And, yes, I 'borrowed' that line from Judge Judy, because it is soooo appropriate.

The hateful, nasty things Ms Hunter wrote about Elizabeth Edwards are inexcusable. There was ZERO reason for her to do this, except to try to rationalize her and his behavior - mostly hers.

We can never know what went on in the Edward's household, nor should we. I do strongly suspect that the breakdown of this 'relationship' was due to what she wrote about Elizabeth, in the book. To his credit, John has never, publically, spoken a bad word about his wife and he placed the blame for his behavior exactly where it belongs - on himself.

the things she wrote in the book about Elizabeth were vile . It's just concerning that she seems to be getting ALL the rap while Ol' John gets off scot free.

HE is a pig for even participating in this relationship! It takes two... he deserves just as much public scorn!

I wouldn't have the contempt for her, had she not gone out of her way to hurt Elisabeth's kids. No matter how horrible Elisabeth may have been to her (understandably, IMO, even though I don't have Elisabeth on any pedestal just because of her death from cancer), I just think she could have had some restraint.

Before this, I would have given John nearly all my contempt. Still, I don't hold the woman "blameless" that knowingly begin relationship with married men (or conversely men who do so with a married woman), especially when children are in the mix. However, it was John who was committing adultery, not her in this case. But, geebus, knowing the wife had terminal cancer, two young kids--how can she be held blameless?

blameless, but the contempt and out right hatred for her confuses me. He is responsible for this mess as well. Just wondering why the media isn't all over his ass too.

She's the female. We had a ton of that very thing on DU. THe "other woman" always gets the lion's share of the scorn and derision and never mind that it is HE who broke his marriage vows and did the lying and the cheating. She just had a relationship with a man who she liked or loved or for whatever reason enjoyed being in a relationship with him. Happens every day, and it's usually how second marriages begin. THey've been together for years through more tough and public shit than any of us would ever have to be dragged through.

Had he met her and decided he was interested in a relationship with her and told his wife and family instead of cheating and lying and covering it up nobody should give a rat's ass. People grow unhappy in their marriage find happiness with someone else every day, and there's nothing at all wrong with that if they are honest leave the old relationship before starting the new one. It is COMPLETELY John's fault for the cheating, lying and covering up. HE was the one in a marriage. HE was the one running for office and desired to keep his other relationship hidden. That wasn't anything she did, and she likely didn't WANT to. What woman wants to get into a serious relationship with a man but has to hide it and put up with him still being with his wife and sleeping in their bed and probably having sex to boot so he can have his cake and eat it too? No one that gets involved with a married person whether male or female wants to have to share the person and always take second place and never be able to publicly acknowledge their relationship. When people get involved in a serious relationship they want and EXPECT it to go somewhere and not have to hang in limbo as the "other woman" or "other man" getting the perpetual short end of the stick while their new partner is getting to have the best of both worlds.

Reille had every right to sling mud back at what Elizabeth slung at her and publicly, too. Like most women, instead of putting the blame where it belongs on their lying, cheating mate, they heap it all on that "evil other woman". I give her credit for having not done so while Elizabeth was still alive and struggling with her illness and the humiliation John heaped on her staying silent until after her passing where she could no longer be hurt by anything she chose to say. I feel sorry for her. LIke so many many millions of women before her she made the bad choice to get involved with a lying, cheating married man who strung her along for who knows how long because he was so selfish and greedy he wanted the best of both worlds. And that relationship didn't continue for so long without him constantly stringing her along with lies and promises like every cheating, lying married man does when he's so selfish he wants both the wife and the lover.

I'm particularly pissed at whoever it was in that OP discussion (Whoopie Goldberg?) that heaped all the blame for what the relationship did to his candidacy and what it could have done to the nation at HER feet. That was ALL John's fault. HE was the one running for office, and HE was the one cheating on his wife with another woman, and HE wanted it kept hidden to continue his political plans. Yet here again is a woman flinging all the blame at the "evil other woman" when it is obvious where it belongs - on HIM.

i dont go with all that you say. i feel we each have a personal responsibility. and to be a part of hurting people that has done nothing to you, for me, is wrong. it really is that simple.

