BLM are most definitely fake progressive. I don't see how you can defend them.

It's not a race thing. They booed the early speakers in the opening moments....They'll either run out of steam or else they'll boo white people too.

They certainly don't believe in democracy. Sometime you should try to think about why the Bernie "revolution" never caught on with minorities.

Me & my 86 year old mom just had a conversation......

over dinner about these Bernie "supporters" of which my mother and I were also. We decided that a lot of these "young 'uns" have always gotten what they wanted. Their parents always placating them and giving them pretty much whatever they wanted & they could afford.

They did not get what they wanted (Bernie's nomination) so they're having a temper tantrum, and they can't see beyond themselves & how their tantrum can blow it for everyone.

Someone needs to tell them to grow up, and I hope Bernie can do that tonight.

Absolutely could not agree more!!!!!

For many young people, this is the first election they've invested in. They are idealistic and they are energetic, and maybe they are unaccustomed to being denied something they want really badly.

THAT'S WHY HE LOST

stop making it a race thing

is the problem. Many people here are seeing the racism with our own two eyes! Open yours!!

Or is your post?

"Get this straight, Bernie wasn't booed what he said about supporting Clinton was booed.". I guess you Sandernistas should get your meme straight about how you want to play your narrative. First you want to deny Sanders was booed by his own supporters in a thread that stated he should be able to control his own delegates. Then when some are complaining that it is mostly black speakers who are being booed then you acknowledge that he was also booed.

I didn't deny he was booed; I didn't see it and have no opinion and didn't state one.

But back to whatever else you are pissed off about, this is the exchange to take it out apparently for Sanders haters.

I am not one of the ones who are booing black civil rights icons and everyone else at a Democratic convention that is trying to start our nominee off so the Democrats can win this election. Nor am I enabling those same protesters who are doing that. I am trying to call out that behavior and those that seem to support it.

The statement was made no white people were booed.

Reports say BERNIE was booed. That's about correcting that statement, not all the laundry you brought. Ending this as useless.

Its hard to believe what you say but you do say your a democrat. Yet its amazing how left-wing Democrats and Progressives are racist now according to you and the select few prolific posters here. That is a FOX News Meme...they always claim see its the democrats that are racist. Unbelievable the crap on this thread. Has to make you wonder.

speaker who was speaking about his father and the civil rights movement. Particularly when their candidate, Sanders has been toting his civil rights activism 40 /50 years ago and using that to give street cred to garner up the AA vote. In a fantasy land Wouldn't that be Kind of like MLK activists booing Harriet Tubman. See how ridiculous it is and why the posters are calling the booers racists. Its hard to believe what you say also.

I like Elijah but I hardly call internal disagreements racism even when it gets heated or nasty. Thats the nature of competition and youre diminishing real racism when you make these absurd claims.

feel lessened by those Sanders supporters who are doing that. REAL RACISM ? Tell the PoC in the thread that the racism isn't "real". Notice how you saw my posting ID figured I was from WI so I wasn't a PoC so I obviously don't know racism when I see it. Racism, though, inherently comes from a lack of respect and those supporters didn't show one iota of respect for Cummings. Anybody could see that.

I made no assumptions about you. I just see a pattern of those that call themselves democrat in their name to often act the opposite. I used to organized UCAR and BAM direct actions. I've also had my entire family wiped out during a genocidal purge. And I've lived overseas where I was the only one of my kind. I sympathize with victims of racism. In this country it takes the form of the drug war worst and if you aren't trying to end the drug war on a dime then you are supporting racism in its worst form. Cummings wasn't being booed because he's Black. Asserting so is preposterous regardless of what color you are. I suppose you would be racist for booing Ben Carson? It's time to get to supporting Hillary and stop the bs online. Michelle Obama showed people how to do it. So did Bernie.

Sanders spent the whole year milking on his past glories 50 years ago as a civil rights activist, during the primary season to try and say he was better for the PoC community. His supporters have been tooting those same creds. Apparently the respect for 50 year old civil rights activism only goes to Sanders. I know Cummings wasn't being booed because he was black. But these supporters were booing during his civil rights speech. As i pointed out above in the post apparently only Sanders gets respect for civil rights activism and only when he's trying to get PoC votes. I find it hypocritical that his supporters can keep on giving him that street cred for his 50 year old activism yet not give the black civil rights activist the same amount of respect, when that man is giving a speech on civil rights. Apparently civil rights are not a progessive ideal for these booers. Secondly, your definition of racism is severly limited. By your standards institutional racism would not be included in your definition. Racism isn't only the violent, kkk driven kind that you are posting about. It is also the set of circumstances that denies the AA from getting a bank loan or denies the AA of an opportunity.

I used to pretend racism is something else as well if doing so better validated my own biases...

