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MineralMan

(146,359 posts)
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 01:31 PM Jul 2016

Could the plagiarism have been deliberate sabotage, with a clue left behind?

I wouldn't think that, except for the inclusion of the "never give up, never let you down" line, a near-quote from the classic Rick-Roll song. If I were going to RF a speech like that and planned to bail afterwards, that's something I might do as a signature for my work. As a long-time prankster, leaving a bit of evidence behind was always part of the prank.

Did Melania and the GOP get Rick-Rolled? Could be.

I'm thinking maybe there's a rat in the room, doing what political rats sometimes do.

54 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Could the plagiarism have been deliberate sabotage, with a clue left behind? (Original Post) MineralMan Jul 2016 OP
I am hoping so. apcalc Jul 2016 #1
'RF'? Rightly fuck (up)? Cirque du So-What Jul 2016 #2
It's long been an abbreviation for MineralMan Jul 2016 #3
Learn something new every day Cirque du So-What Jul 2016 #6
That was coined by Lee Atwater WhiteTara Jul 2016 #30
It goes back to the early 60s, and was in wide use in California. MineralMan Jul 2016 #37
Thanks. His name stuck in my mind WhiteTara Jul 2016 #38
No idea. I remember using it in high school with regard to pranks of MineralMan Jul 2016 #39
Thanks. My ears were still covered in cotton during WhiteTara Jul 2016 #41
As in Karl RF Rove. L. Coyote Jul 2016 #47
Me too! PatSeg Jul 2016 #4
Really not the point... brooklynite Jul 2016 #5
The Trump campaign has demonstrated its incompetence again MineralMan Jul 2016 #7
Well, if it was the accused culprit...friend of Manaforte WhiteTara Jul 2016 #33
I concur with your analysis PJMcK Jul 2016 #42
Yeah, well, some people arent very hip or clued in. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #24
As with the original TP logo, sabotage is a plausible explanation. (nt) enough Jul 2016 #8
Well, if so, I'm overcome with envy. MineralMan Jul 2016 #9
It's Trump's show. Wash. state Desk Jet Jul 2016 #10
Every campaign hires speechwriters. Some also do other content, MineralMan Jul 2016 #11
It was far too deliberate in my opinion. Wash. state Desk Jet Jul 2016 #17
Since one of the sons is a Trump, WhiteTara Jul 2016 #35
I think it could be. The rick roll thing sealed it for me. Darb Jul 2016 #12
Yup. That's what made me start thinking about pranking. MineralMan Jul 2016 #13
I'd be willing to bet that if they find him/her, Darb Jul 2016 #15
Could be someone from the never-Trump camp? Her Sister Jul 2016 #29
Turns out it was Melania herself, Darb Jul 2016 #43
woah! Speechless... Her Sister Jul 2016 #44
I think that is why they circled the wagons and would not budge. Darb Jul 2016 #45
Melania could not personalize her feelings & life with Trump? Her Sister Jul 2016 #46
Apparently not, from the New York Times article..... Darb Jul 2016 #48
So Melania RFed her own self? MineralMan Jul 2016 #49
Check the NYT article: Darb Jul 2016 #50
Hmm...no word from the ghost-writer so far. MineralMan Jul 2016 #52
Maybe this McIver person, Darb Jul 2016 #51
I'm giving you your 5th Rec just out of sheer fascination. Hekate Jul 2016 #14
Thanks. I could be wrong, of course. MineralMan Jul 2016 #16
Could be. I hope he or she can take a bow for this master work some day. StrictlyRockers Jul 2016 #18
Well, if it was a prank, the prankster will be MineralMan Jul 2016 #21
YES LynneSin Jul 2016 #19
That would be delicious AgingAmerican Jul 2016 #20
It would add a measure of interest, MineralMan Jul 2016 #22
It's pretty fuckin' funny, either way. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #23
Yes, it is. MineralMan Jul 2016 #26
Next up, in Cleveland, a musical number! Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #25
And Trump will be phoning in his speech shortly. MineralMan Jul 2016 #27
James Carville is saying the same thing Cali_Democrat Jul 2016 #28
I beat him to the punch. MineralMan Jul 2016 #32
I'm thinking it's the best thing to happen to trump yeoman6987 Jul 2016 #31
It's not in the nature of a republican to refuse Ilsa Jul 2016 #34
That seems the least likely possibilities to me, MineralMan Jul 2016 #36
yes, the least likely...but anything Ilsa Jul 2016 #40
Trump campaign is blaming Meredith McIver, a ghostwriter for a number of Trump's books. Koinos Jul 2016 #53
there is one other parallel that could be drawn with the use of Astley's words. Sheepshank Jul 2016 #54

