2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThere was no justification for any hardline tactics in support of HRC at the NV Dem convention.
Even if delegation control had flipped from HRC to Bernie, it wasn't going to make any significant difference in how the overall nominating contest played out.
And there was no reason for anyone to go in and flip the voter registration of those 64 Sanders delegates and use the involuntary flipping as a justification for de-credentialing them.
It simply wasn't worth whatever was gained, and it wasn't worth causing the ugliness and the bitter taste in the mouths of young progressive activists.
Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)Bernie lost Nevada, his supporters need to learn to cope with reality.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)when it was obvious that their side had won those votes. And there was no justification for any of the ways the convention chairman presided over things.
We're talking about a total of 35 delegates. There is no reason to be a hardass over a delegation that small. It's not worth it. And in doing it, you reinforced the "leave politics to the grown-ups" attitude young people think Clinton's campaign exemplifies.
Your side should have been better than that.
Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)A) Clinton won Nevada - do you agree?
B) The Sanders supporters who showed up weren't actually registered Democrats and were thus ineligible.
Case closed.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)They wouldn't have come to the state convention if they had re-registered as non-Democrats.
LiberalFighter
(51,403 posts)against Sanders too?
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Here is what us sanders supporters are watching and reading:
"Roberta Lange stole this," said someone named Matt in the comments section of this article, about Chairwoman of the Nevada State Democratic Party & member of the DNC Executive Committee Roberta Lange: "It was not democracy. We had a motion for Recount on the Floor, Roberta ignored it, and called a motion to adjurn the meeting and then Ran out, even though the Nays won it. She did that on purpose, she is a crook, and needs to be kicked out of her position as Nevada Democratic Chair Woman. I am officially registering as an Independent, I was considering voting Hillary if I had to over Trump, she just changed my mind. She just proved Democrats are Crooks.""
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)(The post is deleted, but I saw a screen shot which I can't currently find - the poster said he'd unregistered is a fit of disgust and didn't realise he then couldn't vote in the caucus - the replies make it clear)
I've certainly heard loads of people on DU say they're going to change their registration to be non-Democrats after their state's primary process. It doesn't seem out of the question. A surprising number of Bernie supporters seem new to the political process.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Unlike the Clinton followers, we will not heel or kneel. The Clinton followers have the Oligarchy on their side but we The People will prevail.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)We all saw the video. That was not a properly conducted floor vote.
Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)You can't.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)it...trust me, all rules were followed, I's dotted and T's crossed.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)While I don't support Bernie, I'm not here to mislead. Not everything in life is some grand conspiracy orchestrated by the DNC.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)At that point, by all accounts, there were clearly way more Sander's supporters in the room. No one is arguing against this, not even the speaker. She has not spoken to the press, and we all saw the video.
Even Clinton supporters who were there, such as the Congressman I linked to, understand this.
Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Way to think before banging your keyboard.
frylock
(34,825 posts)You people don't even bother to try and hide it anymore.
Txbluedog
(1,128 posts)I think the rules were followed and the Bernie delegates were not properly credentials but wanted a pass just because
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)"Clinton" and "pure as snow" ---- a juxtaposition rarely seen.
Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)motion and it went nowhere. Then they decided to throw a temper tantrum.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)It was cheating. It was fraud. And you're right, it will cost both Hillary and the Party more than could possibly have been gained.
Hillary is her own worst enemy, but some of her supporters are running a close second.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)dchill
(38,642 posts)To somebody. The cheating and strong arming started on Feb 20th and kept up through right now. A lot of it on video. They seem rather proud of themselves.
msongs
(67,509 posts)protestors
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)The convention chair is supposed to be totally neutral in a presidential nominating contest, anyway.
And some were not young, but they had every right to feel their side was being treated unjustly.
We're talking about a total of 35 delegates here. Why even do hardball over a delegation that small?
And why has it never been enough for you to just make a positive case for YOUR candidate? Why has your tactic, throughout this campaign, been to bait people and sneer at them? There is nothing the Sanders supporters here have ever done to you to deserve that from you.
You're hurting your candidate by being like that...you are making it harder to unify the party behind her if she DOES win. She won't be entitled to just demand unified support after her supporters have used these tactics. What you SHOULD be doing is trying a conciliatory approach and acknowledging, even if you don't support Bernie, the validity of the points his campaign and the Sanders movement have raised-rather than just getting all "you kids get off my lawn" about the whole thing.
pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)and your use of the word "sneering" is spot on. It's almost as if they want all Bernie supporters to become Bernie or busters. I don't get it. It's the weirdest campaign tactic I've ever seen. When I worked on Bill Clinton's '92 campaign I didn't see any of this crap.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)David Brock and Sid Blumenthal are known for their vicious, sneering style.
