I like Joe Biden the person more than any mainstream politician, based on what I know of him which really is very little.

His personality is just one of those that make you feel like you know him, etc.

And I would vote for him for President in a heartbeat.

Having said that, Joe is the go along to get along candidate as far as I am concerned.

I can see his long time in the Senate, that attitude, carrying over to agreeing to shit that I would not like.

maybe not, but that is my concern with Joe...he is still ten million times more qualified and better than any con

I have never forgiven him for his credit card votes and never will. If you have 29% interest rates, thank him. Google it if you don't believe me.

his position(s) on Iraq:

In 1990, Biden voted against the first Gulf War after Iraq under Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait.[65] In 1998, Biden expressed support for the use of force against Iraq, and urged a sustained effort to "dethrone" Saddam Hussein over the long haul.[66] In 2002, as Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he stated that Saddam Hussein was "a long term threat and a short term threat to our national security" and that United States has "no choice but to eliminate the threat".[67] He also said, "I think Saddam either has to be separated from his weapons or taken out of power."[68] Biden also supported a failed resolution authorizing military action in Iraq only after the exhaustion of diplomatic efforts,[69] Biden argued that Saddam Hussein possesses chemical and biological weapons and is seeking nuclear weapons;[70] he subsequently voted in favor of authorizing the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Biden has since said that he believes it was a mistake to support the Iraq War because it has been mismanaged by the Bush Administration. In 2005, Biden said, "We can call it quits and withdraw from Iraq (but) I think that would be a gigantic mistake, or we can set a deadline for pulling out, which I fear will only encourage our enemies to wait us out – equally a mistake."[71] wikipedia

He voted for it.

but I believe he did have the right idea on splitting Iraq into three separate states. We might not have the problems we have now if that were done.

better. He took the politically expedient road. He has no courage on issues and doing the right thing. Google his judgment on credit cards. he and hillary are bookends.

and I'm not a supporter. I'm just giving him credit for a good idea.

It's also one of the many reasons I won't vote for Clinton. If Biden got in the race it would be a tough decision for me. He's been through a lot lately with his son's death and I can't see how his heart would be in it. He would be my second choice, but I'd still stick with Sanders.

has tremendous name recognition. What that figure actually shows is the phenom that is Bernie Sanders. For Sanders who is still unknown to millions to be almost tied to Biden is amazing.

Most people can't even tell you who VP is. 45% of Americans think humans and dinosaurs lived together.

Although the creationist believe dinosaurs were the human's pets. . . ummmmmmm, 5 thousands years ago.

She was listed on all the ballots of the epoch as "Woman In Fur Bikini" -- but lost to "Man Who Piss On Fire," who is widely acknowledged to be the forefather of the Republican Party. This is true.

most people don't follow politics.

If they knew as much about the policy positions of all three as they did about Hillary's emails and Biden's gaffs, Bernie would be president and Hillary and Joe would take an early retirement to K Street.

The vanity that goes into believing everybody that disagrees with you is ill informed is astonishing.

they accept their corporate first economic and foreign policy in exchange for gay and abortion rights and some other correct positions on social issues.

If someone thinks either will side with average people against Wall Street, the military industrial complex, bankers, and their other big donors, they ARE ill-informed or delusional.

Perhaps the poor, the working class, and the lower middle class are making an informed decision that Joe Biden or Hillary Clinton have an infinitely better chance of winning and protecting the little that they have than choosing a long shot and possibly losing everything.


I am in blue California so my Medi Cal is secure. As a single male if I lived in a state that wasn't as progressive as California I would be scared to death the Republicans can gain control over the House, Senate, and presidency, and dismantle the safety net.


And the data supports my contention...Although Secretary Of State Clinton leads Bernie Sanders among all demographics Bernie does better among higher earners and those with higher educations, just the people who can afford to gamble.

The last time I even filed a tax return was for 2009 when I lost my home, my car, my business, and my investments in The Great Recession.

I depend on the government for my free health care. I am not willing to risk it..

And I am not willing to risk the health care of other poor adults in red states who will lose their Medicaid benefits if a Republican wins the presidency, there is no risk of a presidential veto, the Republicans turn the Medicaid program into a block grant, and Republican governors and legislatures pare the rolls.

I will go with the 50/50 or 60/40 proposition and not the 90/10 one.


I don't have the luxury of gambling with my life and the lives of others.

and the longer you accept the lesser of two evils, the less distance there will be them and the more evil.

Someone explaining to you their plight, and your response is that you don't give two shits about their situation and that they should care more about xxx than their own lives and the well being of their own family. By your comments I assume you're have sold every stick of worldly goods to make every effort to relocate or somehow save all of the lives that mean more to you than that of a person posting here. You piss on self preservation to assuage your desire for other people to embrace your personal projects.

and bare survival is at the cost of turning a blind eye to the epic crimes of those who are giving you just enough to stay alive?