MineralMan

(146,359 posts)
3. It's long been an abbreviation for
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 01:42 PM
Jul 2016

"Rat Fuck." It was in use even back in the early 1960s. The technique has been in use politically since the beginning of politics. A mole place in an opponent's campaign is usually the source of the RFing.

MineralMan

(146,359 posts)
39. No idea. I remember using it in high school with regard to pranks of
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 08:43 PM
Jul 2016

various kinds. I graduated in 1963.

WhiteTara

(29,739 posts)
41. Thanks. My ears were still covered in cotton during
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 08:49 PM
Jul 2016

the early sixties. I didn't graduate for a couple more years and I wasn't free enough to prank.

brooklynite

(95,074 posts)
5. Really not the point...
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 01:44 PM
Jul 2016

...whether there was a mole or not (and I don't think there was), it's still the job of the campaign team to check for things like this.

MineralMan

(146,359 posts)
7. The Trump campaign has demonstrated its incompetence again
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 01:52 PM
Jul 2016

and again. Those instances of plagiarism probably would have gone unnoticed by anyone who previewed the content of the speech. They would appear innocuous and apt in the speech, and would have gotten by. I don't know that there's a mole that close to the campaign, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

I wouldn't suspect this except for the Rick-Roll paraphrase. That has the classic look of a signature by the culprit, frankly. It's kind of like tagging a building. A true prankster wants to sign his or her work.

I stopped doing pranks in about 2000. But I was seriously into pranksterism before that, and pulled off some epic ones. All were harmless, but some were close to spectacular. In every one of them, there was a signature. That was an essential aspect of a major prank. Only those who knew me and who were also pranksters knew what that signature was.

The more I think about this speech, the more I suspect a prankster at work. He or she might not be a real mole from the other campaign, but could be working as an individual, but the Rick-Roll thing has the mark of a signature.

WhiteTara

(29,739 posts)
33. Well, if it was the accused culprit...friend of Manaforte
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 08:26 PM
Jul 2016

who is staying, we may see more...wouldn't that be fun?

PJMcK

(22,078 posts)
42. I concur with your analysis
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 09:16 PM
Jul 2016

And your personal revelation about your prankster past explains partly why I enjoy your writings, MineralMan. We have a similar past. I pulled off several sweet stunts and you're absolutely right: one must sign their work. It's how we claim our successes to the underground.

In the end, we'll find out what happened when everyone writes their books about the colossal failure of the Trump campaign.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
24. Yeah, well, some people arent very hip or clued in.
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 07:58 PM
Jul 2016

When people live in an isolated bubble, this is what happens.

MineralMan

(146,359 posts)
9. Well, if so, I'm overcome with envy.
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:04 PM
Jul 2016

If it was a prank, it was a masterstroke. I've pulled a few major ones that had some national recognition, but nothing quite that major. I've stayed away from political pranks, for the most part, although not always. I dabbled in political pranks while still in high school, though. One of those backfired, though, which cured me of messing around with political pranking.

I shifted to other areas after that.

Wash. state Desk Jet

(3,426 posts)
10. It's Trump's show.
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:05 PM
Jul 2016

If you were to think about it,where in the world would Trump find a writer to write a grand introduction speech that she would be able to give convincingly and coherently ? Super models don't give speechs ! And they don't have to deal with memorizing lines or scripts like actors do.So she has no real public speaking experience.And clearly, she is no natural down those avenues.

Aside from all that, Trump doesn't pay ! So again, where in the world would Trump find a writer to trump her up ! Is what you see really what you get ?

MineralMan

(146,359 posts)
11. Every campaign hires speechwriters. Some also do other content,
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:12 PM
Jul 2016

like social media and website content. How well such writers are vetted varies, although if you're writing for candidates and those close to them, you're likely to have been fairly well vetted.

