yesterday. I'm pleased to see someone I consider to be one of the more politically astute bloggers thinking similarly ....
I had to actually feel what it was like as an actuality before I could begin to wrap my head around it. This has been a dizzying day.
For the first time, the idea of a Clinton-Sanders ticket made some sense to me.
It really didnt before, because well because of a lot of reasons.
But the spectacle of the Republican Party being divided this way has made me reconsider whether it might not be best for the nation if the Democrats can meet this national emergency with the unity and resolve it deserves.
If hed agree to serve as vice-president, it would immediately unite the Democratic Party and put its activist base into organizing mode. It would inoculate Clinton somewhat against the attacks Trump will bring on free trade and the Iraq War vote.
I can see how Sanders would bring some unnecessary difficulties in the campaign, but I dont see how a Democratic Party that is strongly united could fail to rampage on the Republicans up and down the ballot.
There are still arguments against this move, including that it will give a lot of Republicans a little more justification for sticking with Trump. It will freak the business community out at the exact moment that theyre realizing that they need to come to Clinton with hat in hand or get shellacked early in her administration.
I can probably find more reasons its not a great idea, perhaps related on a granular level to how it would impact a few select suburban House races. And, personally, Id rather see Sanders back in the Senate.
But, after really feeling the demise of the Conservative Movement, Im kind of convinced that the biggest possible hammer blow is Democratic unity on the biggest possible scale.
If Hillary goes with a Clinton-Sanders ticket, I think it will knock the fucking House down.
See?
Ive almost convinced myself.
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2016/5/5/01343/21963
LexVegas
(6,121 posts)salinsky
(1,065 posts)... quit nursing the butthurt.
Of course, he's qualified.
And, just think of the bone crusher a unity ticket would deliver to the Republican party.
It would be delectable.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)people dont know what that means- its an endorsement of bad policy from the past as well as in the future.
stonecutter357
(12,699 posts)timmymoff
(1,947 posts)she is under qualified to be president.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Both are corporate mascots.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)With the Colonel at the top...
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)Did you actually TYPE that?
Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Sanders doesn't help Hillary, or the party, in a couple of important ways:
1. He's too old. No, not too old to be president, but Hillary should raise some young talent up in the party, someone who can represent the future. She's got the experience, she doesn't need a Biden like Obama did. She could set us up for 16 more years of WH control if she chooses well.
2. VT is already going to go blue. It'd be good if her choice gave us a swing/contested state that we need to win.
3. We really don't want to take any Democratic senators out of Congress. I'd rather she didn't poach a governor either.
4. Sanders is unlikely to bring his supporters along. His supporters, as has been stated many times on DU, are not interested in the individual but rather the ideology. So if he "sells out", they will abandon him.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)... in any ordinary election cycle.
This ain't that.
Trump blows the playbook out of the water.
Clinton's main problem is with exciting young people.
Completely counterintuitively, Bernie can deliver them.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)Thats how the system is fixed.
It indeed is fixed and thats how.
Look to those years for the methodology of system fixation.
have I made my point?
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)He thwarted her will, and she is not happy about it. If she is President, he will feel the pain of her wrath, not a job offer.
She does not have a forgiving or even a compassionate soul. JMHO
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Given the current state of affairs, I feel she'd better change her ways. If she is capable of doing so.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Hillary.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)... no loss.
merrily
(45,251 posts)thesquanderer
(12,002 posts)I don't think that agreeing to be VP would be "selling out."
His personal platform could be to work with the president strongly in areas where they agree, while also continuing to try to pressure/persuade her in areas where they do not, where he feels there may be room for movement. He could also accept on the condition that certain key provisions were included in the party platform.
Of course there will be some compromise. Single payer is not going to happen in this scenario. But you know, single payer isn't happening if Bernie merely goes back to the Senate, either.
Meanwhile, with the lingering cloud of possible indictment (small as you may feel that may be), this could also be seen as Sanders' last remaining shot at the presidency.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)... and, they were all for it to a person.
I know that's anecdotal, but I do not believe that the Hillary Haters on display on DU are representative of the majority of Bernie supporters.
merrily
(45,251 posts)salinsky
(1,065 posts)Hassin Bin Sober
(26,370 posts)He would have to sit back and say nothing while the Goldman Sachs/Banking industry revolving door made its spins in and out of government.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)Your ignorance of just how totally different this man is from all the rest is suffocating.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Time for change
(13,718 posts)VP is traditionally not a very important job, but in some cases it has been. If it was made clear by the two of them that he would play a substantial role in policy, I would be more likely to voter for the ticket.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Bernie could do a hell of a lot more good in the senate. I'm not saying that because I don't want him as VP, I truly believe it. We need liberal senators.
Time for change
(13,718 posts)The downside is that he's just one of 100 Senators. IF he could have significant influence over Executive Branch policy, maybe he could do more good in that capacity. And it could be a path to the presidency (9 VPs in US history have become President without even having to run, and additional ones have become President after the President finished his term). And what if some escalating scandal escalates between July and November that puts Hillary completely out of the running? Bernie would be there to pick up the pieces. And surely it would be a much stronger ticket, more likely to beat Trump.
