2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumLeonard Pitts: Bernie Sanders looking more like a sore loser
You cant always get what you want. The Rolling Stones
A few words in defense of pragmatism.
That ideal has taken quite a beating lately, mostly at the hands of Bernie Sanders and his supporters. The Vermont senator faces a virtually impossible deficit in his battle with Hillary Clinton for the Democratic presidential nomination. Pragmatism would seem to suggest its time for him to pack it in.
But pragmatism dont know Bernie. Or Bernie Nation.
If this werent clear before, it has been made abundantly so in the last two weeks, beginning with Sanders supporters in Las Vegas tearing open the Nevada Democratic convention in a protest so angrily chaotic it was shut down by security, fearing violence. But Sanders supporters werent done yet; they also sent death threats to party officials.
The proximate cause of this Trumpish behavior was a dispute over rules, a claim that, as Sanders campaign manager put it, the convention had been hijacked to award more delegates to Hillary Clinton. Politico rated that false.
In a Monday interview, Sanders told the Associated Press that this summers convention could be messy, though he later insisted that was not a tacit suggestion of violence.
Given the intensity of the emotions at play and the behavior of his supporters in Vegas, its hard to see how it could have been anything but. Which is disappointing. A few days ago, Sanders campaign seemed headed for an honorable legacy. But he has apparently decided instead upon a legacy of peevishness and sore losing, which is, as Frank Bruni noted a few weeks back in The New York Times, a hallmark of this political epoch."
http://savannahnow.com/opinion-columns/2016-05-25/leonard-pitts-bernie-sanders-looking-more-sore-loser
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)BootinUp
(47,221 posts)Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)way and when Bernie talked of a messy convention...we all got the veiled threat.
SharonAnn
(13,782 posts)Response to SharonAnn (Reply #4)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
OwlinAZ
(410 posts)Turn off the corprorate media blather. You will be happier and closer to the truth.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)You also don't own the concept of pragmatism. The Centrist Corporate Democrats did not invent it.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/10/31/socialist-even-conservative-could-love-burlington-mayor-sanders-was-able-out-republican-republicans/SCmh2TLifXxXRPFKC8NMjO/story.html
As Senator Bernie Sanders campaign for the presidency unfurls, there is a surprising truth to be found in his eight-year tenure as mayor of Vermonts largest city, or the Peoples Republic of Burlington as it was often called.
Sanders, the unyielding ideologue, who once read Fidel Castros biography during a crucial meeting in City Hall, turned out to be a pragmatic and efficient administrator, one so fiscally conservative that some Republicans say he managed to out-Republican the Republicans. He just did it his way.
Determined to find alternatives to the property tax, which he considered regressive, he had municipal attorneys pore over the city charter in search of novel revenue sources. When he found the citys insurance contracts had been repeatedly awarded to the same local companies, he applied a radical socialist concept, competitive bidding, as he later jokingly described it, and saved the city thousands of dollars.
Conservatives grumbled when Sanders put his sneaker-clad feet up on the table, but when his new treasurer discovered a $1.9 million surplus hidden in the budget, they grew quiet.
Walk around Burlington today and it is hard to miss Sanders legacy. The citys waterfront, slated for condominiums and commercial development when he took office, now boasts a community boathouse, a science center, and a public beach.
The citys lone downtown food store is a cooperative market that heeds 26 Supermarket Principles, one of them a commitment to serve low-income customers. Not far from it is the Champlain Housing Trust, a nonprofit that manages about 2,600 units of affordable housing, and is the largest such trust in the country.
Sanders had his share of critics, to be sure. Those to the right said he was too antagonistic and ridiculed his development of a municipal foreign policy, while those on the left said he was too compromising, a traitor to the socialist cause. But few disputed that his policies resulted in an efficient and responsive city government, one that, among other successes, kept the streets cleared of snow.
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)being able to govern in a practical way...
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Looks to me like he knows exactly how to govern in a practical way
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)I have no doubt he supported autos to some extent and voted in December to save them...but that vote lost...come January the auto money was in a bill which also gave money to banks...Bernie knew the money was there ...it was discussed before the vote...and despite the importance of saving our last great industry and unions too...he voted against the bill with the auto money...because of the bank money...How many jobs would we have lost. Bernie does not have the judgement to be president ...to make the hard choices.
