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denem

(11,045 posts)
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 10:36 AM Feb 2012

Would Mitt Romney be America's first 'Non-Christian' President?

I don't care if Mormonism is canonical Christian or not, nor, quite frankly, what it is.

But, the word is out, from both sides, that Romney's faith is off-limits
(We don't want to encourage bigotry).

WTF !!!

Obama's religion was sliced and diced, stewed and screwed, pillared to the post and ~25% still believe he is a muslim.

So why, in God's name is Mitt Romney faith, a church in which he has held high office, be off the table?

Don't talk about religion?

If Obama was a muslim, or buddhist, or hindu, or scientologist, would TJAT be off the table?

But because Mitt is a Republican Mormon, don't go there. It's bigotry.

If you want bigotry, try Prop. 8.

BTW. Yes I know Thomas Jefferson was Deist, not a canonical Christian, so the answer is no.

36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Would Mitt Romney be America's first 'Non-Christian' President? (Original Post) denem Feb 2012 OP
Right - Washington and Jefferson were Deists underpants Feb 2012 #1
No, that designation would go to William Howard Taft. no_hypocrisy Feb 2012 #2
As was John Adams rurallib Feb 2012 #14
And Thomas Paine. ncteechur Feb 2012 #36
His being a cult member is something I wouldn't bring up. Mainly because I think all religions brewens Feb 2012 #3
I don't think I said anything about cults. denem Feb 2012 #5
I was refering to the "Christian" tendency to view Mormans as a cult. Something they should be brewens Feb 2012 #25
I don't think a person's religion should be off the table davidpdx Feb 2012 #4
The GOP leadership doesn't want to talk about his Religion. JoePhilly Feb 2012 #6
I thought that we already had a non-Christian President? Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2012 #7
This message was self-deleted by its author Tesha Feb 2012 #8
Regardless of his religion Romney is a vulture capitalist with think Feb 2012 #9
No, I think Thomas Jefferson was. Jackpine Radical Feb 2012 #10
I'm waiting for a good, solid, patriotic Satanist Boombaby Feb 2012 #11
+1 000 000 000 kestrel91316 Feb 2012 #20
The only problem I have with Romney being a Mormon Boombaby Feb 2012 #26
I thought it would be the xtra m towards the end! whistler162 Feb 2012 #27
I'm gonna blather about his religion all day long.... ingac70 Feb 2012 #12
There is no religious test for office in the U.S. rusty fender Feb 2012 #13
I don't think we've EVER had a "Chirstian" president... RevStPatrick Feb 2012 #15
carter... madrchsod Feb 2012 #17
i just reread the history of the mormon church in illinois madrchsod Feb 2012 #16
I have a fundie friend who is VERY concerned about Mittens' kestrel91316 Feb 2012 #21
where in the bible does it say jesus visited the "Americas" or that mormonism even exists? hmm nt msongs Feb 2012 #18
Where in the Book of Mormon does it say that he didn't? dmallind Feb 2012 #34
Even if Obama had 2 black parents who spent their whole lives attending kestrel91316 Feb 2012 #19
It's off the table because Rethugs don't want to lose Evangelical votes. CanonRay Feb 2012 #22
So; Romney is a blue blooded Mormon........ wandy Feb 2012 #23
Wonder how a Scientologist libodem Feb 2012 #24
I think pretty much yes. downwardly_mobile Feb 2012 #28
"Being of one substance with the Father", I understand is the sticking point. denem Feb 2012 #29
Free trivia nugget - the phrase "one iota" meaning a tiny amount arose here dmallind Feb 2012 #35
I'm not someone who underestimates the GOP ever, but I still insist WE don't NEED to go here. Bombtrack Feb 2012 #30
No, because Mitt Romney is a Christian. Drunken Irishman Feb 2012 #31
No. But he would take the oath with his hand on top of "The Book of Mormon". MatthewStLouis Feb 2012 #32
In point of fact... Showrunner Feb 2012 #33

underpants

(183,046 posts)
1. Right - Washington and Jefferson were Deists
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 10:45 AM
Feb 2012

as were most of the founding fathers. YEs technically Christian but more a product of their times having seen what church involvement at the top of government leadership (England, Spain, etc.) can lead to.

brewens

(13,671 posts)
3. His being a cult member is something I wouldn't bring up. Mainly because I think all religions
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 10:54 AM
Feb 2012

are cults. It doesn't make any difference to me that your cult eventually grew large enough to be considered a main stream religion. They all started out as cults.

