Sanders's supporters included people of all demographics.

I don't think people should be taunting or rubbing it in.

I do think we need to kick Trump's ass, and completely and utterly humiliate him and his party in November.

... take back the House and Senate. It would make a Clinton Presidency almost tolerable.

Obama was more liberal than Congress for his entire 8 years.

I know he had an obstructionist and dirty Congress to deal with, but I still feel like he could've done or pushed for more.

House member, where our margin of majority depended on Blue Dogs like Heath Shuler.

he definitely had bad moments (2011 debt crisis)

And they fucked around diddling endlessly with "town halls" instead of getting a whole bunch of shit done.

I'd like us to have a majority, but even more importantly if we get one I want us to actually USE it this time.

Then we had it for 7 whole months, when Scott Brown won. And of course the 58th, 59th, and 60th votes were real team players--Ben Nelson, Joe Lieberman, and Blanche Lincoln.

And there was also that whole "save the economy from a deflationary death spiral" thing he had to take care of right away upon being inaugurated.

You were saying?

Really.

They managed to dick around with Town halls, giving every crank with a tricorner hat a chance to yell incoherently on c-span.

The sad truth was that they looked like they didn't want to do very much with that powerful mandate for change.

Hopefully next time will be different. Right?


And I think "Frankenstein" was an autocorrect typo, no?

The stimulus, ACA, Dodd-Frank, Sotomayor, Russian nuke treaty ratification, Lily Ledbetter, repeal of DADT (that was less than 6 years ago)--all that happened in a two-year span, where Joe Lieberman and DINO Ben Nelson had a virtual veto.

Yeah they just sat around doing nothing.

You know who isn't on that list, despite all the noise about "not a real Democrat!". Who would have been a reliable vote for any progressive legislation?

Yeah, you do.

Leaders wrangle votes. I watched the HBO LBJ movie, and for all the guy's flaws... well, I hope Hillary has some of that pragmatic toughness once she gets to the oval office.

The ACA was a signature achievement- I've said as much- although we should have had the public option we were repeatedly promised.

But I expect more from my leaders, that's why I'm a progressive. I was pushing for marriage equality when the same crowd that now makes "420" jokes over cannabis legalization was telling our Gay and Lesbian citizens not to "demand a pony".

That's how we move forward, by expecting more from those who claim the mantle of leadership. I'm not going to apologize for that.

on Obamacare till they dropped the public option.

We had on 58 Democrats plus Sanders, who could be counted on, and Lieberman, who could not.

Like Harry Reed said he would. The filibuster needs to be changed even now.

They need to put a limit on the number of filibusters each senator gets. Or do away with the technical filibuster. Filibusters need to be rare and used for only important issues. Now they are used for everything.

But they never fixed it, so Obama was stuck.

Reid did nuke it for judicial nominations. Which was really a big deal.

if Democrats retake Congress and they continue to obstruct, further restrictions will probably be necessary

so no, we never had one we could count on.

months. You know, all us "berniebros", derp.

But, whatever. Wining ugly is still winning. Lets hope Brock is half as enthusiastic going after the Trumpertons as he has been to rub crap in the faces of the more progressive side of our own party.

Unity.

about online vitriol and name calling.

except in reality there are a-holes all over the interwebs, but there was a deliberate plan from the very beginning to churn up noise and smear jobs about "sanders supporters", because it allowed the conversation to be steered away from points of policy.

Hell, look at this website. The transparency page all-stars are by and large HRC people. Not because 'juries were out to get them', but because they were objectively more insulting to other members of this site. More frequently and more egregiously. You can believe me or not, but the transparency pages themselves don't lie. I experienced it myself, early on.

But again, whatever. It's over now. Like i said, I hope Brock knows how to go after right-wingers just as effectively. I certainly don't think Hillary is going to win by courting "megachurch moms" or whatever her people were thinking she should do next.

with Breitbart and Fox News links, who praise and champion Judicial Watch and openly push the "Hillary for Prison 2016" crap around here and who gave us "Stockholm Syndrome" posts and "slave mentality" posts and "smart progressives who are are voting for Trump" posts and alerted and hid posts about Beyoncé in the AA group are surely the impartial arbiters of site rules, as evidenced by such posts usually surviving juries.