And Hillary is often dinged by that in herself, too. It's why a majority of people just don't like her.
They just can't seem to help themselves.
sandyshoes17
(657 posts)The posts I read here just push me further away. I'm a life long dem and never in my life would I believe that the party would go so far right that I wouldn't recognize it any more. I feel like I'm reading posts from republicans. It's really gotten bad. They very rarely use words like liberal and progressive.
pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)My first vote as a Democrat was in 1976. I've worked on a number of campaigns including Bill Clinton's campaign in '92. I went to his inaugural and one of the balls. I've traveled to swing states to work on getting out the vote. I also worked on the Kerry/Edwards website. I've never voted for a non-Democrat for president but even I'm wavering this year.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)It never was about a few delegates. It's about controlling the process.
The establishment doesn't want an expectation of democracy or fairness at the state conventions. They are making a point. Conventions are not going to be a place for debate, or a place for elected delegates to set the party rules and bylaws.
They do not want any grassroots movement getting a foothold in the party committees. It could threaten their control down the road.
They want it so the party bigwigs set the rules, and the delegates just rubber stamp it. They want a theater display of democracy, but not the real thing.
LiberalFighter
(51,403 posts)The State Party gets to make the rules because it is their event.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)The party didn't allow the traditional workings of the convention to operate, with floor motions and all that stuff.
Instead the executive committee made a rule that pretty much turned the party chair into a dictator. Maybe you call that following the rules. OK. And that's why people were mad.
That is what happened according to several credible eye witness accounts from experienced attendees. And it matches what we saw with our eyes on the videos.
https://www.facebook.com/AdryennAshley/videos/10153761545822695/
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)for the Convention.
They can break the rules over my dead body, if that is how it has to be!
Codeine
(25,586 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Last edited Mon May 16, 2016, 11:54 PM - Edit history (1)
1) they pick up even more delegates, AND
2) they get to excessively provoke Bernie supporters enough to create chaos.
3) They get to whine & play victims of "those mean Bernie supporters"
Quite a feat actually.
I agree there isn't any justification for this ethically or morally, but just sayin,
it's become a net "win" for HRC, rewarding them for going ugly.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Karmic Retribution occurred once before in my Lifetime,.
Remember Mandela's ascension into office? Mandela "logically speaking" should never have gotten that top spot in South Africa. But it happened.
And it is the turn of all of us who really want a return to True Democracy to create the Ripples that become the Wave that become a Bernie Presidency.The Collective Manifestation of every man woman and child whose lives have been ripped asunder by the neo cons, all of us will be pining for having what is needed to happen on such levels of intensity that it will happen.
It is already in place.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)truedelphi
(32,324 posts)And kuhl they are!
Response to Ken Burch (Original post)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)At this point, your candidate is going to be lucky if he gets a speaking slot at the convention or gets to keep his committee assignments. The Nevada state party has already decided to warn the national party that Sanders supporters have a penchant for violence, and all it's going to take is for one person "feeling the Bern" to do something in Philadelphia for Sanders to be unceremoniously kicked out.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Sanders supporters riot, threaten the lives of Democratic Party officials, and end up forcing the end of the convention and the closure of Democratic Party offices due to security concerns...
...and they're the victims.
Good fucking grief.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)The presiding officer at a state political convention has an obligation to be neutral and to be fair to both sides.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)And no, you're still not the victims. Once again, you're the instigators.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)And Hillary supporters pompously and ignorantly started the whole thing with their blatant cheating, which they have been caught at once again.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Dean scream!
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)Otherwise they should be considered slanderous lies.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)If they had, they would simply not have shown up.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)One admitted it. Not all 64 was about flip registeration, only a small number. 64 were denied and 8 able to prove data were allowed to sit. Others were suppose to provide data and didn't when they were contacted. 8 of Clinton's weren't allowed either.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)There have even been admissions by Sanders people that they dropped their Democratic status.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)The real question is, who where they and why were they there?