At one time there were far fewer Christians than there are Mormons today.

 

denem

(11,045 posts)
5. I don't think I said anything about cults.
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 10:59 AM
Feb 2012

What I said was acres of commentary were devoted of Obama's religion, but this time it's don't go there.

brewens

(13,671 posts)
25. I was refering to the "Christian" tendency to view Mormans as a cult. Something they should be
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 05:36 PM
Feb 2012

careful about.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
4. I don't think a person's religion should be off the table
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 10:55 AM
Feb 2012

It certainly wasn't for Kennedy nor Obama. Nixon was a Quaker. The Mormon Church backed Prop 8, therefore it is fair game to ask Romney if he too backed Prop 8.

My personal opinion is I do not like Mormons, nor snotty rich people, so he has three strikes against him in my book.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
6. The GOP leadership doesn't want to talk about his Religion.
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:02 AM
Feb 2012

The GOP establishment knows that its fundie base thinks that THEY are the only REAL Christians.

Catholics barely qualify, and Mormonism is a cult.

But the GOP leadership does its best to stick to the word "Christian" as if all flavors were the same, so that all of the flavors vote as a single block.

The best way to deal with this is to keep bringing up how the GOP likes to claim that Obama is a scary Muslim and not a Christian .... and ask them to take a position on that ... and then pivot to Mitt's religion. Worst case you take away the "Obama isn't a Christian" attacks ... best case, the fundies get discouraged because there are 2 non-Christians runniing and they stay home.

Response to denem (Original post)

 

Boombaby

(139 posts)
11. I'm waiting for a good, solid, patriotic Satanist
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:48 AM
Feb 2012

Now that's a campaign I could really pour my soul into!

ingac70

(7,947 posts)
12. I'm gonna blather about his religion all day long....
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 12:17 PM
Feb 2012

tons of Republican voting evangelicals 'round here in TN, so I am going to sing a song about Mormonism.

 

rusty fender

(3,428 posts)
13. There is no religious test for office in the U.S.
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 12:55 PM
Feb 2012

It's in the Constitution. Mitt's religion should be off-limits, and everyone on our side should re-double the effort to keep it off-limits, esp. because of how vicious the right was in demonizing Obama's supposed Muslimism. The real Constitutionalists, that would be us, need to be consistent about this religious test mania. Whenever asked about whether or not we would vote for or against someone because of his or her religion, we should always say: There is no religious test for public office in the U.S.

 

RevStPatrick

(2,208 posts)
15. I don't think we've EVER had a "Chirstian" president...
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 01:04 PM
Feb 2012

...have we?

Did nobody else notice that typo in OP title?
Sorry... I come from a family of editors.

madrchsod

(58,162 posts)
17. carter...
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 01:23 PM
Feb 2012

he was still teaching sunday school a few years ago. he is one of the few who actually practices what he believes in.

madrchsod

(58,162 posts)
16. i just reread the history of the mormon church in illinois
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 01:21 PM
Feb 2012

i never fully realized how much the baptists hated the mormon church in 1800`s illinois. i wonder if the present day baptists still hate or dislike the mormon church.

i don`t think this will come to the level of the kennedy problem but who knows what the fundamentalist baptists will do...

 

kestrel91316

(51,666 posts)
21. I have a fundie friend who is VERY concerned about Mittens'
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 02:08 PM
Feb 2012

religious beliefs.

I gleefully encourage his concern.

dmallind

(10,437 posts)
34. Where in the Book of Mormon does it say that he didn't?
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 05:39 PM
Feb 2012

And why should one be more trustworthy than the other? If we accept the basic idea of JC's existence and nature, surely it would be impossible to limit what he could and could not do, and all we have are competing claims about what he chose to do, both using his imprimatur as provenance.

