Bernie Sanders
Related: About this forumDid I See On Rachel That Hillary Is Taking Out Ads On Bernie In The Remaining States?....
I thought that she put Bernie behind her and was concentrating on Trump.
Bernie can still win this thing and poses a threat to her. Otherwise - why would she do this?
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Hillaryites are worried. I say leave them alone in their misery.
Bernie's best states are coming up, and they know it.
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)By design
Response to ChairmanAgnostic (Reply #2)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)Actually, I am slouching. So, I slouch corrected.
Response to ChairmanAgnostic (Reply #5)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
senz
(11,945 posts)Response to senz (Reply #16)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
senz
(11,945 posts)I picked up an abstract, intellectual sense of the phenomenon from literature, film, and documentaries about mass insanity, e.g., anything on Nazi Germany, Salem witchcraft trials, Shirley Jackson's fictional "The Lottery," U.S. racial violence like the KKK, 1960s school integration, various genocides including what happens during the insanity of war, and similar phenomena, including smaller scale group violence.
Like you, I encountered enmity from others for openly protesting Bush's run up to the Iraqi Invasion, at work and at church, where a self-styled leader shot me down with something like, "how dare you question our government?" Some of those enmities were for good; they never lifted (I think they were Republicans).
The eeriest manifestation of this phenomenon that I've witnessed was in the 1980s on the Phil Donahue show just after Reagan's bogus, uncalled-for invasion of Grenada. Donahue was interviewing a small group who had something to do with it (so long ago I forget what) and when he began questioning the legitimacy of the invasion, the entire audience began hissing, and you could see the color drain from his face as he glanced across the audience and backed off the line of questioning. Within a matter of minutes, he had been completely silenced. Whatever the mood was in that TV studio, it even scared me in my living room. The audience was of one mind, and anyone who disagreed would surely be a target.
You mention Jungian archetypes, the zeitgeist, etc. -- I concur, these entities of human consciousness are quite real. Another one that relates closely to all of this is René Girard's theory of mimetic desire, mimetic rivalry, and the scapegoat mechanism. I find Girard a difficult read, but what I've grasped of his work has, over time, resonated as true. I value him so highly that his recent death, at a ripe old age, saddened me because I wish he could have kept going with his amazingly intuitive, but learned and observant, discoveries. He captures a deep, almost instinctual aspect of humanity -- a, imo, aspect that is neither very nice nor very smart -- that explains so much of what looks like little more than group-level dysfunction.
Yes, the Clintons, for all their "smarts" do not rise above any of this shit, or if they do, it's only for the purpose of manipulating it to serve their interests. We so do not need people like that in power.
What's amazing about Bernie is that he doesn't operate on the manipulative level at all -- or if he does, it's extremely limited and benign.
Response to senz (Reply #23)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Pure ugliness. Even at my advanced age, it is hard to look at.
But we must be on guard, because that campaign will do any dirty thing to win.
^^^^^^^^^
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)findrskeep
(713 posts)When I saw it, my first thought was this is good news. It shows she just cannot put Bernie behind her. Looks like he's more of a contender than the Clinton machine, even with all their dirty tricks, just cannot take down. It's more difficult to fight authenticity and honesty.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)If she's running honest issue-based ads that criticize Sanders as being too progressive on economic issues and insufficiently hawkish on foreign policy, then the effect will be help counter the inevitable Republican charges that she's too far left.
The Clinton supporters think the dreaded word "socialism" will be lethal to Bernie if he's the nominee -- but, face it, the Republicans would call any Democratic nominee a socialist. (Some of them considered Romney a socialist.) Ads by Clinton that position her, quite justifiably, as being significantly to Sanders's right would influence some independents to reject those GOP attacks.
I've always thought that Clinton was likely to be the nominee but that her chance of winning will be greater if she can point out that she beat an actual socialist to get the nomination.
Of course, such honest advertising would cost her some votes on the left, but most of Bernie's supporters are probably already aware how conservative she is. That's why they're Bernie supporters!
Response to Jim Lane (Reply #9)
Name removed Message auto-removed
senz
(11,945 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)We are Bernie supporters because we know the government exists to secure the inalienable rights and general welfare of ALL Americans. We believe in government of, by, and for the people.
Hillary does not.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)I completely agree with the ideals in your first paragraph. From that point of view, you can say that Bernie is better or that Hillary is worse. The two statements are logically equivalent. We are Bernie supporters because of the comparison between Bernie and Hillary.
senz
(11,945 posts)Nearly every Friday, I listened to him taking calls from the Thom Hartmann audience and was extremely impressed.
Hillary's an entirely different story. She slightly shocked me as First Lady, but I felt defensive of her b/c of the VRWC. She shocked me again when she carpetbagged to NY to grab an open Senate seat. Her Senate votes seemed opportunistic with no foundation in deeply held principles. But her racist, demeaning treatment of Barack Obama and her lies in 2008 did it for me. I think she is a seriously bad human being.
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)Your response is echoed by so many people here. We are, first and foremost, FOR BERNIE full stop.
jillan
(39,451 posts)Make sure you PHONEBANK, even if it's just for an hour when you can.
Who better than us to "talk Bernie" to people?