DLCers are not just killing people in other countries, but attempting to privatize public education and letting the privatizers set the curriculum for K-12 public schools and starting on that path for higher ed.

We should not be satisfied with crumbs when our work and creativity have made this the richest country on earth.

But interestingly, if you dig into the guts of the poll, Im not convinced of that. Sanders does best amongst Democrats who identify as liberals (as you might expect), but he pulls is support from Joe, not Hillary.

then it would be a tie.

Who cares most about people like you? Hillary by a more than 2-1 margin over next.
Who has the biggest chance of beating the republicans? Hillary by almost 5-1 margin over next
Who best represents Democratic values? Hillary by more than 2-1 margin over next
Who would be strongest leader? Hillary by 3-1 margin over next

Is there a pattern?

why aren't they hers now?

It's quite a stretch to spin those Biden votes into good news for Clinton.

Obviously huge Obama fans. If he doesn't run, win, or if he drops out, she will most likely be the recipient of those supporters.

based on what you want to happen

There are many people who want a "3rd Obama term" and feel Biden represents that. I'll say that support will go 10% for Hillary and 5% to other.

Since we're just staring opinions!

that beats all the Kreskins' on this sight who are so sure of the future

makes you 1 in a 1000. Here's to you.

She'll collect them. Patience.

This ridiculously long campaign season works in Bernie's favor

vs the 43% lead she enjoys now (not counting the Biden votes)

Hope you have a Lot of patience.

He also had bigger name recognition than Bernie Sanders at that point.

imagine

Would vote for Biden in a heartbeat. Bernie next.

Hillary no way. Unless she becomes our nominee. Then I'll hold my nose and vote for her.

that Bernie will get once people have heard about him

In the most recent poll with just Clinton and Sanders:

Hillary Clinton - 75%
Bernie Sanders-15%


and the only recent poll with all three has:

Hillary Clinton 58%
Joe Biden 17%
Bernie Sanders-15%



http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-democratic-primary

The data suggests that the lion's share of Joe Biden's support will go to Hillary Clinton if and when he decides not to tin.

Biden is a household name

Many have yet to meet Bernie - but when they do

You said Biden is a household name, I'm telling you that a shockingly high percentage of Americans can't name who the VP is.

CNN -(with Biden)

HRC 58%
JB-17%
BS 15%

NBC (Sans Biden)

HRC- 75%
BS -15%

The data suggests that Biden voters moved to Clinton, en masse...PPP doesn't include Biden and you can see the same dynamic:



http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-democratic-primary

The polls are meaningless... This is all one big crap shoot, Bernie Sanders and Ben Carson have as much chance of being the next POTUS as Hillary Rodham Clinton and John Ellis Bush...

if bernie is no threat - leave him alone

No, I did not say the polls are meaningless. I'm saying if people are choosing based on name recognition, they're going to go from a name they recognize to a name they recognize.

They're not going to suddenly become familiar with Sanders if Biden is removed from the poll.

He owns the asterisk for his work in the purloined 00 election as much as his brother.

you can't turn the channel w/o seeing newcomer ted cruz but bernie is a nobody to them

but those days are ending

Oh. wait. never mind.

The worldview that corporate media provides is so entrenched and distorted that most of us no longer even notice just how warped it really is.

Not for any of his robust push for any public policy on the floor of the Senate. It was during TRMS shows that I noticed Bernie was very good at articulating public frustrations and pointing out inequalities in economics, but was never too clear on real life tangible policies to fix the problems. It always felt like a "let's all fall on our swords" fire and brimstone type speeches.

… people "heard" about Joe Biden, even though Biden ran for the presidency both in 1988 and 2008.

Now, how come THAT?

Look at his trend line. Your thoughts in this area should be what will happen to Bidens support once he is removed. That will be a huge deal. I first heard "Feel the Bern" right after all the stories about fifty shades of Bernie. I can't get that out of my mind when I hear "Feel the Bern." Really kind of funny. I think it is a great slogan, I just first heard it after reading du and all of the fifty shades of Bernie posts.

it is actually Hillary who fears the Biden

Your sigline!! I love it!

every time someone gets the reference.

with a pony head under it.

Bernie is gaining 3 to 4 percentage points every month while Hilary is losing 3 to 4 percentage.

He may only lose to her by 20-30 percent when the votes start getting counted.

7 months until the Iowa caucus. If he keeps gain at 3 percent per month he jumps up from 14 to 35 and if Hilary loses 3 percent per month she is at 36 percent. The contest is a dead heat not exactly losing by 20-30 percent.

When you look at the aggregate she has moved down .05% in thirty months.





http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-democratic-primary



At this rate Bernie will catch her by the year 2200


Never mind, she has actually moved up .01%

As if people knew who Bernie Sanders was 30 months ago or that he was running. Even though he has gained 14 points in 3 months.

For a candidate people knew was running for over 30 months vs one who people knew was running maybe three months ago. You want to talk about sloppy social science it will be foolish for any pollster to take polls that far back to predict an election. In every poll Bernie Sanders support is going up, but fact that people did not know he was that far in the past somehow makes your point valid is ridiculous.

