2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe facts, there was NO violence and NO chairs thrown
Last edited Tue May 17, 2016, 06:50 PM - Edit history (2)
This is a fact.
Now, subsequent there were threatening phone calls and so on, which are very bad, potentially violent.
I have been subsequently corrected, it is NOT a fact, as I dont have any proof that it happened still, but it is not a fact until I can absolutely prove it didnt happen.
BTW, I fully believe BoB types are capable of violence.
I just didnt see it.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)Jon Ralston had no reason to lie about that and he said that things were thrown.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)One JACKASS picks up a chair but then puts it down.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)The person who got hit and required medical attention? Which is on video.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)floriduck
(2,262 posts)Some hearsay doesno good for anyone. Furthermore, this whole Nevada issue could have been prevented had Roberta Lange done her job competently. Preventing the stand up vote, she incited the crowd. She might as well have yelled, "Fire". So I hope she loses her job to someone who is honest and trustworthy.
Blue Meany
(1,947 posts)more elderly people who were seated in the front, not from violence but some natural ailment.
hellofromreddit
(1,182 posts)KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)the perpetrators.
There was no violence.
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)It's a plot!
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)It's not like he plays games for anyone. He's quite fair. Get a grip.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)Whatever you say. Everyone hates Bernie and lies
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)He's jumped the shark on this issue - he's so opposed to Sanders he'll say anything. And has.
Responsible journalists don't tweet crap without proof.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Because on MSNBC they said that Ralston said he saw someone move a chair.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Video of the chair incident was posted here. A guy picked up a chair and stood with it over his head. Someone next to him calmly took the chair out of his hands and he got a hug. The whole thing was recorded. I don't know who Ralston is, but he didn't report it acurately.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)usually with good street cred. But, people do occasionally make mistakes. My experience is he is pretty straight.
.99center
(1,237 posts)"No reason to lie", isn't a valid defense of questionable sources of information. It's fact because of your belief that he wouldn't lie, despite having multiple videos that contradict his word? Hmm, maybe I'm going about this wrong. Chairs were not thrown This is a Fact, take my word, I have no reason to lie!
Stryguy
(209 posts)[img][/img]
Snarkoleptic
(6,002 posts)I'm astonished that the "thrown chair" is such a focus, in light of the mischief of the party chair.
Here's the video, chair up, chair down, hug. Pretty scary moment.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Bernie4People/status/732619789424832512/video/1
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)he lied about!
He lied enough that I no longer consider him a reliable source on anything and I'm a former reporter.
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)MSM has twisted this to their own purposes -- certainly not reporting.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)So does the Nation. So does Jon Ralston. So does WP.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)but I dont see it.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)There's video of someone picking up a chair, with intent to throw it (he wasn't stretching) until someone else stopped him. And there's plenty of video of what can only be described as an angry mob.
I don't know who all those different journals spoke to, but apparently it was enough for all of them to decide to publish it. And Jon Ralston, respected reporter, said he saw it. It's hard to dismiss all of that simply because you haven't seen a video of an actual airborne chair.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)reason
YouDig
(2,280 posts)his most ardent supporters.
The game of giving token non-factual concessions doesn't work. Hard core Bernie people believe that there's been election fraud in half the states that Bernie lost. Are we just going to say "fine, yeah, it's true, Hillary intentionally knocked people off voter registrations all over the country" in the hope that that will placate them?
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)think that crazy, narcissist sociopath is capable of this?
kcr
(15,331 posts)who had to be physically subdued. People claiming they saw chairs thrown. Those who claim that video evidence is needed under these circumstances seem to be the ones in denial. I don't know if chairs were thrown because I wasn't there, but it sure doesn't seem impossible to me, given the evidence that exists.
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)I watched it in real time. He had a seizure.
And Ralston did not say he saw an airborne chair. Did NOT.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)Multiple different journals reported it. I have no idea how that person got to need medical attention, but there is no doubt that there was violence.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)I would believe video.
With ALL the video that was taken that evening of the fuss, there WOULD be video of airborne chair if it happened.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)A liar is a liar.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)A liar is a liar.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)The rest of the world does though.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)ONE depicts any violence or chairs thrown.
It is blatant lies like these that make me doubt that threatening phone calls came from Bernie supporters.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)Roberta Lange just confirmed on Hardball that there were indeed thrown chairs, and death threats were made even at the convention.
Only the most hardened conspiracy theorists think this is some David Brock thing.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)Or wait, no you weren't. But you don't need to be in a newsroom to know what happened, because of the conspiracy.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)a brief, terrible moving image of the ship going down. Then there is the presence of the wreck at the bottom of the sea.
In this case, there is nothing but scuttlebutt from a campaign that has claimed 'that's not Bernie in those photos' and 'Ronald Reagan was the fist AIDS Activist' among other false claims. People with that sort of track record need to show me actual proof. I don't believe a word they say. Why would I?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)there would be.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)There weren't any video cameras on the Titanic, but in 2016 in any room with a couple of hundred people, plus the press, there are going to be dozens and dozens of video cameras.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)cellphone cameras rolling and yet
no images of violence, no victim(s), no one arrested or detained (?)
They don't want to talk about the rule change, the bogus voice vote or the stripping of 64 delegates to win by 32 so they focus on this chair fantasy.
Does anyone really believe that someone can can assault someone else (or even a chair) in a Caesar's casino, in view of hundreds of people, security, cameras and facial ID and just walk out? It defies belief.
hill2016
(1,772 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)A more distasteful unpleasant party hack, you never will see:
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)Txbluedog
(1,128 posts)And they are going to dent that this actually happened?