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)still show an adherence to his ideology that is not possible as president. He found a way to make his vision a reality...easy to do in a small state but not possible with the GOP house.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)The scale may be different, but the same personal skills and characteristics and pragmatic approach are a template of how he could be expected to operate in the WH.
IF you bothered to read the article, it shows that he had the same "Crazy Bernie" tag attached to him, but he won widespread support for the results, and even grudging respect of Republicans and business leaders for his ability to "get the job done." He was continually reelected by wider margins -- which indicates a majority of the population liked what he accomplished.
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)And he could do nothing with the house...and Bernie is not that likeable...not even by the Democrats. The stuff you cite happened many years ago...but the Senate is a different ballgame and so it the House. Honestly, Bernie has lost ...so it really does not matter. I was just explaining why although I share much ideology with Bernie, I supported Hillary in the end.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)to only one flavor of Democrat or politician or citizen is hogwash.
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)later votes pragmatic. I think he has demonstrated an inability to govern in a pragmatic way.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)enid602
(8,678 posts)"But he has apparently decided instead upon a legacy of peevishness and sore losing, which is, as Frank Bruni noted a few weeks back in The New York Times, a hallmark of this political epoch." It is also a hallmark of Bernie's personality, style and of his tenure in politics.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)but in reality none of the millions who voted for (or wanted to but were purged before they could vote for) Bernie Sanders wants him to drop out. Sanders champions a collection of causes and goals that desperately need a voice in this election. He has focused on issues and goals while the MSM talks about Trump's tiny hands and the like.
Sanders has run the nicest possible campaign against Hillary. Said nothing about her emails or anything else even though the MSM asked him a hundred times. He continue even now.
I hope no one is under the illusion that Trump is going to play nice or that whining, complaining and deflecting is going to work in the GE. We need to win this thing. I hope Obama's team is available to help Hillary in the GE because they run a much better campaign than her current team has so far.
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)The Trump Bernie team did hurt Clinton ...at least it will only be Trump now.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)If we are going into the GE to beat Trump, we need to leave these fantasies behind. It makes a nice smear but as we move to a GE strategy we are going to have to think more straightforwardly. We will have to be more honest with ourselves about our strengths and weaknesses in that match up.
Donald Trump is a flamethrower -- this parade of strawmen that was unleashed on Sanders is not going to cut it against Trump; mostly because, unlike what the blackout and Swiftboating of Bernie that helped the strawmen succeed, the MSM will give Trump the airtime to respond.
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)In fact ,Weaver said that Trumps criticisms of Hillary were true...on television. Even now Bernie criticizes her all the time...when he has no path...and Trump says much the same thing.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)Sanders contrasted his style and his platform with hers. He mentioned repeatedly and pointedly that Hillary gets $225K per visit to Wall St. It is a matter of public record that she does and she can explain it or laugh or do whatever.
There is zero overlap between the kid gloves contrast highlighting that Sanders has done and Trump calling Bill Clinton the R word and tweeting that Hillary should be you know whated. Completely different. Zero in common. Reasonable people can easily see the difference.
Sanders should be thanked for running a positive campaign, getting people to register Democrat and for helping set Hillary up as a centrist.
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)and when you consider Bernie has no path he looks like a sore loser indeed.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)are you sure you're with her?
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-delegate-quit-222503
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)she seems to think he will come to his senses and help defeat Trump...yeah right.
Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #23)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
OwlinAZ
(410 posts)Wide eyed constant coverage of Trump and fawning on Hillary.
randr
(12,418 posts)it would have been that he has started a movement toward a better Democratic Party. One that holds itself to real principles unafraid of change. A party that welcomes all who hold our Democratic values of equality for all.
For the first time in my long life I am witnessing a candidate that is unabashedly liberal, willing to hold others accountable without self interest, playing outside of the "Washington box" that all persuasions of political thinking find repugnant.
We all should be cheering Bernie on and hoping that the fire he has started does not go out.
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)because he lost and the wind expended as he blamed everyone and everything...almost put the flame out...if we work together and elect Hillary (not Trump for God's sake) it will burn brightly again.
randr
(12,418 posts)we will all be glad that Bernie is still viable and kickin Trumps ass
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)He can not win a general. The GOP want him for a reason...but the email stuff is baloney so no worries.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)But her unsecured server leaking national security secrets like a sieve isn't.
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)going nowhere.
randr
(12,418 posts)Trump can never win.
We are witnessing a new political reality.
"Get out of the road if you can't lend a hand"--Bob said that
larkrake
(1,674 posts)Response to randr (Reply #13)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)just does nothing for your image.