For someone to have pranked Melania's convention speech, he or she would have had to build considerable trust. That would take real dedication. It wouldn't be easy to get into such a position, but possible. You'd need a history of writing political speeches and collateral without any blemishes to speak of.

Still, politics is a strange business. Not all writers who work for politicians are necessarily wholly in a particular politician's camp. It's a profession, really, and talented speechwriters aren't easy to find. Something as big as a convention speech might be enough to induce a person to bow out of the trade with a bang, so to speak.

Just as the ghost-writer for Trump's Art of the Deal book went public recently and trashed Trump, it's always possible for a writer to have had enough and take that step. Writers are a little strange, anyhow.

Wash. state Desk Jet

(3,426 posts)
17. It was far too deliberate in my opinion.
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:38 PM
Jul 2016

I can imagine Trump himself rubbing his hands together in glee ,the sociopath he is over the thought of putting it over on it.Trump same as any thief thinks everything is for the taking. The context was all there, all they had to do was refashion it and put in a lot of the Donald. Chalk it all up to having been short changed, that is just where Trump basks himself in sheer delight.But that's just my opinion.

And there was no real way for them to find a good speech writer just for her on such short notice ! And that's the art of the scam.

WhiteTara

(29,739 posts)
35. Since one of the sons is a Trump,
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 08:30 PM
Jul 2016

could the speech writer be another? As someone says, he doesn't like to pay. He does have his one media person, she might be doing double duty.

 

Darb

(2,807 posts)
12. I think it could be. The rick roll thing sealed it for me.
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:13 PM
Jul 2016

I was suspecting a plant after I heard the side by side videos. then the rick roll? Whoa.

MineralMan

(146,359 posts)
13. Yup. That's what made me start thinking about pranking.
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:18 PM
Jul 2016

It's a classic prankster-style signature. To do something like that, though, you'd have to be willing to blow your cover and maybe destroy your career as a speechwriter. Might be worth it, though, in the case of Trump.

If someone gets fired, it will be interesting to see who it is. In my dark heart, I hope it was a master prank. I'd tip my hat several times to that prankster, for sure.

 

Darb

(2,807 posts)
15. I'd be willing to bet that if they find him/her,
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:24 PM
Jul 2016

they will blame it all on Hillary. She sent them into the campaign to sabotage. But Trump is having a fit right now for sure. That is why he isn't talking. They are scraping him off the ceiling.

But think about it, if they admit a mole sabotaged the speech that is pretty damning evidence of incompetence. They are in the shit for sure.

 

Darb

(2,807 posts)
43. Turns out it was Melania herself,
Wed Jul 20, 2016, 08:45 AM
Jul 2016

with a bit of help from some ghostwriter that had helped with Don the Con's books. They never proofed it. The original was picked to pieces by Melania and rewritten.

 

Darb

(2,807 posts)
45. I think that is why they circled the wagons and would not budge.
Wed Jul 20, 2016, 09:12 AM
Jul 2016

She's clueless and they are incompetent.

 

Her Sister

(6,444 posts)
46. Melania could not personalize her feelings & life with Trump?
Wed Jul 20, 2016, 09:16 AM
Jul 2016

Was that a lot to ask from her? She needed to plagiarize from the much hated Black Prez's wife??? from FLOTUS?

MineralMan

(146,359 posts)
49. So Melania RFed her own self?
Wed Jul 20, 2016, 09:51 AM
Jul 2016

How fitting that is. No wonder the campaign is trying to soft-soap this whole thing.

 

Darb

(2,807 posts)
50. Check the NYT article:
Wed Jul 20, 2016, 09:55 AM
Jul 2016
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/us/politics/melania-trump-convention-speech.html?_r=1

The writers said she took it and dismantled it. She had help though, but that person is still silent. Maybe they are the RFer.

The person who gave Melania the help is......Meredith McIver, a New York City-based former ballet dancer and English major who has worked on some of Mr. Trump’s books, including “Think Like a Billionaire.”
 

Darb

(2,807 posts)
51. Maybe this McIver person,
Wed Jul 20, 2016, 10:01 AM
Jul 2016

was the one who did the deed. Or perhaps, maybe McIver passed it off to some underling who saw the chance and took it, signing it with the RickRoll.