But when you're wondering what stalled the revolution- it's this total lack of self reflection.

I've long respected your opinion, though I've supported Hillary from the start.

What do you think is going on? Why is there so much discord (e.g., 'Lock her up!') when even Bernie is trying to calm things down?

I am scared sh--less about Trump and Putin, and how the FBI and CIA are working overtime to get to the core of Trump's ties to Russian financiers, the Russian government and the Russian mob.

Meanwhile, we have so-called Bernie supporters on the floor acting out.

Where is the perspective here? Don't they realize what is at stake in this election?

I have volunteered for Democrats in presidential campaigns for the last 20 years, after having worked as a paid strategist for 2 Congressional campaigns.

I have NEVER been as upset about a development as I have been in the last 48 hours - the prospect of a US president with financial and personal ties to the Russian government and financiers.

So tell me/us what the heck is going on with these Bernie delegates.

I'd hate to see them compromise their sacred principles.

their inner jerks.

Your straw man arguments were sophomoric enough but now you're attacking Black Lives Matter out of one side of your mouth and calling Progressives racist out of the other? Why are you trying so hard to splinter everyone?

idiots who were shouting down Elijah Cummings when he was talking about BLM. Those people are not "progressive".

Youre the last guy that should be pointing out deficiencies in comprehension. You are here to disrupt that is obvious. You just keep repeating the same divisive things over and over to seize upon anything that could be used to divide democrats. You do realize you are helping Trump right? We are trying to elect Hillary while you just moan and groan.

Congrats, you shattered my very low expectations with that post. Context is everything don't you think?

Thank God!

...who has common sense.

And hired only wealthy white heterosexual men for his trusted campaign staff.

She looks annoyed...

Rachel is brilliant and one of the best!

Seriously just spare me. Corporate owned, period.

and MORE today than ever!

truckers, port workers, software developers, heavy equipment manufactures, inventors, small export businesses, some guy in rural Alabama who finally gets a decent job at a foreign auto plant, and much more.

Long-term, helping the large number of people worldwide who have not shared in our, Britian's, Germany's wealth will help everyone.

Corporations who expand overseas should be taxed accordingly, and tax revenue used for education, healthcare, jobs, etc.

In the end, we won't get far trading among ourselves, becoming more Nationalistic and adopting America First in trade.

Is TPP perfect? No. But it is better than those who probability haven't read it or think we can artificially bring back jobs that just about country can do, believe. Fortunately, a big hunk of our jobs aren't impacted directly by worldwide trade, unless isolating ourselves hurts the economy in general. And, it's time we stop viewing poor countries as little more than scabs.

Even Hillary has walked it back on TPP...did you not know that? Pelosi criticized it all day in interviews today.

NAFTA ruined this country...at least for anyone working in manufacturing or managing them.

that happened long before NAFTA

I was borderline on it but their disrespect at the convention made my mind up. Anyone as clueless and disrespectful as those sign waving fanatics cant be right.

that'll show 'em.

Some are doing it out of anger. That's the same thing.

"They used words! So it's the same thing! They're both about politics! So it's the same thing!"

No, the relevant issue is people deciding based on *the candidate* or the issue, versus deciding because of supporters' behavior.

ANY person voting for Trump because they're angry--is pulling a 'that'll show 'em' stunt.

If you base a vote solely on emotion, whether it be anger at supporters or anger that your candidate didn't win--it's a 'that'll show 'em' decision. Not one thought out.

Done.

I agree *if* their reason was anger, your point is right on.

But I don't think it is. I do agree that *I* don't think their position - appreciating the harm of a trump presidency - is thought out.

In one case, someone was borderline, and then decides for (or against) a policy for reasons unrelated to a policy.

In the other case, someone claims to be in favor of progressive change, but then knowingly and willingly takes actions whose effect is to prevent such change from happening, and to actually cause conservative change -- all so that they can continue to complain about the lack of change the next time around.

So I agree they are not the same. One is a much more adult reaction than the other.

But still not quite right.

It's not "adult" to say you're for TPP because you don't like how some people acted.

And are equating the "progressive change" they want with Hillary's agenda, which they strongly disagree with.

That is not a fair statement.

In one case, someone is borderline. They have evaluated the positives and negatives, and they appear evenly balanced. Choosing either one side or the other is not a large move from their original starting point, even if such a move is not based on the substance of the policy. The poster is not saying that they were fully against TPP, and are now for it.

In the other case, I was not equating "progressive change" with Hillary's agenda at all (in that post). This entire subthread was in reference to the comparison of someone voting for Trump, because they are angry at Hillary. Voting for Trump will cause the Supreme Court to throw out progressive change for the next several decades, regardless of how much they like or dislike Hillary's agenda. Such people tried that before, in 2000, and it ended with Citizens United (among many other cases).

