2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBlack lives matter
No buts. I don't give a shit who your candidate is. That is all.
TM99
(8,352 posts)However, now what?
What do we do to engage all of our allies in the Democratic party to help us set goals, find tools, and enact policies that will confirm that black lives matter?
That is what I am ready to hear. The rage and fear has fueled the protest. That is excellent. Now let us harness it and work for some real change.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)...and the only way to insure that happens is to work TOGETHER....
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Try harder
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)And the only way to make that happen is to work TOGETHER.
You go ahead and keep on attacking people that want to help you and see how far you get...
We are ALL in this together, and the sooner we figure that out, the better....
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Saying "all lives matter" to this is minimizing it. I'm white and I am enraged by the shit that's been going on. We aren't part of this. All we can do is add our voices to the chorus tgat says "enough."
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)ONLY black people get profiled or harrassed?
That's bullshit.
ALL lives matter because ALL of us will benefit when the police are de-militarized, ALL of us will benefit when the playing field is leveled, ALL of us will benefit when institutionalized racism becomes a thing of the past. But ALL of us will have to be a part of the solution and you don't help that cause by ambushing people that are on your side....
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)And it is bullshit. On the part of the police.
As is the #NotAll..... derailing argument.
There are very few absolutes in the universe. Pretty much everyone out here knows that the answer to rhetorical questions about absolutist strawmen statements is that yes, there are exceptions.
But the reason we generally talk about rape of women by men is that the vast majority of rapes are men raping women, not women raping men, even though in some rare instances that does happen.
And the reason we talk about black people being killed by police is that the vast majority of people being killed by police are black.
And yes, if we stop the practices that lead to black people being killed by cops, white people will benefit too.
Little Star
(17,055 posts)Little Star
(17,055 posts)of young black men I might consider what you are selling.
Don't you get that taking that phrase and including white persons diminishes the meaning of their movement?
It does, and that's what they are objecting to. Not that all lives don't matter, but the fact is they have particular issues that white persons don't experience.
Can we not just support them without trying to co-op their movement?
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)And I'm getting really tired of people scrambling for a political advantage over this. It should and does transcend politics. Any candidate who thinks they're going to be able to make hay out of this instead of listening, acknowledging, and pledging support will be in for a rude awakening.
Little Star
(17,055 posts)2banon
(7,321 posts)That is all. I don't care who your candidate is or isn't.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)2banon
(7,321 posts)just a thought.
Little Star
(17,055 posts)And not in a good way amazing.
randys1
(16,286 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Done enough listening. Time to force others to listen. Will be told the whole time it is bad form. Been told that since I can remember no matter what the tactic. In your face time. If they don't like what they see, they never did in the first place. Republicans and centrists said the exact same things these people are saying about the occupy movement. Now its a different group employing the EXACT same tactics against BLM.
artislife
(9,497 posts)But after reading this site this morning, I am not sure my life matters.
I might have to get a semicolon tattoo to stop myself from topping myself due to the craziness that is washing over the posters.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)People who care about this will do the self examination necessary to learn.
Raine1967
(11,589 posts)I am saddened by what I am seeing in this forum.
You and I may disagree, but I learned a lot about two of the candidates after NRN this weekend.
One cared enough to stay, listen and talk after the protest, the other cancelled all meetings. That speaks volumes to me.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)It's about elevating this above the political fray.
randys1
(16,286 posts)even much about that, still catching up
Raine1967
(11,589 posts)Last edited Mon Jul 20, 2015, 01:02 PM - Edit history (1)
I know that I would probably not be the most objective person to describe what happened afterwards.
I believe this post would be a good place to start. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251456604
it's what happened afterwards that is where I cannot objectively speak.
Edited to say I would not as opposed to would (without the not) sorry about that.
randys1
(16,286 posts)Relaxes me, this stuff makes me a wreck
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)There's nothing in what happened to tell you if Bernie cancelled all meetings because he 'doesn't care'.
Quite simply, he might just not have felt prepared or ready, given how poorly what he did say went over with the protestors. He might have wanted time to meet with advisors before he gets back together with BLM folks. Time will tell.
Raine1967
(11,589 posts)or not.
I made it clear what my opinion is. I am not going to pontificate about what might have gone on in Mr. Sanders mind. His actions, just as O'Malley's actions spoke volumes to me in the aftermath of those protests.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Raine1967
(11,589 posts)I did not pontificate. I said:
I believe pontification happened here, when you said to me:
There's nothing in what happened to tell you if Bernie cancelled all meetings because he 'doesn't care'.
Quite simply, he might just not have felt prepared or ready, given how poorly what he did say went over with the protestors. He might have wanted time to meet with advisors before he gets back together with BLM folks. Time will tell.
Here is one of many meaning of pontificate. Mine was an opinion based on actions.
Also, I did not project. I do not suffer red herring arguments.
I said exactly what I said and I meant it.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)is limited to 'one cancelled meetings'. You then pronounced the reason for the cancellation, in a way that proclaimed that you had insight into Sanders' mind (and O'Malley's). 'One cared' and one did not.
Raine1967
(11,589 posts)meeting correct? http://www.buzzfeed.com/rubycramer/martin-omalleys-presidential-strategy-try-try-try-again#.kpDEgoAde
When White arrived for the meeting, Sanders wasn't there. It was just a few staffers. White was told, he said later, that Sanders had cancelled all meetings for the afternoon. (snip)
Later, Sanders angered members of the Arizona Democratic Party, when he canceled 40 minutes after his scheduled speaking slot, according to Alexis Tameron, the chair of the party. The reason given to Tameron: logistical issues, she said. That was it.
A Sanders spokesperson did not respond to a question about his schedule.
I don't care that you disagree with me, but please don't try to twist what my actual words are. That's not a really good debate tactic.
Bernie Sanders did not return to to crowd after his appearance at NRN to talk to people one on one and with TWiB and BRN.
If you can show me where he did, I would gladly be proven wrong. In the mean time, there is this OP: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251461527
I get you support Sanders. Thats all good, but I was not pleased with how he handled what happened this weekend. I was actually pretty neutral about Sanders. His temperament on stage and his actions afterwards really turned me off.
If you don't like my opinion, I am more than fine with that. Arguing/debating about something I never said or implied is a really bad debate tactic.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)He is the only candidate who has avoided the "all lives matter" response to "black lives matter." And his record and policy proposals on issues of race is superior to those of Clinton or O'Malley.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)libodem
(19,288 posts)What sucks is that in this country we still need to declare it.
Its abhorrent that Law Enforcement especially seems ignorant of this fact.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Law enforcement needs to be cleaned out with a firehose.
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)How about the lives of Latinos? Do they matter?
In my state both of them have a target on their backs.
If you ask about policy regarding the problem of
racism, don't, just don't start with the Federal
government. It has to start with locality, county,
and state, because that is where the real power
lies.
No matter what Obama or Holder tried, they
could not and cannot change, what is still
happening in MO. The first little change took
place in a state,SC, where at least the flag came down.
If your question was just rhetorical though, then I am sorry to
have answered it at all.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)And it doesn't minimize racism against Hispanics. It's not a competition.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Because people are still having the pointless back and forth about whose candidate fared better or who it was directed at.