Response to anotherproletariat (Reply #14)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
Gothmog
(145,965 posts)Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)didn't he play cornerback for the Steelers back in the 90's?
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)In a career spanning 40 years, Leonard Pitts, Jr. has been a columnist, a college professor, a radio producer and a lecturer. But if you ask him to define himself, he will invariably choose one word. He is a writer, period, author of one of the most popular newspaper columns in the country and of a series of critically-acclaimed books, including his latest, a novel called Freeman. And his lifelong devotion to the art and craft of words has yielded stellar results, chief among them the 2004 Pulitzer Prize for commentary.
But that is only the capstone of a career filled with prizes for literary excellence. In 1997, Pitts took first place for commentary in division four (newspapers with a circulation of over 300,000) in the American Association of Sunday and Feature Editors' Ninth Annual Writing Awards competition. He is a three-time recipient of the National Association of Black Journalists Award of Excellence, and was chosen NABJs 2008 Journalist of the Year. Pitts is a five-time recipient of the Atlantic City Press Clubs National Headliners Award and a seven-time recipient of the Society of Professional Journalists Green Eyeshade Award.
http://www.leonardpittsjr.com/Biography.html
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)This guy is a distinguished...writer and all around good guy...you guys are way out there these days.
Throd
(7,208 posts)Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)are stellar...but a lifelong Dem who is Black...not so much.
Throd
(7,208 posts)Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)but you go after a lifelong Dem...who is well thought of and has won awards.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I think he's marginal, at best, and certainly doesn't do his homework.
The people who are "out there" are those who think a private email account is the same as a private email server and don't understand the consequences of mishandling national defense data.
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)When I lived in occupied Georgia his column was a lifeline.
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)And the awards Leonard Pitts has won?
Number23
(24,544 posts)You might be waiting for an answer to this post for a loooooooooooooooong time.
OwlinAZ
(410 posts)Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)He should get out with some dignity and work for the general...but it is all about him...sore loserism.
Matt_in_STL
(1,446 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)in a protest so angrily chaotic it was shut down by security, fearing violence. But Sanders supporters werent done yet; they also sent death threats to party officials"
YET - the BSers thaink that's all okay, as long as they didn't see a chair thrown!
Response to Lil Missy (Reply #30)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)Sanders supporters were there to stir up trouble.
Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #49)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
OwlinAZ
(410 posts)Nedsdag
(2,437 posts)Especially when Hillary refuses to listen to the progressive wing of her party (don't give me that "oh, she was the 11th most liberal senator" crap) and will only give Sanders supporters morsals.
Be careful what you wish you wish for.
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)some of the Bernie peeps are nuts!
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)what he thinks.
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)And has been in politics for years... but I doubt you would give a damn.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)OwlinAZ
(410 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)Your post doesn't ring true.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)I never heard of him before, honest Injun.
hack89
(39,171 posts)his post 911 column, for example, was huge in America. Can't see how you missed that one.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)I have heard of him...he has a column that runs all over.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)I read the blogs and all that. I'm not a novice. He's just not that well known IMO.
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)Response to ThePhilosopher04 (Reply #32)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
larkrake
(1,674 posts)AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)Just heard Bernie give all sorts of fantasy answers about staying and flipping the supers...and he again said he won't help as Clinton helped Obama in 08...and Obama owes his re-election to the big dog...Bill Clinton who campaigned for him tirelessly in 12. So Bernie is a sore losers and is in it for Bernie from what I can tell.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)Pres Obama doesn't owe the Clintons a damn thing. In fact, it was Hillary's stint as Secretary of State that was Obama's biggest fuck-up. She pushed for blowing up Libya, calling it among her "greatest achievements." Libya - which Pres Obama calls his "biggest mistake."
Bernie would be a fool to drop out with indictment hanging over her head.
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)The president makes policy...SOS does what he says...and the Clinton's got him re-elected...I worked the campaign and saw the numbers...take it to the bank.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)Your version is typical Clinton delusional lore.
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)Bill Clinton saved Ohio for Obama.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)That's exactly what you did, you accused President Obama of committing a felony. The sort of Quid Pro Quo you laimed happened is a FEDERAL FELONY!
Now present the evidence of the felony you claim the president committed.