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)The Sanders campaign doesn't do dirty tricks. We've been above-board on everything throughout this campaign.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)What were they doing there? Those are the questions I'd like answered.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)They were legitimately elected delegates and they had registered as Democrats. Their registrations were changed in the state elections system database.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)There is nothing else there.
There was nothing illegitimate in their presence.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)And the whole thing happened when Hillarys people cheated. They cheated OPENLY so your denials are about as genuine as a laugh track on Gilligans island.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)have to find cover for their queen, to make her
little snow white, yet at the same time show
the power that the Dem. establishment holds.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)vowing never to support Hillary Clinton. All over a five delegate gain.
I hope it was worth it to her campaign.
kiva
(4,373 posts)Now I'm pretty sure it's red.
Jarqui
(10,131 posts)because it wasn't necessary either. Nixon was already headed to a landslide victory.
I'm not saying Hillary is as bad as Nixon but they do have a lot in common.
The term flip-flop was first used in Nixon's era for his flip-flop on wage and price controls (and on the Vietnam war, etc). I can't think of any politician who has done it as brazenly and as frequently as Hillary.
Both are well known for lying (Hillary's untrustworthy polls).
Nixon, it has been alleged with some evidence, undermined the Vietnam peace talks and kept the war going for several more years. Hillary voted for the Iraq war. It could be argued both supported war for their own personal political gain or reasons - until Hillary flip-flopped to be against the war for her own personal political gain or reasons.
Both were known for alleged dirty tricks in campaigns. "Tricky Dick" Nixon's dirty tricks ultimately cost him the presidency when he didn't need to do them. Nevada is at the end of a fairly long list of allegations of dirty tricks done by Hillary's campaign that started against Obama in 2008. And at this juncture, they're unnecessary if we're to believe her campaign's math argument (which is difficult to refute).
Does that mean I'm lobbying for Trump? No chance. Can't stand that racist meathead.
I protested Nixon and his flip-flop support for the Vietnam war. I couldn't stand his dishonesty, his flip-flopping, his dirty tricks or his war mongering. He was the first president I really disliked. Now, I'm being asked to hold my nose and support a liar, flip-flopper, and war supporter who reminds us of all that when her campaign pulls dirty tricks like this Nevada convention delegate sleaze - because she's a "democrat" (that I see as Republican lite).
And when I question this hypocrisy I'm being asked to commit or lay it bare to talk about, I'm in danger of being banned or getting my post hidden because I exercised first amendment rights on a democratic forum.
Cut some of us a little slack. From where I sit, things look pretty f**ked up and I'm having a struggle with it.
MFM008
(19,839 posts)as a DEMOCRAT , by the correct date, place and time then drawing a line in an arrow or marking a BOX
may be to high in the skills department for you.
ContinentalOp
(5,356 posts)You have just perfectly explained why the conspiracy theories are so ridiculous.
Hekate
(91,055 posts)Golly gee, when someone wants to join a club (or a political Party), they should at least acquaint themselves with the rules, such as how to sign up and how to sign up on time.
Not go in and throw chairs and bottles around like a damn preschool group tantrum.
2cannan
(344 posts)Sanders wins most delegates at Clark County convention
http://lasvegassun.com/news/2016/apr/02/sanders-wins-most-delegates-at-clark-county-conven/
The county convention was the second in a three-step process for Nevada to choose its delegates to send to the Democratic National Convention this summer. The first was the February caucuses, the results of which are used to apportion 23 of the delegates Nevada will send to the national convention. The second step, the county convention, is when delegates are selected to the state convention in May. The third step is the state convention, when 12 more delegates are apportioned based on attendees preferences.
hellofromreddit
(1,182 posts)An effective way to discredit any group is to bait them until they react and then play the victim card.
So, treat the Bernie delegates like garbage, trot Barbara Boxer out there to shush them like a bunch of little kids, and plaster the forums and airwaves with the worst reactions and present them as if they're unprovoked and typical.
There's no conspiracy. It's just assholes being assholes. They learned it in grade school.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)TheFarS1de
(1,017 posts)they will be buying internet trolls .... hang on There is no depth low enough for Brock .
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)I read that as lots of adjectives, but most of all WEAK and a tactic of LOSERS.
Cheating isn't winning.
senz
(11,945 posts)joshcryer
(62,287 posts)...campaigns I think their disqualification was completely on the up and up.
What Sanders failed to do was get all those delegate candidates to show up. Clinton had 93%, Sanders had 70 something %.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)From FB so sorry there is no youtube video link