Actually, he has gone down in some polls and up in others:


http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-democratic-primary



but always far, far , ... far behind....

Maybe that's why the oddsmakers have made Madame Secretary a 1-7 favorite to win the nomination and Bernie Sanders a 10-1 underdog to win the nomination:

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/us-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=482040

Well, that and the fact that 80% of Senate Democrats have endorsed Madame Secretary, she is outraising Bernie 5-1, she has staff in every state, and she is beating Senator Sanders by margins of 7-1, 8-1, or better among people of color who will likely account for one of every two Democratic primary and caucus voters.

Assuming a straight line trajectory for any politician...especially 3% every month.

He has stood behind Obama every step of the way. I love him for that. I think he knows how the US political system works and he has made many valuable contributions to our society as a player. Of course he's not perfect and he has made mistakes over the years but he seems honest and solid and very true to the working people and women and the people who are less fortunate in our society.

President? Not sure yet but I'm not sure about anyone yet. Just glad he's there. Just like all the dem candidates and contenders.

Family Values - Check.

Actual Legislative Record (that matters) - Check.

Experience in the Executive Branch - Check.

Brash and sincere - Check.

I haven't decided who I am voting in the primaries yet, but Biden makes a hell of a lot more sense than the not-a-Democrat.

He's from Delaware so that would make sense though.

No more Corporate Democrats!!!

That bankruptcy bill is screwing many Americans these days to give more favors back to banks.

Anita Hill?

No thanks.

It's good for the soul, don't ya know.

And if Bernie continues to do well - he (Biden) will jump into the race and will win overBernie's people. Similar to what RFK's plan with Gene McCarthy.

What's more likely is that he's awaiting the inevitable Hillary self-destruct and hoping that a panicked Bernie-phobic Democratic establishment will quickly choose him out of desperation. Frankly, I think O'Malley is betting on the same scenario and, providing he can gain some more traction on his own, has a better chance. O'Malley is an easier sell to Bernie supporters than Biden.

...

He is the sitting Vice President.

We all know who the candidates are, but we're political junkies. The rest of the country is barely paying attention.

We'll see what the polls look like in six or eight months.

Does his popularity among Democrats have anything to do with him serving a popular Democratic president?

So invisible and inconsequential for so very long is quite surprising

when you're not in the race.

Let us know when he becomes a candidate.

They can't help themselves.

Hopefully someday, they will see that everyone has a right to an opinion and attacking everything that doesn't make your cause number one, is not getting them anywhere.

Carry On!

It's gotten really tiresome but I suppose if a line is repeated long enough, there is hope that at least one person will believe it.

Biden won't run.

So as a Bernie supporter, I suppose I'm attacking someone or something or whatever, just for saying that.

But most are blind to that which they don't want to believe.
































~~~

Are you sure you're Liberals? Because Liberals generally like him...

Bernie is not that interested in a national poll now but instead is looking at Iowa and NH first. If he does well there that will launch his national exposure.

Biden is another centrist which is not what the country needs in 2016.

Unless Bernie is 'Surging!' Then they mean everything!

with respect to the narrative and the trends of the race. We don't have a national primary, remember.

(Edwards was first- DOH!!). If he runs, I am still for Bernie. I love Joe, he is probably one of the coolest politicians in my lifetime. I would love to party with him some time. But we don't need "cool" now- we need someone who is going to fight for us.

The stupidity on DU lately is incredible.

Anything to disparage Bernie I guess. Too bad there are so many corporate centrists on here these days.

DUers are going to be posting polls which look favorable to their preferred candidate(s).

There are Bernie supporters, O'Malley supporters, Hillary supporters etc.

You're just gonna have to deal.

If you say Biden has name recognition, a few posters here apparently have said that 40+% can't name the VP. Well, if they can't name the VP why in the hell would it be more likely they would know who Bernie Sanders is?

DERP.

Why did you post the following back in 2008, the most sexist and anti-Hillary stuff I have ever seen?

And how and why did you evolve so much?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6186699#6188982

I'm still trying to get past the Clintons racist remarks they used back then against Obama.

I might have used some of those same cartoons about Hillary myself because I was very angry.

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4702401

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/12/obama-camps-memo-on-clint_n_81205.html

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/7845.html

I haven't seen anything even 1/100 as bad as that from Bernie supporters and yet we're the big meanies on DU! And this poster's BFF on DU pulled the "female victimhood" stunt depicted in one of those toons twice in one week here.

Fucking hypocrites.

I doubt many would go to Bernie.

Though I have no idea how you posting this could be construed as "liberal punching."

But some here have built those crosses and DAMMIT, if you won't nail them to it, they'll do it themselves.

Plus he just lost a son to cancer. When and IF he gets in, it's worth talking about. Right now it's all just speculation.

Only a 2% difference, that probably fits within the margin of error.