That's what I don't get.

and those two things seem to be: 1. Attack the fascist. 2. Alienate voters on the left you'll need in the general election.

you've all alienated people in all of the mediums. Forums like this, in the print, online, radio and TV media, in person. Your emoji is a nice touch though, only moderately annoying and immature.

More than one of your allies has demanded that Bernie drop out so that we can focus on Trump. They've implied that, as long as Bernie is still in the race, the necessity of arguing against him (denouncing single-payer health care and the like) somehow makes it impossible for people to attack Trump, and therefore Bernie is helping Trump. I've asked how it supposedly makes the anti-Trump work impossible, but never gotten an answer.

Your post is completely correct. It explains why that particular talking point is bull.

And Pro-Bernie OPs no longer exist at all.

What's happening now is that anti-Hillary folks know they can't do squat to win the nomination. So they are stamping their feet.

And Hillary folks know that the anti-Hillary folks can't do squat to win the nomination. And we're enjoying watching them stamp their feet.

If Hillary is that unpopular on a Democratic Party aligned website, maybe she isn't what you'd call the optimal choice of candidate for the GE.

There are so many of those, there's no way we can keep up

that regardless of who we support anyone who posts here is NOT a Trump supporter.
Could be wrong......

The perpetually disgruntled have always had a strong showing here.

It used to be Obama who was blamed for all evil in the world.

Now it's Hillary.

just for you and a few Hillary supporters?

Soon to be establishment only!

and become Gentrified with the resultant change to conservative Trickle Down politics and More WAR.

NO. WE. CAN'T!
I got mine, and now we are pulling up the ladders.

I've notice how uncaring the vibe is today. Lots and lots of poor bashing etc. I miss the old DU. But it's gone for good I fear.

and will be until the heart stops ticking:

FDR Economic Bill of Rights

the new Republicans of tomorrrow, or something similar. Very visible here on DU

to avoid the propaganda in GD-P. People stick their heads out once and awhile, but then go back to a serene environment.

Sam

why don't they act like this primary is over and ignore GDP! I think I know why they don't, it's because this primary will be ongoing until the convention and they know it!

June 14...............

She's corrupt. Her policy positions tend to be bad and poorly thought out. She "triangulates" to the nearest Republican position. DU won't change a bit is she were the "official" nominee. She's too disliked by the knowledgeable base.

This is GDP, where threads about Republicans aren't allowed. Besides, folks posting in these threads aren't part of the Clinton campaign. They're just people leaving comments on a message board, and they represent a minuscule fraction of the electorate.

Clinton herself is pretty clearly focused on Trump.

..coming up behind her.

But many of us are not happy with the way we are treated so we are being very quiet until the primary is over.

It's quite obvious that most of the posts are from Sanders supporters, but that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of Clinton supporters lurking. If you think you're one of the few Sanders supporters who has "stuck around," you need to open your eyes. The Clinton bashing in GDP *far* outweighs the Sanders bashing. Any objective observer can see that. Not to mention all of the silly conspiracy theories and straw man arguments. Naturally, there will be pushback from Clinton supporters. That doesn't mean those same folks aren't attacking Trump or ready to get involved with the Clinton campaign once the general election begins. But posts about Republicans aren't allowed in GDP.

...that happen to be largely critical of actions that are being investigated for crimes.

A lot of conspiracy nonsense, denial of reality and straw man arguments. I listed some examples here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512067838.

I fully get that there's a valid leftist critique of Clinton and the Democratic Party as a whole, but much of what's posted here in GDP is pure and utter bull sh*t. It'd be laughable if not for the fact that it distracts from more important matters.

Anyone who with a clear mind reads the legitimate news reporting here can not honestly say that it is bullshit. Facts are facts. Court documents are court documents.

Clinton is not "my candidate." And I don't dispute that there's a valid leftist critique of Clinton, though I wouldn't include any of the supposed scandals in that critique (most of them are much ado about nothing that truly matters).

Much of what's been posted here in GDP (whether it's personal opinion or the opinion of others, such as Cenk from TYT) is utter nonsense. That doesn't mean *everything* that's been posted is nonsense.

Furthermore, because the US is extremely individualistic and oriented toward the Cult of Personality, far too many overestimate the power and influence of individual actors while underestimating systemic forces. Clinton and other mainstream Democrats are symptoms. They aren't the cause of what ails us.