Not to mention the lovely people who swarmed Dolores Huerta's charity's Facebook page to accuse her of bribery (a charge repeated here by Team Sanders multiple times) and who have periodically hurled abuse at Elizabeth Warren for not knowing her place (I.e. standing behind Bernie).



Sweet innocent victims of the mean ol' Brock monster.

No clue why Sanders supporters got a bad reputation online.

That's another one. Like how most of the the "Misogynistic attacks on Senator Warren" you mention were generally some form of "I disagree with you and think you're wrong", often coming from female sanders people.

But again, these things were deliberately spun in a way to propel a narrative. You know, the "violent Berniebros in Nevada" where there wasn't any actual, um, violence.

In fact, the only documented act of violence I've seen on our- the Democrats- side- aside from some clearly Latino protesters egging a Trump supporter, also spun as Sanders's fault- was the male actor who attacked a female Sanders supporter.

Again, the narrative is the narrative so it must be true, even if it's a known factual lie.

What about the nonstop blather accusing Sanders of being a pervy author of rape porn zomg!?!?! Or the thinly veiled Anti-semitism around the dreaded "commie kibbutz"? (among other things)

Sanders supporters were more vocal online because Sanders supporters have been, by and large, younger than Hillary's people. One group, demographically, is more represented on twitter, the other is more likely to still be unsure about this internet thingy. Which was part of the reason Brock had to hire people to troll.

Brock paid people to post on Twitter to rebut crap coming mostly from Trump supporters, but he wasn't paying people to post anonymously on websites or to taunt or otherwise make life unpleasant for Sanders supporters.


But you're correct about Sanders people being more likely to be online and thus able to engage in abusive Tweets.

Clinton people just vote.

Anyhow, here's a post that a jury full of Sanders supporters found perfectly acceptable, which tells you everything you need to know about (1) Sanders supporters' view on online vitriol and (2) why no Clinton supporters give a flying fug about their number of hides, as the jury system was clearly gamed:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1107&pid=30492

I could fine a whole ton, but it wouldn't prove any grand sweeping generalization any more than yours does.

"Berniebros are so real! They're REAL! REAL!"

derp.

Whatever, neither of us are gonna convince the other.

closet klan members or whatever.




But hopefully the air will clear a bit here, and not a moment too soon.

Do you think I will ever forgive those people? By the way, Brock did hire trolls. Spent a million on that one.

So hopefully now they will leave. Checks should dry out soon. Or get a new assignment away from here. But I will never forgive people. That includes the poster you are talking to. Somebody that has a history, primary or not.

He's just pulling your leg off, man.

I've read them. You earned them.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512158914

Hillary as Trump is. Please remove it.

I too pretend my opinions are reality. Bias suits us well, regardless of whether we admit as much or rationalize our fiction as objective truths (the latter be more far more popular to anyone requiring self-validation).

To rump.

presumptive nominee because she had to have 2383 PLEDGED delegates (not pledged combined with supers which would have been correct, just the pledged delegates)? http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2141007

Now you have a picture of Hillary turning into Trump and you think that's reality too? You and reality don't seem to be too fond of one another.

nt

Brings to mind the old Naderite complaint that there was no difference between Bush and Gore.

You support a shady lady you're gonna see worse than that

and you want him to remove that picture ?! What makes you think that you or any other Hill supporter are worthy of making a request like that ??? My advice: grow a pair.


Naughty list you go!!

Worth repeating:

Gets to the crux of the theft.

The article should be an OP and someone should get it up there soon so it can last until the censorship starts.

I'm emailing it around (us old people still do that) but it needs circulation. The American people need to understand what has been done.