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)kiva
(4,373 posts)jalan48
(13,921 posts)Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)Were they not paying attention?
It's ridiculous on its face.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)I dont doubt some of that crowd is capable, but so far it is just allegations.
Show me a known, credible journalist who WAS THERE saying he or she SAW IT and I will retract.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I didn't need video to know Trayvon was hunted down in cold blood. I went with the evidence. There is enough evidence to throw your idea of facts into question. Shit. With Trayvon the only eye witness I needed was the guilty party himself.
I'm not saying these things did or did not happen. I'm simply saying you just put a whooping on the word fact.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)it but then nobody would know what we are talking about
I have no axe, I am a true liberal democrat who only cares about keeping the White House
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)There is currently large amounts of info coming fast. A lot is pure bunk. Some is not. Too many unverified stories on both sides.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)involved.
And the individuals responsible should ABSOLUTELY be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and in the process we can find out who they are...
and which campaign- if any- they are affiliated with.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Oregon?
Gee, I wonder who internal polling says is going to win there.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)You think the WH didn't verify that there was violence before he made a statement?
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)Here is what was said and not directly by my wonderful President
So he left open a threat, vs actual.
He is right again,
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Do you not think that's condemning the violence at the convention?
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)There appears to have been a clear threat of violence after the meeting with phone calls.
Although they could have been made by Karl Rove operatives trying to recreate Chicago 1968
Beware of that always
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)I am genuinely asking, no snark.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)The point I was trying to make, was more of trying to get people to calm the fuck down, relax, regroup, etc.
I appreciate people like you who are willing to talk reasonably.
I am a Bernie voter who will pivot on a dime the instant he loses if he does and I will then support Hillary big time.
My fear is many wont do that.
If Bernie wins I dont have the same fear from Hillary supporters.
Bernie can still win, by the way so he should be allowed to stay till the end.
What I dont want is a contested convention, which will almost certainly result in 1968 all over again.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)should he become the nominee. I don't like him, but literally any Democrat, or honestly the ficus plant in the corner of this room, is better than any Republican. We are in accord.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)The Hillary team plans on bringing the party together so as to rely on Bernie's voters.
And yet her people don't seem to have gotten the message. The DNC and DWS seem to be working directly against their candidate in this regard.
Wonder how Hillary got those high negative numbers?
As for the phone calls, no one knows who made the call and it is not fair to make assumptions.
And then there is Wendell Pierce - but no - keep walking - nothing here to see. Right.
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)Second video down on the site, action starts at approximately 4.40. As you will see, at NO TIME was a chair "thrown".
http://heavy.com/news/2016/05/nevada-democratic-convention-raw-video-videos-full-replay-sanders-delegates-election-fraud-jason-llanes-periscope-youtube/
Also, the video that Mother Jones used to illustrate a "fight broke out" at the convention shows no such thing, only someone lying on the ground near the stage barrier. No evidence of any physical altercation taking place.
There were cameras EVERYWHERE at this event -- I have yet to see ANY video of this alleged violence that took place.
As to the social media and personal messages that are being shown, I have no idea if those are INDEED Sanders supporters but, if they are, there is no place for that kind of behavior.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)nt
Eko
(7,424 posts)That being said there was some dude with a chair over his head, that looked a bit violent.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)He was not backing down from throwing it on his own.
lapfog_1
(29,244 posts)Because holding a chair in one's hands is the exact equivalent of throwing it at someone.
I'll remember that the next time someone in a restaurant moves a chair.
Hopefully it will be in a "stand your ground" state where I can defend myself from such acts of violence by pulling out my glock and shooting the person holding the chair.
Really, you need to sign up with the nearest police force given your uncanny and supernatural ability to perceive violent acts before they happen.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)in a room containing hundreds, possibly thousands of people, including the press, with I would guess about half possessing phones with video cameras is extraordinary. In this case, the absence of evidence is damned compelling.
Also, the obligation to provide evidence is upon the person/people making the claim.
All I have seen is video of someone who is on the floor and a call for medical assistance, and one guy picking up a chair, holding it over his head, then having the chair taken from him.
Where are the police reports? Where are the 911 calls?
Eko
(7,424 posts)Except for some dude holding a chair over his head and that did not look good.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)is criminal, to threaten people. This is not appropriate to deal with criminal matters outside the proper channels, to go to the press instead of the police, to seek to smear a group of persons rather than to seek to apprehend the criminals.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Following the lead of their candidate, the far right doubles and triples down on their lies at every step.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)They will do anything to keep from discussing issues.
choie
(4,112 posts)There's video all over the place - people with cell phones etc and there is NO video of chairs etc being thrown, but The press, Lange and the White House claim that there was violence even though police was there and didn't have to make a move. and who do DUets believe? The press, Lange and the White House and NOT the evidence...
And Lange comes out with recordings of threatening voicemail who she claims were from Bernie supporters without any evidence. If they are so concerned, the authorities should trace the calls and start arresting people.
[img][/img]
choie
(4,112 posts)that person lifting the chair didn't throw it - he put it down. Still no video evidence of chairs being thrown. Trying to "catapult the propaganda" huh?
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)And it does remain a fact that many of us are fed up with establishment bullshit and dirty tricks. But the only threat I'm willing to make personally is to take my vote elsewhere.
puffy socks
(1,473 posts)and having to have people talk you out of that isn't showing violence?
Really?
Go try that in a restaurant to go try that at the police station with an officer I bet you'd be arrested for assault.
Ah but I forgot... #freepassgorBerniessupporters