2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWell over 200 more PLEDGED delegates and about 3 million more popular votes. Say hello to MATH.
Forget the ridiculous conspiracy theories, based completely in delusion, about "a rigged system" and "corruption" and all the rest of that complete and utter nonsense. It is sheer delusion, and nothing else.
Math is math is math. Hillary Clinton and the DNC did not collude to deliver her three million more popular votes. Hillary Clinton and the DNC did not collude to deliver her well over 200 more pledged delegates. (Forget the nonsense about super delegates. She is FAR ahead in pledged delegates.) Bernie himself has entirely acknowledged that it would be very difficult for him to catch her at this point.
Again, forget about the super delegates. Hillary is WAY ahead in fair, democratic pledged delegates and popular votes.
Hillary is all but certain to be the nominee because of MATH and REALITY. Sometimes math and reality are inconvenient, but hard facts are hard facts, and they are stubborn things. Emotional desires and delusional conspiracy theories will never override plain hard and indisputable facts.
There is one and only one goal here, and that is defeating the lunatic weirdo and racist con man who is Trump. If you are a progressive, strongly supporting the Democratic nominee is the only way to do that. That should matter more than any emotions over the likely outcome of this primary cycle. It is the ultimate no brainer.
apcalc
(4,465 posts)synergie
(1,901 posts)showing up and stuff! CT's are so much easier, and there are so many coming from helpful folks who cater to their Clinton hate! It's just mean exposing them to things that make them so very angry and irritated!
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Less than 300 delegates is not 'way ahead' or unbeatable and if your side doesn't play fair then you will never be perceived as having actually won.
There is more than one con man/woman in the mix. I will vote for neither of them.
Let it play out and then deal with the consequences.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)Enough of this hyper-defensiveness from the Bernie side. This strange mode of thinking that anyone who talks about the reality of the situation at this juncture is somehow trying to suppress your vote is just nonsense. I NEVER said such a thing. I simply stated the cold hard facts as they now stand and as they have been acknowledged by Sanders himself who has said that his chances of catching Hillary are very difficult.
Did I ever SAY you shouldn't vote? Did I ever say the rest of the primaries should not happen? NO!
And if you think Hillary Clinton is in ANY way comparable to Donald Trump, well, that is just completely ridiculous. She is progressive, sane, and EXTREMELY qualified, entirely unlike the looney tune Trump.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)vote in my opinion.
Hillary and Donald are not the least bit comparable in my opinion but they appear to be fast friends, don't they?
Sane? Hmnm, what was that being 'under sniper fire' actually about? Has a psychologist or Doctor actually ever weighed in on that?
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Can you show me where?
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)If he dropped out right now, there would still be a primary today, and the rest of the primaries would go as scheduled as well. You can still voice your opinion. And it would hold just as much weight, IMHO.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)regardless of their current campaign status.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)I agree with every word, except for any invisible ones. (Sorry, but I like to know what I'm agreeing with).
Gavile
(107 posts)That is the REAL math. Pledged delegates won't matter in November.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)so to speak.
Gavile
(107 posts)Only Bernie can defeat Trump in November.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Gavile
(107 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)That's why they're paying people to sow dissent among Democrats. Even a 30 post person should know that much.
Gavile
(107 posts)Despite claims of Bernie not being vetted, or not being able to cope with negative campaigning involving socialist smears, the fact is there's nothing with substance that the Republicans can attack Bernie on, whereas Hillary comes with a mountain of baggage. The other advantage of facing Hillary as far as the Republicans are concerned, is that even if Trump loses to Hillary, as least Hillary is relatively close to them politically.
That is why they'd prefer Hillary.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Bernie has NEVER been vetted and his flirting with real communism will KILL him in a general. They will play him as Santa Claus who wants to raise EVERYONE'S taxes. They are SALIVATING at the thought they could run against him because they know with Hillary they have someone who has a firm grasp on the issues and will decimate donnie in any debate. Just stop the bullshit already. You aren't fooling anyone.
Gavile
(107 posts)The Castro smears aren't going to work. Obama just recently VISITED Cuba himself and had a MEETING with Castro.
The only thing Bernie could be accused of is being ahead of his time, which is something he has been consistently throughout his life.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)You think Americans all of a sudden LOVE communism? Go away, sonny. You're too ignorant to have this conversation.
Gavile
(107 posts)It was a gradual shift over the decades. Most Americans today aren't still stuck in the 1950s.
Bernie is not a communist, by the way.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)by the gop - unless you actually think nuance is a strong character trait for Americans (I can't even roll my eyes far enough back into my head for that). There has been no gradual shift - this is a capitalist country and the vast majority want to keep it that way while making the system fairer using the tax code and corporate responsibility. Now just stop it already - it's embarrassing I even have to explain this to you.
Gavile
(107 posts)But nobody's buying it. Give the electorate just a little bit of credit.
Bernie only wants to make the system fairer as you described.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)unicorn fart bullshit. I give the country that accepted bush being installed in the white house NO credit. Then they voted for him 2004. Why the fuck would I give them ANY credit. They will tear Bernie limb from limb and we would lose every single state except VT - which is exactly what happened to the last Democrat that ran promising to raise everyone's taxes.