I suggest you look at the updated totals and realize, even without 107 super delegates, she still wins. She's got 2178 pledged delegates and over 500 super delegates. Even if she gave 107 supers back, she still crosses the line.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/delegate-targets/democrats/

My opinion based on the evidence of polls and voter turnout impact.

Next you'll be telling me aliens beamed up all the Sanders votes. Enough with the conspiracy theories. Sanders lost by every measure. He lost by 4 million votes! I guess every vote for Clinton in every state is fraudulent, right? Get over it. It's time to move on.

Those are straw men which you've created.

In media and academic circles.

what got Hillary elected.

propaganda site. Might as well link Fox news.

Too many for Them to ignore. I think that we'll build something you can vote for.

they will round them up and arrest them.
Can you say Chicago 1968?

too! Don't sleep in Write In!

It's also been sickening to see people who affiliate with the Democratic Party support fracking, dismiss obvious election issues that caused voter disenfranchisment, not care aboue DWS opening up the DNC to corporate funding, not care what Hillary said in her speeches to Goldman-Sachs.

Honestly, there is no denying that Bernie is the candidate who best represents the core values of the Democratic Party and democracy itself. How can so many people who consider themselves Dems piss away this chance to have a real fighter? Someone who really and truly wants to put govt back in the hands of the people. We all know Hillary won't do that, she spits in our faces when she won't release her transcripts.

This primary has been a real eye opener. And this party has shown how it has become what the Republican Party was 30 years ago and that is not why I affiliate with and vote for the Democratic Party. The Republican stances on policy, the win at all costs - even at the cost of our very democracy - attitude, the welcoming of Wall Street influence. This is not my party, this is Reagan's party, this is Bush's party, but this is not the Democratic Party that once stood for the working people.

.

The Hill camp cheated all the way through and their media then called her the "winner" the night before six important primaries, an act of deliberate sabotage that nullifies her entire bogus campaign.

Hillary did NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, "win fair and square."

We're rather tired of verbal assaults from Hillary supporters.

most for personal attacks on Sanders supporters.

We should get UN observers next time.

you want, doesn't make your point valid. The Democratic Party has a broad range of membership and if you push them too hard too fast, you'll push some over to the Republicans, negating the advances you want to make.

They have moved steadily rightward since Bill Clinton embraced the DLC.

Do you think Obama fighting for the TPP and offering up SS cuts is moving left? Get real.

.

Trade deal after Trade deal, the problem is US Governments have failed in understanding how capitalise on new open markets. As for Social issues, the Democratic Party have continually moved to the left, while at the same time being responsible on fiscal issues. And hotheads like yourself refuse to accept that Obama's administration have to work with a Republican dominated House and Senate. There's only so much they can do on that front. So all those crying crocodile tears now, get out and vote at the next midterm, then more change can happen.

Brought by these agreements is no friend of mine.

If you have no idea, and I suspect you don't, what they have done here and abroad, you should do some extensive reading, Amirite. Oh and before you use Trump...he is a fascist

Anyone objecting to the TPP in no better than Trump?

Lets take a look at the undeniable evidence:


Korean Free Trade Deal devastating for US Workers
(Prototype for the TPP)

services, increased H-1B visas, the TPP and other corporate "trade" deals, cluster bombs, interventionism and regime change, saying NO to single payer and saying YES to less Wall Street regulation.

The Democratic Party is oozing to the right, greased by big money. The New Democrat Coalition is a Third Way-advised group that more and more of Congress and mayors and governors belong to. DINOs.

What will happen, IMO, is the rise of a progressive/Liberal party. I hope so, because after August, when I will vote for an actual progressive in the primary for Rubio's seat (and Miss Debbie was none to happy about that), I will be "unaffiliated" for the first time in my life. I am ashamed to belong to a party that stands for the things I mentioned.

More bullshit.

I have never seen anything like it here, even at the height of the 2008 primary.

Clinton had a progressive overall record in the Senate and has committed herself in this campaign to progressive causes. She's a good person according to the people who know her and talk publicly about her.

Yet people think shes a liar and a criminal? On a site called Democratic Underground? I just don't get it.