In other words, Bernie's biggest issue (corporate money in politics) was made significantly worse by the actions of exactly the type of people who would vote for Trump out of anger. If such Trump supporters succeed in getting what they want (a Trump victory), they will be complaining in 2024 or 2028 that a progressive president's legislation is being thrown out by Trump's appointees. They much prefer having an excuse to complain about the lack of progressive change, than actually causing progressive change -- so much so that they are willing to stymie progressive change at every turn to maintain that excuse.

So there really is no comparison.

any assumptions about you!

really stopped to analyze their actions before they acted? Do you support them?

Please, don't vote.

I've long said if I based my vote on some Hillary supporters' behavior, I wouldn't vote for her, but I don't, and plan to.

Before someone flags this as a flame, it's not.

It's criticizing that you should base your position on the issue on the issue, and criticize the supporters separately.

All I need to know.

Criticizing you for letting them determine your position on TPP is not saying anything about endorsing their behavior.

By my experience, if they said jump...I would duck. Sorry...I respond to button pushers with what they dont want to hear.



Back to C-Span.

But my statement on supporting the TPP may have been a knee-jerk not 100% truthful response. Im not a fool. Just in convention BOB overload.

who Sanders had to tell to stop?

As for the TPP, I dont think even one of the disrupter's could even explain why they are against it without saying I heard it from so and so IMO... Me....Im changeable and swayable on some issues. And I dont react well to button pushers. Changeable that is except for who I will vote for.

So, trump is a progressive if he says he is! Hitler was a progressive if someone says he is! Non one is allowed an opinion on the issue!

Ana Kasparian and that idiot Cenk Ugyer are the real deal, yes?

You are not him. Not even close. I will not say who I think you are.

Gets an hour of air time.

She was so much better when Olbermann was there. It seems she became scared of the corporation and didn't want to rock the boat.

That's quite a boat rocker right there.

We can at least be sure of that.

Million viewers. Compare that to NPRs 15 plus million listeners to each of their news shows.

But why let facts ruin your narrative?

Go Rachel!

Pretty obvious

When she was kissing Bernie's but she was a great progressive. I saw when she turned the corner for Hill. It was right after Trump was outed on abortion by CM. She was genuinely disappointed in his response to abortion rights. Which is a progressive issue. She has been doing stories in the past few years about Texas, Wendy Davis and how abortion rights have been slowly taken away from women, especially Texas. Her progressive issues might not include the TPP but that does not make her issues any less progressive.

Seems like she's just calling bullshit when she sees it to me (and others here).

Amazing feat of reporting.

Lol

especially after she crossed a picket line.

Before calling anyone a fake anything, one should examine what it means to follow the tenets advocated, ALL the tenets advocated. There is plenty in an überleft-leaning philosophy to inspire one towards anarchy wihout becoming a fake progressive, just as there are plenty of evil things in the holy books that - if followed - would make one very much a Christian by definition.

Calling someone a fake something is just a dodge that ignores an unsavory philosophical reality.

I hope she can talk some of these people down off the ledge.

they were just taking themselve off the bridge, but the way it going on the Convention floor they are going to take the Democratic Party down with them.....

I think that they somewhere got the notion that they are the only progressives and that progress in this country can only be achieved by one route. The truth is that progress for a society is like progress for a human being. Every successful person that I have ever known encountered many block walls that required that a change in strategy and a new route. Nearly always the path for a society or an individual is pretty clear even if it has to be altered from time to time. Right now, the clear path for progressives is to support Clinton and get her elected, along with a Congress full of Democrats. And, that path may not work. If it doesn't, another path will be clear. We just have to keep moving forward. There is a long road ahead.

They are very pissed and showing it. They feel the system is rigged, and the email dump shows it was rigged.
It's like taking your car to the shop to have the transmission repaired. You pay the bill, pick up the car, and it still doesn't shift. When you take it back, the manager says they fired the guy that 'fixed it' .
You're still out the cash and the car is still broken. Sorry about that.

Good on her. She knows this type of thing can bring about threats of violence and death against her. These are sick people she is calling out.

They shouted down the people trying to count votes.

Buncha white dudes and one young white woman, with and without suit jackets, mobbing the place where the vote was being counted, and banging on the glass doors and shouting, fists shaking in the air, and trying to be as bullying and intimidating as possible. There were maybe a dozen or more middle-aged and old people in there, trying to do that tedious scut work and I can only guess that ruckus on the other side of the glass must have been quite terrifying. What a disgrace that was!

It later turned out that this mob was wall-to-wall Congressional staffers - staff people for republi-CON representatives. This was a manufactured "protest." But the visuals couldn't be beat. Point made. Details later - maybe. And by the time we got details, it was too late. And nobody really gave a damn.

I know!












That's why her shilling is so disappointing.