BUT... i did said in a thread on GD, that whoopi going after the woman has me concerned. whoopi tends to give the mad the out, which is bullshit. polenski. and then it happened one other time, i cannot remember

It's the cheating, lying selfish spouse. ALL of it. The other woman/other man just got into a relationship with someone that they care deeply for and are just as much a victim of the cheating, lying selfish shit as the cheated on spouse. You can't have a long term relationship with two different people at the same time without treating them BOTH like shit in different ways. Guaranteed that Edwards continually fed Reille the standard lines about how horrible his wife was and how much he wanted to get out of his marriage and start a new and thoroughly joyful life with her... but it can't be until, blah, blah, blah... and on it goes for as long as it can be strung out for. Nobody WASTES years of their life in a half relationship with someone that can't even be publically acknowledged, where holidays can't be spent together, where the one you love is still going to their spouse's bed regularly because they "have to keep up the appearance of normalcy" so they don't get suspicious, etc., etc., etc. and that is in perpetual limbo. Putting blame on the other woman/other man is just wrong when they're being victimized and abused just as much as the cheated on spouse.

Why in the world is the other woman/other man supposed to be even more sympathetic to the spouse than the asshole that's married to them and wanting to selfishly carry on two separate relationships and when they're always constantly being told that the spouse is a horrible person that nobody should have to suffer being stuck with? The other woman/other man always is given a picture of a miserable person keeping the poor selfish, lying cheater down, and oh, they are such a good and generous person that they're willing to suffer for awhile longer because they can't leave them and REALLY start on the new joyful life with the other woman/other man until after, blah, blah, blah (ie, the kids are older, the better job comes through, the spouse's illness goes away, the housing market gets better, the dog dies, it pours rain in the desert ... they have a thousand and one excuses for the perpetual stringing along). Meanwhile, they have absolutely no intention whatsoever of ever actually getting out of their marriage - they WANT the marriage, but they ALSO want the other relationship. They just don't want to have to chose one side of the fence or the other and are so selfish as to keep up this sick charade to get the best of both worlds for THEM, but it's the worst kind of world for BOTH the spouse and the other woman/other man - and they know it and don't give a shit.

What sets my teeth on edge is that whenever it is a situation of a woman cheating and there being a "other man" rather than an "other woman" it's STILL the woman that gets all the blame and sympathy for that poor husband AND that poor "other man" being strung along by that nasty evil cheating lying selfish female wanting the best of both worlds at their expense. And we know what words would be used to label her rather than "woman". When the cheating liar is a man he's referred to as a man, but when the cheating liar is a woman she's referred to as that bitch, whore, slut, cunt, etc. Interesting, that.

it is probably coming from a more empathetic position than i and it was good for me to read it, though i really do not see it in this manner.

any of these situations, it is hard to comment on. the reality, we do not know what is going on in their rl and marriage. we dont know that the other mate is saying, you know, ... dont really like you all that much and gonna stay married but no sex. for me that sets up a whole dynamic. i do not know what is going on in the marriage or relationships.

these situations are always hard.

then as you say, there is the virgin/whore thing going on. married woman good, other woman evil. not really into validating that. or the woman pitted against woman. or the catfight. we have so many insulting roles for women while the man stands aside with a smile.

personally, i take it away from gender. as many women are cheating as men. i have a whole honesty/principle thing. but, this is mine to live because as i say, i do not know what is truly happening in others lives. for me, tell me the truth and go on. you lie, it is ALL on you and i really dont give a shit about the reasons. the person cheating with the a married person is in essence, participating in the lie. the only person i would see as the victim is the one that is unaware, living an illusion. but, that would be my own personal horror. i can handle a cheat. i cannot handle an illusion being created for me to live.

also, the whole power of love thing.... meh. i have a hard time getting that. to me, it is clear that if a man is cheating on the wife, feeding me garbage, it is clear he is a man that is not respectful and why the fuck would i want to be involved. for me, he is showing all the signs of a man that is so not worth my time. so, it is very hard for me to see a woman falling into a trap of lies, in unaware, and being the victim.

are involved. I agree the cheating married spouse is deserving of all the scorn heaped on them, but sorry, unless the partner in the affair was honestly and totally unaware that they were married with kids, they bear some responsibility. And surely, just being an ADULT and (hopefully) a compassionate human being, I would think she could have avoided piling on-- in repeated interviews-- the ugly accusations about Elisabeth, now dead and unable to defend herself-- and knowing full well the young children would hear all this.

I agree that whoopi was off base blaming her for Edward's political misdeeds, but I'm not about to let RH off the hook. I think she is far from blameless in the episode.

However, I will say that it is more reflexive to hold contempt for her in doing this-- in disregard of the children involved-- than it might be for a male helped to break up the marriage of a woman with kids. Perhaps that represents some long-standing expectations that women "should" be concerned for those affected, even if men are not. To that I cop to some level of gender-based inequity in perception and expectations--those that tend to give men a very unwarranted pass.

God, I wished you posted more!!! You are spot on!