It would be easy to say its just freeper trolls but these are people with thousands of posts!

Why do people hate her so much?

You have consciously rejected what you choose not to believe and accepted what you want to believe and that is where it ends.

You say you haven't seen anything like this even at the height of the 2008 election? Seriously? Hillary race-baited during that campaign. That was so disgusting. Current Hillary fans posted cartoons of her with HUGE capital letters saying 'LIAR' and sexist cartoons of her as well and now they defend her every breath. 2008 was much worse in that respect. 2016 is much worse in election fraud and the DNC tipping the scales for the corporate candidate.

Back to the lies and her not being progressive...

The lies go on and on and on. Have you not read anything about the OIG report? She constantly and consistently lied about that. Those are BIG lies and recent ones. If you don't think she is a liar then I guess you are not reading anything about her.

Also, she is not progressive at all.

She takes corporate money, lots of it.

She gives speeches to Goldman-Sachs, the content of which she refuses to divulge to the public.

She is for free trade agreements.

She is for the TPP. (we know what "in its current form" means)

She is for fracking and pushed for it worldwide.

She is backed by the private prison industry.

She was for mass incarceration.

She called young blacks superpredators.

She did some truly ugly race-baiting in 2008.

She is willing to compromise on a woman's right to control her own body.

She is a warhawk.

She is against single-payer health care, perhaps because she's gotten millions from Big Pharma.


Those are decidedly NOT progressive values no matter how you slice and dice them. And then she used some truly nasty smears against Bernie, the man who actually IS a progressive and who is not in any way, shape or form beholden to corporate masters. And she stood by silently as caucus leadership toyed with the election process in her favor, stood by silently as voters were disenfranchised, it's truly ugly what happened this primary season.

To answer your last question, she is a nasty, arrogant person and a dirty politician.

.

I think of Charlie Sheen .... Winning !!!!

you-know-what, but he's funny as hell and I can't help it. I watch all the reruns when they are on.

She said plenty of things this primary season that made me and plenty of my liberal friends roll our eyes or cringe, people who used to look up to and support her. It is decidedly offensive to be called out for holding a candidates own words against her.

No one is forcing you to support Hillary. She won and it is time to stop the drama here on DU. Take it to Facebook or somewhere equally repulsive.

I never side I wouldn't support her. I was addressing your insistence that "the drama is amazing."

So you are now no longer involved in the game. You take yourself out. Fine. I don't have to care.

why are you in this thread? Surely there are enough others in the forum.

We have discovered some shocking and disappointing things about the Dem party via this Primary. I don't think they would've ever come to light if a challenger from outside the party, and a very good one at that, had not decided to run against a very bad establishment candidate. That contrast made it crystal clear.

What we found out: that the vote stealing apparatus of the Repubs works for the Dems too, apparently that's why it's never fixed. Also, it's not as we always heard in the past, that Dems hate having to constantly raise money, gee we wish we didn't have to... no, they're all-in for the corrupt money, love it, and wouldn't have it any other way. As a corollary to that, we also learned that big, corrupt financing isn't necessary after all as we always thought, that grassroots funding does in fact work.

Also that the voters don't decide who to elect, the party insiders get their way, and it's always someone who will protect the graft gravy train -- that must be done at all costs.. And we always thought that we were the fact-based party, until we saw how that any meme that benefits the elites will beat down the truth in a second, quickly entrenched by the complicit and bought mass media. If real events aren't convenient, stage some that fit the talking points better!

Deny your opponent's admirable qualities, and attribute your own depravity to them, gee, that's so clever! Operate by "the Big Lie" at all times. Nobody cares about what is actually true (that's CT), we only care about what people think is true... and that is so malleable.

And most disappointing of all, the year of the fallen icons. We found that the icons who we thought were advocating for us in the halls of power, were doing anything but that, and were willing to step forward and blatantly lie about the best man among them to protect the gravy train that we now know they are all about. We don't matter in the least, it was all an image.