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)The Democratic president Bill Clinton helped get president Obama re-elected and that is a fact...you know some of us think Democrats are better than Republicans...and we actually work to help elect Democrats...I am sure that does not apply to you. Bill came and spoke in Youngstown Ohio when Obama could not because of Sandy in fact...and he was great. Biden was there too. I adore Biden. I had the pleasure of meeting him several times...Bill was all over the place ...he was the "explainer in chief"...and he helped tremendously. Have you ever even worked in a real campaign?
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)It was in response to the person saying that there was a quid pro quo for Hillary to endorse and she would get the SoS nomination.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Facts are such inconvenient things.
Bob-o the Clown
(35 posts)Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)an opinion
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)Time to end this primary...June 7th can't come fast enough for me.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)at the link provided right here on Dem underground...he is delusional. I almost felt sorry for him...to have come so close...done better than any expected but...he lost just the same.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
frylock
(34,825 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)blown up the debt ceiling without it...so your solution? I am all ears how you and Bernie could deal with the worst congress in history.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)That's cowardly thinking.
Sequestration handed the GOP a bunch of stuff they had sought for decades, for little to nothing in return. Same thing with the other 'pragmatic' deals Obama made with the GOP.
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)you can't blow up the debt ceiling...teabagger thinking on the left. The sequestration was supposed to be so awful that the GOP could not live with it. Obama underestimated their hate.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)That is cowardly thinking.
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)They actually believe many of them...that you could breach the debt ceiling and nothing bad would happen...it could happen...and it will be a fight every time the debt ceiling comes up...the more far right that are elected the greater the danger and Bernie could not handle that.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Harmful automatic budget cuts known as the sequester threaten hundreds of thousands of jobs, and cut vital services for children, seniors, people with mental illness and our men and women in uniform.
These cuts will make it harder to grow our economy and create jobs by affecting our ability to invest in important priorities like education, research and innovation, public safety, and military readiness.
Yet he signed onto it anyway.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)GRhodes
(162 posts)This person just threw together every tired talking point that has been debated here and elsewhere thousands of times. It is an article entirely for those people living in the Clinton bubble, the same people that pushed the most unpopular and untrusted Democratic nominee in party history on us all. Trump, the most unpopular nominee in polling history, was thrown up and the geniuses in the Democratic Party thought, hey, let's do the same.
I'd also like to know what makes supporting a candidate under FBI investigation, someone with historically bad net favorables, someone not trusted, and someone now polling even with Donald freaking Trump is "pragmatic". How is supporting someone as corrupt as her "pragmatic", or someone as hawkish, with her center-right economic record "pragmatic"? It isn't, and there is nothing un-pragmatic about Sanders either. He seeks more structural change (what a crazy idea, given how inequitable and corrupt the system is), and his changes would take longer and involve a tougher fight to implement as a result.
TonyPDX
(962 posts)Response to Demsrule86 (Original post)
wendylaroux This message was self-deleted by its author.
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)I see why you lose diverse areas.
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)has a long history of accomplishments...the real deal...what have you folks who are willing to throw the general for Bernie Sanders (sore loser) accomplished...always the same story...you accomplish little mostly nothing.
MFM008
(19,837 posts)sore loser.
jillan
(39,451 posts)Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)than a lifelong Democrat...but hey it doesn't take Leonard writing to notice that Bernie is a sore loser-bitter and angry.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)I want someone who will fight to the bitter end for me. As opposed to Kerry and Gore who just gave up and walked.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Clinton is, in other words, a good, pragmatic choice. And no, thats not an inspiring battle cry.
But a reality show buffoon unburdened by knowledge, decency or dignity is closing in on the White House. We should probably take a little inspiration from that.
Exactly, Mr. Pitts.
barrow-wight
(744 posts)How could he look anymore that way?
Wait don't answer that. I'm sure whatever it is, it's coming.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)"Yes, Clinton is, putting it mildly, a flawed candidate, stiff at the lectern, shameless in her pandering and disliked for reasons both substantive (she sometimes seems to have only a nodding relationship with truth) and not. (Since when is it a sin or a surprise for a politician to be ambitious?) But shes also intelligent and experienced. And compared to Trump, shes a plate of Lincoln with a side of FDR.
As such, she might make a good president, might be a middling president, might even be a bad president, but at a minimum, she would be a president unlikely to hand out nuclear weapons like party favors or require customs agents to ask would-be visitors, Are you now or have you ever been a Muslim?
Clinton is, in other words, a good, pragmatic choice. And no, thats not an inspiring battle cry."