I don't want anyone to get me wrong, Reille has to take some of this blame. The book and the crappy things she did and said doesn't absolve her in my opinion. But dammit, I feel the need to say something about John. What a coward and what disgusting shit he is! This whole media thing has pissed me off, especially the view. The man is a pig, he has just as much in this as Reille.

without a scrap of empathy for anyone else in the world. I fear for her kid, there are some large therapy bills coming.

At least Edwards has largely kept his mouth shut about all this stuff, it's been his only redeeming quality.

I remember how incensed we were when the Dixie Chicks were intimidated and coerced because it wasn't the right attitude to have.

I don't know if she's telling the truth about Elizabeth or not. And honestly I don't care, I'm tired of the idea that dying of cancer makes one a saint, though. Just like being the President at a time of national upheaval didn't make Bush a great leader.

Hang in there, Rielle, don't be ashamed of not being PC in your book unless it's provably untrue.

that isnt a badge of honor as far as i am concerned. there are a lot of people that didnt do a damn thing to her, that she is hurting because of her self centeredness. i dont think anymore of john. they are both pos, from my pov.

that is nothing like the dixie chicks making a political statement.

Somehow everyone is starting from the standpoint that she's lying, perhaps she's not.

If she's not, then I guess I'm saying I don't embrace the idea of not speaking the truth of the dead. I just don't, alive or dead, the truth is the truth. So I understand there's some room for question, hence my "ifs", but to just decide you don't like the potential truth and therefore are going to judge the speaker, just doesn't seem right.

dont care. every piece in the book could be true. i still think it takes a nasty person to not only write the book, but so many of the choices she has made over the time. i really have not been following this. i read the titles and an article here and there on du. but, imo, she is not a nice woman. i dont respect her. i dont think much of her at all.

i do believe that ultimately, the nasty is on john. it was his marriage, it is his kids.

i dont think either are terrific people.

and i saw things about elizabeth when she was on the board that had me raising an eyebrow. so not like it is all about elizabeth.

what turned me off the most was the two were willing to continue with the presidency when we really needed a dem knowing this was out there and willing to risk it all. that is really what should matter to us all. not this personal stuff.

in a child's bed (complete with safety rail) surrounded by toys. Kudos to the photographer who thought that one up.

That's just a sick picture. The phtographer, her, the editor. Looks like "soft por" to me...

The woman hasn'tt a shred o decency.

That does NOT mean I think johnedwards has any either.

narrow-mindedness regarding how a woman should act.

done purposely, btw, that tells a story.

and it really is not pretty.

again, she really seems to not do a fantastic job making choices. she allowed this story to be told thru a picture.

I'm guessing I missed some pictures somewhere?

desperate for her 15 minutes

I don't believe that Elizabeth was a saint or that dying of cancer makes you a saint.

I find it incredibly hurtful for John to have an affair at that very time in her life when she needed support. He is a PIG and a liar. I mean, really to deny your child even? Unforgivable in my book.

Reille deserves the scorn but I think John deserves it more. He is a pig!

not Reille's. She never entered into an agreement with Elizabeth and owed her nothing.

no one who loves someone writes what i understand she wrote about him . . . or his wife. you don't publicly trash someone you love.

ellen fl

Or you like to live in a dream land.

and, it was not her place to say anything about elizabeth. she was still the mother of his children and was not divorced from him.

ellen fl

Geez, I can't think of the last person I heard actually say a nice thing about their spouse if they have been married more than 3 years.

You seem to be expecting some level of perfect behavior that doesn't really exist in normal life. Why should she be expected to be exemplary?

that is so sad.

let me tell you then, i am very lucky that i found a man to live with that i actually like and his little "to do's" bother me... not.

easiest thing in the world for me, this marriage gig. i do not know what the fuss is about.

than we like to talk about.

i am a bit of an isolationist, so i don't have a lot of examples around me. but, the three couples i know well, ya, they like being with each other long term. married longer than i. talk well about each other.

actually, i find that with the people i know casually, too.

maybe the people i like to be around are people that are happy in life. i don't know. maybe it is the environment i am in.

my parents were good in their relationship. not as good as hubby and i. my husbands parents are as good and they are 50 yrs. we have one divorce in my family, other brother not married. hubby siblings.... they seem ok, but i don't know them well enough, so i do not know.

that being said. divorce first marriage is 41%, not the 50% or so. and that is brought up cause 2nd and 3rd marriages really raise the odds of divorce. makes sense.

i recently read a study that educated and waiting later to get married was at 15% divorce and has gone down to 11.4%.

it is the very young that marry that raises divorce rate.

i cant tell you what the universal norm is. i can only speak from personal experience.

hubby and i periodically touch on how easy marriage is. but, we were older when we got married. did a lot of our stuff before marrying. knew what we wanted and didnt want and respect each others boundaries.

and we do not like fighting. we like a peaceful environment. it works for us.