....but you are sadly misinformed about what you call "supposed scandals." Try ignoring opinion pieces, and read the court documents and the IG report. Focus on the official record. I say this sincerely, because your opinion is worth informing, unlike that of some others here.

The email/server one might be the first to actually carry a bit of weight to it, but I can't muster up any real concern over it, and I certainly don't think it'll prevent her from becoming the next POTUS.

I'm more interested in the valid leftist critique of systemic realities. Scandals (real or imagined), straw man arguments, grand conspiracy theories and the denial of reality are a distraction.

Anyway, I provided plenty of evidence of nonsensical GDP posts (see link in previous post) and I can't take seriously any suggestion that all of the anti-Clinton posts are reality-based. They simply aren't, and any objective observer can see that.

To be for Hillary or Bernie and stoking many fires they have been here from the beginning. I believe that many thought it would be Hillary against one of the other 16 republiCon candidates never thought it would be Trump it is a mixed bag no one can tell who is who..

We have moved on.

For years people thought Sanders was a person of integrity. Sure, there were rumors about his inability to work with colleagues and his humorless manner, but I think people chalked it up to his being an iconoclast.

When he decided to run, we understood that he was joining the Democratic party because it was easy and convenient, and most of us gave him a pass despite the fact that he was exploiting resources that he had never lifted a finger to build.

Now that the public has gotten to know Sanders better, I think people are frankly appalled. He is entitled beyond words, dictating absurd terms, trying to oust officials and convention committee members, insisting that he be handed a nomination he didn't earn or win because he is, for some unfathomable reason, more worthy than the candidate the voters chose.

If Sanders wants people to stop talking about him in increasingly bewildered and negative ways, he needs to wrap this up. As it is, whatever reputation he had as a man of his word is essentially in tatters. Sanders has a lot of work to do if he wants to be remembered as anything other than an entitled spoiler who stood in the way of the candidate chosen by the people.

He's in it until the convention! Go Bernie, Go!

..they should think of him? Your meanspirited criticism just makes people support him more.

In an unrelated storyline, I need to go as my Brock check has arrived and needs to be cashed the currency exchange.

.. Bernie has better sense than listen to crackpots advice about what he should or shouldn't do.

Let us all know how Hillary will "be remembered as anything other than an entitled spoiler who stood in the way of the candidate chosen by the people" after the Federal indictment(s) come down.

Okay?

I think many of them are simply cruel and are giving a boost to Donald Trump. Those who help Trump are not on my side and I want them to know we will not sit silent in the face of the constant attacks on our integrity as humans and watch them demand incarceration for a sixty something year old woman over record keeping issues.

If people want to be nasty and continue the primary while calling for her arrest and calling us everytype of sycophant in the universe, we will fight back and fight donald at the same time. If your side wants to lay off the namecalling and calls for her arrest we will likewise stfu about Bernie. Attack and be attacked. Extend a hand in fellowship and find many hands reaching out. The time for lashing out in anger is over. We need to move on but one side wants to draw thing losing battle out and lob bombs so, it is what it is.

Some people value truth and honor over internal party politics. We don't see the same HRC you see, and we expect that there will be equal justice under the law if crimes are proven.

A sixty something year old woman (play two pity cards there!) is not under attack for record keeping issues, and to say so is dishonest. Clearly dishonest.

If you want to be thought to have integrity, then don't be spouting dishonesty.

It doesn't matter.

I tried.

You point out that Clinton has been criticized on various grounds, and you defend Clinton supporters for posting their contrary views. I have no problem with posts of that sort.

But, just in the last few days, there've been multiple threads attacking Jane Sanders, who isn't even running. That's a stark example of what you say you deplore: people who "want to be nasty and continue the primary...."

Many Clinton supporters on DU have said, as the OP points out, that the race is over, it's done, we have our nominee, Bernie should drop out so we can focus on Trump, etc. On that view, even attacking Bernie is a waste of time, let alone attacking Jane. Why aren't people focusing on Trump instead of taking so much interest in the finances of a small college?

As a side note on your post, you're not in a good position to whine about "attacks on our integrity as humans" when, less than an hour later, you tell a Sanders supporter, "I do not believe you one bit." It kind of undercuts your attempted moral high ground.

She goes on talkshows and points the finger and attacks Hillary. Fingers are pointing back.