 

kestrel91316

(51,666 posts)
19. Even if Obama had 2 black parents who spent their whole lives attending
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 02:05 PM
Feb 2012

Ebenezer Baptist itself, and he did too, the RW would fault his religion.

Because we all know it's REALLY just code for him being one of them uppity n----rs.

wandy

(3,539 posts)
23. So; Romney is a blue blooded Mormon........
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 04:57 PM
Feb 2012

Morman isn't the problem.
Romney is an 'Upper Crust' ichet who has no idea of the real world. That is the problem.
I say it again. Romney has less in common with you or I than we have with ducks!

 

downwardly_mobile

(137 posts)
28. I think pretty much yes.
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 07:25 PM
Feb 2012

As to Jefferson, he may have been a Deist, but I'm sure he was baptized and raised protestant (Anglican, I'm guessing) and I don't think he ever formally renounced his Christianity.

Mormonism is not just a form or sect or denomination of Christianity: it's a whole new religion based on a Christian groundwork. For just one thing, they reject the Trinity and they reject the Nicene Creed -

That's a pretty fundamental, bedrock start. That's even before all the Jesus-came-to-America, and or "becoming Gods" thing and or Jesus and Satan being brothers.


--------

Here's the Nicene Creed as a reminder. Pretty much everyone in Christianity, Catholic and Protestant, buys it:

I believe in one God the Father Almighty,
Maker of heaven and earth,
And of all things visible and invisible:
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God,
Begotten of his Father before all worlds,
God of God, Light of Light,
Very God of very God,
Begotten, not made,
Being of one substance with the Father,
By whom all things were made;
Who for us men, and for our salvation came down from heaven,
And was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary,
And was made man,
And was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate.
He suffered and was buried,
And the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures,
And ascended into heaven,
And sitteth on the right hand of the Father.
And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead:
Whose kingdom shall have no end.
And I believe in the Holy Ghost,
The Lord and giver of life,
Who proceedeth from the Father and the Son,
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified,
Who spake by the Prophets.
And I believe one Catholick and Apostolick Church.
I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins.
And I look for the Resurrection of the dead,
And the life of the world to come.

 

denem

(11,045 posts)
29. "Being of one substance with the Father", I understand is the sticking point.
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 08:33 PM
Feb 2012

The Evangelical maxim "Jesus is Lord" makes no sense without that.

dmallind

(10,437 posts)
35. Free trivia nugget - the phrase "one iota" meaning a tiny amount arose here
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 05:41 PM
Feb 2012

The early church disputes were over whether Jesus had the same or only similar substance to his Dad. "Homoousios" and "homoiousios" in Greek. The letter i - iota in Greek - being the small difference with a big impact.

Bombtrack

(9,523 posts)
30. I'm not someone who underestimates the GOP ever, but I still insist WE don't NEED to go here.
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:27 PM
Feb 2012

The facts are penetrating the ether. It'll take care of itself.

MatthewStLouis

(904 posts)
32. No. But he would take the oath with his hand on top of "The Book of Mormon".
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 12:11 AM
Feb 2012

I say, we need to talk about his religion. The right never takes religion off the table. Not only do they like to talk religion, they have been lying about President Obama's faith for years.

I want the red meat, right wing, Southern Baptist voters and other denominations to know about Mitt and his Mormonism. These are the people who actually didn't vote for Jack Kennedy because he was a Catholic. What would they think about a Mormon? How could people who demonize Catholics and even other protestant denominations, vote for a Mormon over an evangelical protestant?

 

Showrunner

(23 posts)
33. In point of fact...
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 09:30 AM
Feb 2012

Mitt the Magnanimous...would be the nation's first Android President. Hurry, Hurry, Hurry...This 3-Ringer Ain't Done Yet! Thoughts at 3 A.M. http://thoughtsatthreeam.blogspot.com/?spref=tw

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