Though it may be, iirc, that the 3rd divorce rate is very low.

Various studies on US rate of divorce show significant differences when a comparison is made in 1st, 2nd and 3rd marriage breakups in America. The marriage breakup rate in America for first marriage is 41% to 50%; the rate after second marriage is from 60% to 67% and the rate in America for 3rd marriage are from 73% to 74%. Reports also say that couples with children have a slightly lower rate of breakup as compared to couples without children. This is due to the fact that being childless is one of the prime causes behind divorce in America. Also, the children of divorced parents are prone to divorcing 4 times more than the children of couples who are not divorced.

http://www.divorcestatistics.info/divorce-statistics-and-divorce-rate-in-the-usa.html

Interesting, I don't usually do that. My bad.

Even so 50% is no small amount, and many stay married but don't care about each other anymore. So I still think you're in an ideal that doesn't exist for most.

not like it is all grand, by far, lol.

so why is she bad-mouthing him in her new book? not that he doesn't deserve it, but to put it in print while saying how much she loves him?

ellen fl

then I don't see how you find it unusual for someone who didn't love enough to get married.

Let me re-phrase, and say "even though two loved enough to marry, then I don't see how you find it unusual between two people who didn't..."

It seems you're capable of being obtuse all by yourself, carry on.

you replied to my post with an argument that had nothing to do with what i posted and I'M obtuse?

ellen fl

All of us have had differing opinions on this subject and we have allowed ourselves to discuss it without being rude.

Please, knock it off. Thank you.

While I agree that it's ridiculous that people place more blame on the other woman/man and not the jerk who broke the promise to stay faithful, she reportedly said some really nasty things about Elizabeth (I admit I haven't really been paying too much attention to this scandal), my question is,wouldn't all these nasty stories she's telling have to have originated with John? I think it's common in situations like this for the married spouse to talk negatively about the other spouse and for the other woman/man to accept those negative stories as truth. My guess is most of that ugliness came directly from John's mouth.I also doubt that she was his first affair. All that being said,they certainly seem to deserve each other,both seem to be monumental assholes.

an alternative perspective.

they will then turn around and tell the wife that they really love her, that the mistress is a mistake and he doesn't love her, that he's just weak and can't resist, that it's really love that should matter and not meaningless sex, etc etc etc

Edwards betrayed his wife and set in motion everything that happened afterward--including Hunter's book. The fact that Elizabeth's children may have to read/hear the vicious things said about their mother is, I believe, where most of the animosity toward Hunter is coming from.

i wouldn't say much about Rielle if she had not gone public. but going out like this she is opening herself up for criticism.

fuck them both.

in my long held opinion, it is the MAN/HUSBAND/FATHER who is MOST WRONG and LIABLE in most of these matters.
The women are victimized, to some extent.

I HATE that society usually blames the 'mistress.' It makes NO SENSE to me.

This approach lends credence, imo, to some societies' customs to force females to dress and act so as to HIDE themselves away from the marauding males. Disgusts me.

End rant.

but takes up with him anyway, carries just as much blame as the object of her ardor. imho

ellen fl

i can not get beyond my own personal boundaries on this one.

but rather to the atmosphere that makes this all (interview on TV/book etc) possible. WTFC? Who the fuck cares?

Never underestimate the desire to "cash in " in our dumbed down culture.I'm surprised her and Edwards didn't pitch a reality show.

but she wrote a damn book about it.

She deserves the scorn and she seems so clueless and dimwitted

upholding that commitment, I cannot lie--I find Ms. Hunter to be an appalling person.

This does not mean I would label her a "homewrecker," "slut," "whore," etc. But I don't consider someone who had a baby to have accomplished anything, let alone the kind of "thing" that validates shameless attention-seeking, or truly desperate attempts to garner as much publicity for herself as possible.

Edwards is really not my favorite Democrat, and I can't approve of his choices either.

Also for the record, it is, by far, a tame scandal compared to the bulk of the crap we've seen politicians engage in this last decade. An affair is not a war crime.

her interviews that have made her the target. At least JE is keeping his mouth shut.

they are both low class whores and liars.

i am so glad i did not support Edwards. he's a jerk.

lol



you know, the whole getting along thing.

glad to see your post

You crack me up Scout!