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)and put an actual Democrat in the Senate.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)dchill
(38,641 posts)Baobab
(4,667 posts)world class
dchill
(38,641 posts)Baobab
(4,667 posts)Last edited Thu May 5, 2016, 09:08 PM - Edit history (1)
or the opposite?
dchill
(38,641 posts)helping Hillary first.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)A spoonful of sugar doesn't make a plateful of shit palatable.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)rock
(13,218 posts)and relied on, and with a grasp on reality. All which Bernie lacks.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)Trusted? Kind of shot that one in the ass.
frylock
(34,825 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)SheilaT
(23,156 posts)voted for the Iraq war. Or installed an illegal server in her home so she could continue using technology she'd been explicitly told not to use.
I guess in this case "better judgement" means "She does whatever the fuck she wants to do, consequences be damned."
6chars
(3,967 posts)you are right, there are pros and cons. Hillary is a smart politician. I am sure she is giving the idea due consideration.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)grossproffit
(5,591 posts)salinsky
(1,065 posts)Demsrule86
(68,868 posts)Bernie has nothing to offer Hillary and after saying stuff that Trump is now using in his attacks on Hillary...no way. I dislike Bernie and do not believe he has integrity after the way he has behaved. so no.
Vinca
(50,342 posts)Hillary is still Goldman Sachs, Bernie is still anti-Wall Street. Hillary is still big insurance, Bernie is still single-payer. It's like oil and water. Doesn't mix.
uponit7771
(90,378 posts)salinsky
(1,065 posts)... I'm not sure that he brings the same punch in the neck as bringing Sanders onboard tho.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)That's quite enough of a punch. Sanders can't help us in VA, PA, OH, all the moderate states that we absolutely need in the GE. But Castro could make the biggest difference - if we win FL and hold onto the Obama coalition, Trump cannot mathematically win.
Of course, if we win TX it goes without saying we win the GE in a landslide and the Republican party is in its death throes. I would love it if that happened as a result of a POC coalition. GOP grief would be so delightful.
uponit7771
(90,378 posts)... Texas one only large cities in the US that vote GOP.
The city is bigger than Vegas population wise and it votes GOP!!!
Castro would be a definite plus if they want to choke the horrid culture of Chump out of the GOP
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)That would be the real purpose. I don't see him turning his agenda, and that of the people who support him into a Quixotic effort. Assuming she is the nominee and actually wins, people will fair better with him and EW in the senate holding her accountable. Sadly, many of us feel that it is necessary.
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)It must be the new marching orders from Camp Weathervane. Putting Bernie in a
useless ceremonial role would accomplish nothing and would give her the veneer of
liberalism of which she so desperately lacks. It would be a heads she wins, tails he
loses and they think we can't see that. Incredible.
BootinUp
(47,230 posts)There has to be a close knit partnership between the POTUS and VP both in the campaign and after. So to me, that would have to exist. I am not sure it could happen. I would not be in favor of a troubled partnership.
seekthetruth
(504 posts)......have a SEVERE come to Jesus moment and truly hold herself accountable to the progressive cause..on every issue.
Unfortunately, she's just not that trustworthy.
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)Jennylynn
(696 posts)Haven't you guys been listening to at least SOME of what he's been saying for the last year? (30 years?)
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)when you are defending it.
stonecutter357
(12,699 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)OTOH, I can imagine why Hillary would want to add someone who, at least, appears to be left of her and still by a Yesman/woman.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)being President...he would accept the VP in a heart beat. If not, he would turn it down.
MBS
(9,688 posts). . either as running mates on the campaign trail, or in the white house.
No way would this be a functional team.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)for lack of care.
And then there's his wife, Jane.
She screwed over, not one, but TWO colleges. One of which is now involved in two law suits directly caused by her malfeasance.
And then there's the fact she got on the Texas Board that dumped nuclear waste on a minority community. After Sanders voted to dump that waste there.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)SheenaR
(2,052 posts)Someone may believe you that he was the cause of that.
I posted two polls for you yesterday in which veterans support Sanders in large numbers over Clinton. But don't let anything like that get in the way of your continued smear campaign.
Look. I'm sorry O'Malley didn't work out and couldn't even beat this candidate you think is Worthless. But it's time to lose the bitterness
JPnoodleman
(454 posts)He is getting on in years.
still_one
(92,552 posts)age. He is 74 years old right now. Ideally you want a VP in there who is young enough to be groomed to run in the next election.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)But more to the point, she's not going to choose him because they are too totally opposed on many important issues, and he'd never go along with her immoral stands on so many things. He has integrity.
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)Hillary will fill her cabinet
with Wall St cronies.
Did you miss this whole
"wealth inequality" thingy going on?
mikehiggins
(5,614 posts)if HRC wants a good VP she should ask O'Malley, or maybe the Secretary of Labor. That Castro kid would be okay too.
Sanders is too old to waste the rest of his life going to foriegn funerals and presiding over the Senate. If he doesn't get the nomination, let him return to the Senate and continue his good work. Joining any potential HRC administration would neutralize and negate the work he's done so far.
Anyway, challenging the status quo doesn't usually mean joining it.
It'd be fine to help combat the threat Trump poses but joining in a HRC administration would be too much like showing approval and support.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)... reputation and legacy by being associated with the likes of a Clinton Administration.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)... oops, too late.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)That's the lamest fucking attempt at hiding the slime that IS the Clinton campaign by stupid I've ever seen.
Purity, my ass.
Simple straight-forward honesty. Something that doesn't exist in Clintonworld.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)but with all the controversy that's coming re: Clinton I would not think she would be suitable for VP.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)realmirage
(2,117 posts)BS himself is hinting he wants VP, and has said repeatedly he'll stump for her vs trump. But some people here are on their own planet and don't even listen to Bernie anymore. Welcome to the 5th dimension, space walkers