But Bernie proved to be for real. And most of us will want to be part of whatever he decides will help us all (although I don't think that anything or anyone could make voting for all of the above seem like a good idea. A line has to be drawn somewhere). God bless the man.

Just his presence in the race showed us a lot, and I hope we don't forget it or deny it.

God Bless US.

Most of the people I already liked, took Bernie's side.

I don't think that's a coincidence.

Rachel Maddow...Madeleine Albright...Gloria Steinem...

Dolores Huerta. ..

We are an oligarchy, through and through.

And a poster on the daily kos said something like this:

The Republicans are the party of the 1% and socially conservative. The Democrats are the party of the 1% and socially liberal. They throw out social issues for us to fight over as they run away with the bank and send us to the poorhouse.


It was a great comment! And another person said that Hillary's Dems are the wealthy and professional Dems for the most part. They do NOT want the Have Nots taking anything away from the Haves. That must be avoided at all costs!! So even though Dem, they really are more Republican in their wanting to protect what they have from the "dirtbag poor."

I really thought that was insightful.

Whole heartedly illuminating about the horrible corrupt process. I too share your sorrow for a whole host of fallen icons. That's been devastating.

but if i can vet for gore/lieberfuckenputz, KERRY's 'plan', i will vote for hillary's damn woman card, cause i do NOT wanna live w/ pRESIDENT drumpf & a TROPHY wife.

Enjoy your privilege.

I refuse the bow down and 'take it'

No ... The future is not lost ... It is ours for the taking ...

This juggernaut of Bernie's opened our eyes about a LOT of problems in the only political party I ever belonged to .. I want my party back!

We need to take it back ...

After Philadelphia, come what may, we will need to KEEP GOING, and rebuild the party from the ground up, and swallow the DNC leadership in an overwhelming show of support for the progressive agenda ...

Young people want 'NOT ME - US' ... They know what's at stake, and they are just as pissed as we are at the course of events, especially the dishonest fraud of a primary season, where naked political ambition trumped fairness and right ...

No ... This isn't going to be over in November ... Not next January ... Not in four years ...

Enough IS enough ... Let's take our country back! ....

Come on, you know that is a fairy tale. You will never be able to take over the democratic party like except with something on a near impossible scope and scale.

This election demonstrated that the left has no place in the Democratic party. Period. It is time to let the right wingers have it.

Imagine what could have happened had Bernie telegraphed his intentions earlier, and given the electorate more time to operate ...

You don't know me ... Extreme pessimism is not my way ... If anybody can fight for something, we can ...

Feel free to give up and wallow in pessimism ... I won't be there ...

And was frustrated at every single step of the process against an orthodoxy that had surprisingly let their guard down before it became apparent Sanders was actually competitive. The next round they are going to even more ruthless and vigilant against a repeat of this, and will likely spend the next 4-8 years purging the party of the left to ensure it doesn't happen again.

voters that they are economically different than the Republicans when they have more similarities than differences.

I think that the Dems, who are now 29% of the electorate, will see their number fall under 20%. As it should. They left the people right after Reagan.

corporations are represented more than citizens, so that we lose every damn fucking time. This is what needs to change, if the citizenry cannot be heard even when we win a state's election by numbers, it is NO WONDER why people just opt out of an obviously rigged system. But then again the crooked ones do not believe in democracy so it is one of their goals to demoralize us to interfere with our participation.

This is what is so infuriating--to see another generation having to fight even harder to be heard. I am so proud of all of these people who are now motivated to work for a sustainable future for us all, and PROUD of everyone here who have stood up for what is right and remained respectful in the midst of some of the cruelest and dirtiest tactics I have ever seen in my life. May we all remain safe and strong in the coming season and beyond.

This revolution must not end, even if Bernie doesn't get elected president.

I feel much the same way you do about the way too frequent sickeningly obnoxious comments from the other side. We should keep in mind that some unknown number of them come from paid trolls.