The Clinton supporter dogma (at least on DU) is that this race is absolutely positively over, we have our nominee, math math math, call it Skinner, tell people to stop saying anything negative about Hillary Clinton (or, presumably, Bill) because she's the nominee and therefore any criticism on any basis whatsoever only helps Trump, and Bernie should withdraw so we can focus on Trump.

If all that were true, there'd be no reason to attack Bernie's wife, whether or not she's a surrogate. After all, she's not a surrogate for a currently viable candidate, is she?

The point is that Clinton supporters are hypocritical. If there's still a race on then criticism of Hillary Clinton is perfectly justifiable. If there's not still a race on then criticism of Jane Sanders is a waste of time, and anyone who posted about Burlington College is AWOL in the fight against Trump. You can't have it both ways.

...are simply about how Clinton has the nomination in the bag (which is largely a response to all of the posts about how Sanders can still win). Not all, but most. But since the anti-Clinton posts on GDP *far* outnumber the anti-Sanders posts on GDP, it stands to reason that there will be pushback from Clinton supporters (humans be humans), and some of that pushback is going to mirror the anti-Clinton posts (i.e., it's going to be about things other than delegate math, such as a negative story involving Jane Sanders or the money given to Chuck Todd's wife by the Sanders campaign, etc.).

Furthermore, people can both push back against Sanders *and* Trump. But, in GDP, posts about Republicans aren't allowed. And there's no telling, of course, how people are spending their time when not posting at DU--they could be out knocking on doors for Clinton for all we know.

Bill's penis? No? Then guess what? This SCANDAL of Jane's shows her level of corruption and him playing a role in it shows his level of integrity. If his side wants to fight dirty then I guess we will just have to match them.

This is a serious issue, bankrupting a college. We need to look into it. Investigate it. See what Bernie had to do with it. Discuss it daily. Perhaps jail time might be appropriate for those who deliberately lie to get loans and end up bankrupting a college. And him writing a letter is a bit shady, using his power to help her obtain loan that were not possible based on the actual donations recieved. Using the power of his senate position. Not cool. Seems highly illegal. It shoukd be investigated.

You defend the general principle of throwing mud at Bernie Sanders and his family. (I assume you would include other posts throwing mud at his campaign staff, his assorted surrogates, his supporters on DU, and everyone on Twitter or Reddit or at the Nevada convention or anywhere else who says they support Bernie.) That makes sense only in the context of an ongoing race for the nomination. I welcome your disavowal of what so many other Clinton supporters have said.

As to the specifics, I've paid even less attention to Burlington College than to Hillary Clinton's emails. Is it, as you claim, a serious issue? Well, I haven't heard that Burlington College has prompted an FBI investigation -- oh, pardon me, using that awful word marks me as a Hillary-hater and hence a Trump-humper, I meant to say that I haven't heard that Burlington College has prompted an FBI security review or inquiry or whatever the approved euphemism is. But, if you think it deserves post after post and endless discussion, have at it. Just don't claim that we're forcing you to do it.

By the way, your reference to "you guys" seems to insinuate that everyone who supports Bernie is "calling for the arrest and imprisonment of Hillary" and is "talking about Bill's penis". That's clearly false. I realize that we may all look alike to you, and that some Clinton supporters act as if we're a cult that blindly follows our leader and savior without ever thinking for ourselves, but you should make the effort to discard those comforting beliefs. Sanders has many supporters with an independent and opinionated turn of mind. We sometimes disagree with each other.

This is why this happens, you guys refuse to check each other on using rightwing sources to destroy Hillary, but expect us to treat Bernie and Jane with kidgloves and be nice to them.

That entire college shut down because of Jane's actions and you want us to not discuss it while Jane has run around herself finger pointing at others. Doesn't matter if the fbi has not investigated her yet or him for helping her get the loan, but it seems rather like he should have not used his senatoral powers in such a way. Looks bad to be calling others corrupt while one is acting in that manner.

Now, since there actually has been post after post after post begging praying wishing hoping against hope that Hillary gets ARRESTED! I just cannot feel bad about any posts attacking Bernie or Jane. I would prefer both sides stop but one side thinks that it is acceptable fo them to trash hillary night and day, so i guess it's okay to attack bernie and jane day after day until they go home. I Expect the attacks on him to increase by the hour until he goes back to VT.

As all my posts make clear, I most assuredly do NOT "expect {you} to treat Bernie and Jane with kidgloves and be nice to them." That's because I agree with you that there's an ongoing race for the nomination. Whether any particular attack, be it against Sanders or against Clinton, has merit, is of course another story, but I'm not among those calling for a cessation of the contested campaign for the nomination.