Gavile
(107 posts)Because of changing demographics. I've pointed out that GWB got elected twice myself.
The Hillary campaign needs to get their talking points straight.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Who called her inevitable? Certainly not her. I've wasted enough time with this stupidity. Talk to yourself.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)Your assertions have no basis in fact. It is just opinion. Bernie would be CRUSHED by endless anti socialist attack ads.
Gavile
(107 posts)In the 21st Century, not so much.
Response to Gavile (Reply #16)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
Gavile
(107 posts)If anything, Bernie was ahead of his time.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)We're been dealing with China and Vietnam for a long time now and it hasn't made this country any more sympathetic to communism (OR socialism). All going to Cuba did was prove we try not to be complete hypocrites.
Gavile
(107 posts)The point anyway, is that nobody can play the "China card" anymore when they're our biggest trading partners. Nobody can play the Cuba card anymore either. It doesn't matter whether they sympathize with communism or not.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)because it mostly is. That's the whole fucking point with Cuba - how could we maintain that a communist country is so anathema to Americans when China is one of our biggest trading partners (they are not our biggest - that is the European Union followed by Canada followed by China). I'm done with this idiotic conversation. Bernie is not going to be the nominee.
Gavile
(107 posts)And they behead homosexuals and adulterers there. If we can do it with them, we can do it with Cuba.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)Bernie being stronger against Trump. These snapshot polls are meaningless at THIS POINT IN TIME because Bernie has never been fully vetted nor exposed to the intense negative campaigning that he will endure. If he had round the clock ads about being a socialist, touting Castro, etc. etc. he would be decimated. Also, national polls have Hillary beating Trump by about fifteen points right now as well.
Gavile
(107 posts)Therefore there can't be any negative campaigning. That's why Hillary's supporters could never attack Bernie on the issues and had to spread lies instead. Nobody cares about socialism or Castro in 2016. Obama lifted the Cuban embargo after all.
You claim the polls show Hillary beating Trump - are these polls meaningless at this point in time or not?
AgerolanAmerican
(1,000 posts)If Clinton wins this nomination we are officially a banana republic.
It will NOT be viewed as legitimate, you can take that to any of the Wall Street banks funding this corporate takeover.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)Response to AgerolanAmerican (Reply #8)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Still in the anger stage I see. You remind me of all those "How did Nixon win?!!! I don't know anybody who voted for him".
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)If the one and only goal is to defeat Trump, then you go with the candidate that is the stronger match. The math, except to Clinton ostriches, says Bernie is the stronger candidate.
You choose this arrogant, vote suppressing, mass murderer enabling wafflehead as the standard bearer of democracy. Be my guest. Ethical intelligent people will have nothing to do with it.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)Any current polls showing Bernie doing better against Trump are meaningless at this point in time because Bernie has not been fully vetted nor endlessly attacked by the right wing tv ad machine.
Your other comments are sheer hyperbole, and you are self-engulfed in radical and delusional conspiracy theories and other nonsense void of reality.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)You elect Clinton, and the oligarchs will just feed you more dirt.
Response to Android3.14 (Reply #20)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)I appreciate the power of ridicule. In public school, bullies used ridicule and insult against my ethical viewpoint and forced me to eat dirt on several occasions just as you are trying to do. As an nine-year-old, I was under the spell of wealthy bully's social power.
The only tactic the morally corrupt have is bullying, and you ape your mean-spirited oligarch well. Unfortunately for you, your tactics have the exact opposite effect of what you intend.
Response to Android3.14 (Reply #27)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
SmittynMo
(3,544 posts)If you're acceptable with that, then there is nothing more to be said.
IE: Throughout history, oligarchies have often been tyrannical, relying on public obedience or oppression to exist.
TheSarcastinator
(854 posts)What fine Democrat you are!
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/videos/jimmy-carter-u-s-is-an-oligarchy-with-unlimited-political-bribery-20150731
Jimmy Carter: U.S. Is an 'Oligarchy With Unlimited Political Bribery'
The 39th president said the 'Citizens United' ruling 'violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system'
Response to TheSarcastinator (Reply #58)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
Logical
(22,457 posts)aikoaiko
(34,186 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)glowing
(12,233 posts)and 3 million votes. It's snarky and mean-spirited, not to mention annoying as all hell.
If you take a seat back and look at the general election race from the perspective of one of those elusive Independents who votes every 4yrs, maybe, during the Presidential election, you might begin to see how insane either party is in presenting either of these two candidates for Presidential selection is.
The Republicans, in their ever delusional, persistent insistent to seek "party purity", have chosen one of their own. A bombastic, asshole, proudly embracing bigotry and misogyny. And BTW, has the IRS investigating his taxes.
On the other side, the DNC chose Hillary well before anyone else thought about entering the race and has been stacking the deck in her favor of her selection. And in the General Elecrion platform, the republicans will care about her e-mails and her being under FBI investigation. They will "go there" in tying the Clinton Foundation and her work at State... Not to mention Benghazi all summer long.
What either party is presenting for the GE is rather frightening!