I started out as leaning Bernie but quickly becoming disenchanted for these reasons:
--got tired of his sanctimoniousness
--read up on his actual record in Congress and came away unimpressed. Ditto his pre-Senate biography
--read the details of his electoral platform and realized that the math did not add up and it was not achievable (confirmed in spades by his disastrous Daily News interview)
--became concerned by his refusal to talk about foreign relations, even in the aftermath of a disaster. Asked at the debate in November to speak about the Paris massacre, Sanders got out a few feeble words of sympathy and then launched into his standard anti-Wall Street speech. Sorry but POTUS has to deal with many issues around the world, not just his pet peeves
--got turned off by the quasi-religious fervor of many of his supporters who believed he just about literally walked on water and raised the dead
--when he started talking about starting a "movement," looked for any evidence that he had ever supported groups like OWS, and found none (making me question his authenticity as a grassroots populist)
--became frustrated when his supporters (I work with a few) denied, time and again, that 2+2 = 4
--got tired of the Bernie bros and their baseless, vicious anti-Hillary screeds which were lifted straight out of the GOP playbook
--was appalled when instead of condemning the violence of his supporters in Nevada and showing some leadership, Sanders fired off salvos complaining about the Democratic Party -- my party that I have belonged to all my life, the one he only joined last year -- and how it was being unfair to him

There, that felt good!

I'm the same demographic and also supported Bernie at first. I have EXACTLY the same complaints as you about him!

and reflects my feelings as well.

Calling someone who has been fighting for the poor and powerless for 40 years sanctimonious means you aren't really thinking seriously about the horrendous conditions we have in this country for the poor, minorities and many other groups.

war and fracking and H-1B visas and "trade" deals and cluster bombs and Third way slashing of social services, then!

Oh, wait - those are actual fucking ISSUES that affect everybody's life, so I guess you are not interested. Gee, maybe you think that our kids should just be thrilled to go and die or be killed if it is a Hillary war, right? And it is an honor to keep paying increasing ACA premiums and co-pays, amiright? Those people whose water is poisoned by fracking - well, hey! First woman president! Drink that water and smile! or you are a misogynist!

The things Hillary proudly stands for hurt other people. Not the Clintons or their buddies, of course.

This is what is important, not any politicians' followers. I won't enable Hillary, I will be unaffiliated after an August primary, and I don't care who she has as her pandering-for-votes VP.

By the way, I am that same demographic. 70 year old woman. And I am ashamed of what the "Democratic" party has become.

who cared enough to vote in Democratic Primaries wanted Hillary Clinton by 56% to 43%. We live in a democratic republic, a majority of the voters have spoken.

I sure as hell won't be sleeping in on election Day. I will be voting for the Democratic candidate no matter who it is. Can't have a republican, especially trump, win.

Its duty is to GOTV of a fully educated and informed populace.

But even its chosen candidate got 30% less votes than it did in 2008.

What the party succeeded at was depressing the vote, limiting the debate, and obfuscating the alternative to its desired candidate.

It is getting harder and harder to convince anyone to vote, much harder to get them to join the party.

The party is a failure at its core.

It will all run it's course, so let us all breathe and support each other.

for the next four years I do not have to hear the word sexism everyday if Hillary wins. I watched the view this morning for as long as I could take it and everything had to do with sexism. Hillary wants to portray herself as just as strong as any man so stop playing up everything as a woman issue,men vote too.


I am a woman and this works on my nerves, Obama supporters called racism but he never did. Seems as though this will be the theme of her campaign.

Yes,some things are sexist but not everything and I do not want to see a stage full of women on every issue. Is she going to be the President for just women?

People calling that shit out!?

fucking tough stop crying.

today? Because that won't last for very long, that's for sure. It is not always a valid complaint.

If you mention it you hate her or you are against women.

Liberals/Progressives used to suffer that abuse by republican/cons/right-wingers. Now we're getting in from inside OUR party.

and those who publicly say they won't vote in a presidential election. That's nothing new.

This tension is not just old, but deepening. The party is also starting to fracture as the old coalition is jettisoned.