Only trying to check us on telling about bernie and jane and their documented history. Which is hypocritical.

This forum been infiltrated by all sorts to disrupt our process...we tire of it

And a lot of fascinating stuff from a human psychology perspective. The conspiracy theories, the straw man arguments, the disconnect between perception and reality...all very interesting.

... that I have every intention of spending a good amount of my 1% money on a seriously fun party when their candidate loses.

You don't get to be in the race, still threatening to sue the party for every little thing you disagree with, and then expect no one to say a bad word about you.

defending Hillary from Berniefan BS.

You are one of the prime movers of said BS, jillian.

More focus should be on pumping up Hillary and attacking Donald Dump.

the presumptive nominee on June 7.

I am not putting in any time attacking Bernie Sanders. I look forward to the party uniting to defeat Donald Trump and take back the Congress.

If he had the majority of popular votes, the lead in caucus state wins and the superdelegate majority to put him over the 2283 delegate top. But he doesn't, at this point.
I also do not presume that Hillary Clinton will be the nominee. I'll wait and see how it all plays out.

Bernie Sanders: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1280

Hillary Clinton: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1107

between Hillary and Bernie supporters here on the DU. Why would they stop as long as they can. Others get sacked into it.

But there also are old-time DU members who are acting very foolishly and being used by those trolls.

Do their ranks include those numerous DUers who purport to be Clinton supporters and who heap vile personal insults on Sanders supporters?

Do their ranks also include the DUers who rec such posts?

But Hillary has turned to the general...Bernie will face facts in 7 days.

I guess they feel we're endangering our mental health by supporting a lost cause, not getting on the party train, not being in the happy place, etc.

...there is no point in demanding Bernie's taxes or investigating his wife. Hillary's won, so damaging potential allies against Trump makes no sense.

and the anti Hillary hate posts and the Right wing conspiracy posts and the worship posts to the Indictment Fairy push the anti Trump posts off the site quick.

(2) they won't STFU.

Why aren't we moving along and letting Bernie supporters do their own thing??

As soon as you actually DO "go do your own thing," DU will be much better off. But Skinner decides when to lower the boom, not any of us.

it like the M$M is. Something big is coming down and they are on their last gasp. It is so obvious.

About Trump though, I'm just not feeling it from them. They are using his presence to try and shut Bernie out before whatever is coming down the pike shuts down their candidate.

The raw vitriol from Clinton supporters to Bernie supporters can be boiled down to this: "He needs to go away so she can win!"

unachievable ideologies out in the real world, where we know many people are susceptible. (Why do you think that ad spending makes such a big difference?) I think of it as a public service to keep them busy here.

And every time I posted in GD, I would get locked for mentioning Hillary.

it all points to a Weathervane that fears the oncoming storm.

Last edited Mon May 30, 2016, 04:19 PM - Edit history (1)

those attacking Bernie.

I can't respond to most of the attacks on Hillary because are posted in the Bernie group and I've been blocked.

I spend pretty much all day, every day on twitter and that's where they are really dragging Bernie HARD.

Bernie earned it given the recent shift in his tone. However, HRC has shifted to the general so I also retweet as much negative shit about Trump as possible. He's the real danger.

And it stands to reason that there will be pushback from Clinton supporters given how many more anti-Clinton posts there are than anti-Sanders posts.

As long as Senator Sanders continues to act as a useful tool for Republicans, he is hurting our chances in November. He is already being used on a daily basis by Trump against HRC.

I believe that he got into the race cynically believing that Republican wind would fill his sails. It took too long for Trump to secure the nomination to do Bernie any good. But now, after the Republican side has their nominee, the Vermont Senator is making up for lost time begging for help from Fox News. Thank goodness it's way too late. He's still harming the party, though, and needs to stop.

and it seems they surely are not...well sanders people believe sanders been vetted? Here we are discussing an incident of their past and it seems neither bernie or jane can handle ANY scrutiny. In fact Jane has gone into hiding. Attacking Jane? Really?? Looking for answers is not an attack....btw, what are they hiding with their tax returns? Sanders says trump should makes his public so why can't bernie?

virtue of truth??? don't think so


any way its done next week

I haven't noticed any slowdown in that here. They seem to be doing their thing quite freely. For now.