Hekate

(91,057 posts)
14. I'm giving you your 5th Rec just out of sheer fascination.
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:20 PM
Jul 2016

I can hardly wait for Steven Colbert tonight.

MineralMan

(146,359 posts)
16. Thanks. I could be wrong, of course.
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:31 PM
Jul 2016

We may actually never know. Still, pranking can be very serious stuff, and there are masters of it out there. I was always a second-tier prankster in my day, but still part of a tradition of pranking. I got a couple of hat tips from a few of the masters, but was always too timid to put a lot on the line for a prank.

My peak effort was a prank on Bill Gates and Microsoft that went international in scope. I disguised my signature poorly, though, and my identity became known. Fortunately, Gates had a sense of humor about it, and I skated on what might have been the consequences. It was nip and tuck, though, for my career at the time.

That was pretty much the end of my serious pranking. I decided to make that my final prank and stopped doing it pretty much, and never again on that scale.

Melania's speech, though, sure looks like someone's work, though. Bless their hearts, if that's so.

MineralMan

(146,359 posts)
21. Well, if it was a prank, the prankster will be
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:54 PM
Jul 2016

fired. That could lead to the person revealing more about it. Personally, I'd be a little frightened to prank someone as unpredictable as Trump. I think he could be dangerous in a real way.

Still, if the worst consequence was being fired, then you can expect to hear about the prank from the person who pulled it off. It's too good to keep quiet, I think, even though it would effectively end one's career.

LynneSin

(95,337 posts)
19. YES
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:52 PM
Jul 2016

Trump never wanted to be president. He just wanted the publicity. But who knew that the United States was filled with low IQ white people desperate for a candidate to tell them 'It's OK to be a racist white person'

Go figure.

MineralMan

(146,359 posts)
22. It would add a measure of interest,
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 07:45 PM
Jul 2016

for sure. New information is emerging, too. Appear fly, the writer hired to write the speech say the speech she read was n o t what he wrote.

MineralMan

(146,359 posts)
27. And Trump will be phoning in his speech shortly.
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 08:19 PM
Jul 2016

He split for New York already. He's done with Cleveland and all those peons.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
31. I'm thinking it's the best thing to happen to trump
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 08:25 PM
Jul 2016

No talk of Rudy, the woman whose son died, sessions, chachi, etc. I bet trump did this on purpose. I didn't think so until 5 when every station was talking mrs trump.

Ilsa

(61,721 posts)
34. It's not in the nature of a republican to refuse
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 08:29 PM
Jul 2016

a good rat fucking when the opportunity presents itself.

And I wouldn't put it past one of don the con's grown kids to screw her over, just for fun, no matter what the consequences could be.

MineralMan

(146,359 posts)
36. That seems the least likely possibilities to me,
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 08:31 PM
Jul 2016

but I don't know the family dynamics, which are probably complicated.

Ilsa

(61,721 posts)
40. yes, the least likely...but anything
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 08:44 PM
Jul 2016

can happen with families, especially when money and power are involved. Still, I think the simplest explanations probably fit.

Koinos

(2,792 posts)
53. Trump campaign is blaming Meredith McIver, a ghostwriter for a number of Trump's books.
Wed Jul 20, 2016, 10:16 AM
Jul 2016

"Trump campaign blaming ghostwriter Meredith McIver for Melania plagiarism scandal"

After 24 hours of confusion and the campaign’s resistance to admit to plagiarism, it seems America finally has an answer from the Trump campaign confirming it was plagiarism and that a close friend might be responsible. The New York Times reports Trump’s son-in-law commissioned the speech from speechwriters Matthew Scully and John McConnell but Ms. Trump asked family friend Meredith McIver, who was listed as a co-author on four of Trump’s books including “Think Like A Billionaire.” McIver is a former ballet dancer and English major, but it isn’t clear how much she influenced the speech.


https://www.rawstory.com/2016/07/trump-campaign-blaming-ghostwriter-meredith-mciver-for-melania-plagiarism-scandal/
 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
54. there is one other parallel that could be drawn with the use of Astley's words.
Wed Jul 20, 2016, 10:25 AM
Jul 2016

Rick: one time musical wonder = Trump: one time political wonder

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