Thanks for the thread Hassin Bin Sober.

If he if going to claim membership in the "working" class he should produce a lifetime record of his employment history.

Is that too much to expect from a presidential candidate?

from the time I was 12. I had no choice since both my parents were deceased.

and why Americans vote against their own interests.
Of course Sanders has working class roots...one does not need to be starving to be working class.
Many Americans believe that we are all middle class. That is simply untrue. One can make the argument that anyone who earns wages (or commissions form sales) and who survives on those wages (as opposed to people who live on inherited stock options, investment income, or a multi-thousand dollar allowance from parents beginning at age 2).

Why is this controversial? Sanders is not ashamed of his working-class roots (as our society tells us we should be), but rather wants working-class Americans to have the same opportunities he had to go to excellent schools, pursue careers, and to make positive contributions to their communities. Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren also have working class origins.

but one does need to "work" or to have unemployment be involuntary--forced by bad economic conditions or by disabilities or ill health, and not a matter of choice--to be a member of the working class in my estimation.

The scant record of Sanders' work history makes his claims of being "working" class appear dubious at best.

If that's an incorrect impression, he could clear it up my releasing his lifetime work history.

Not too much to ask of a presidential candidate IMO. Especially from one who claims to be a champion of the working class.

Elected officials also "work" (for those they represent). Unfortunately,some are also beholden to special interests, major donors, etc.

The point I was making is that we in the US need to expand our view of the "working class" so that we are not all identifying upwards toward billionaires like Bloomberg, Gates, Zuckerberg, and Trump, but rather expressing solidarity with those who are also engaged in wage labor. For instance, I have a very white collar job (profession), but I have (like Sanders, like Warren, like Klobuchar) have working class roots.

to have either a long record of working or having experienced only involuntary unemployment?

If that's the case, we disagree entirely.

Sanders has said many times that his parents were lower middle case. Not working class.

And I don't see any evidence that he himself was ever a member of the working class.

So I'd call shenanigans on the "framing."

Yes, it is wrong to limit "working class" to someone who has experienced involuntary unemployment.
Sanders has a record of work (as a public servant). He did not say that he was currently "working class," but that he was proud of his 'working class origins."

Just because he went to good schools (btw, public institutions until U of Chicago) and is a public servant, does not imply that he does not work.
His parents did not have education beyond high school, his family lived in a rental apartment, his father probably did not make a lot of money.

I do not see shenanigans at all in the framing. I would imagine that Sanders was speaking to a group of working class people (maybe union members) and wanted to express solidarity and encourage them to stand up for their rights. If more Americans identified with and allied their interests with other working Americans, rather than upwards (economically speaking) with Trumps, Bloombergs, Gates, Zuckerbergs, Kardashians, etc., we would be better off.

It mainly includes people who work damn hard for a living, and who want to work for a living, and who find unemployment to be a grave threat to their security, and not something they'd ever embrace as a choice.

How old was Sanders when he was elected to public office? About 40?

Where is the record of his work experience up until that time? He should release the CV of his employment history.

Do you not see the contradiction in the record of a man who--from the best available evidence--seems like he avoided work almost entirely in his 20s and 30s claiming to be working class?

If that's wrong, correct the record.

These are fair questions for a candidate for president to answer in my estimation. Especially for one running claiming to represent the interests of the working class.

From Wikipedia:
After graduating from college, Sanders returned to New York City, where he briefly had a variety of jobs, including Head Start teacher, psychiatric aide, and carpenter.[30] In 1968 he moved to Stannard, Vermont, a town small in both area and population (88 residents at the 1970 census) within Vermont's extremely rural "Northeast Kingdom" region, because he had been "captivated by rural life". While there he worked as a carpenter,[32] filmmaker, and writer[46] who created and sold "radical film strips" and other educational materials to schools.,[47] and also wrote several articles for the alternative publication The Vermont Freeman.[48]

No I do not see the contradiction at all. It does not seem as if Sanders was avoiding work (unless you consider carpentry, education, journalism, and creative endeavors not to be "work."

And then let's look at how well he accomplished the few "jobs" he seems to have held.

In published articles Sanders has been described as "the world's worst carpenter."

After the recent fall out over Sander's rape-fantasy writings, Sanders himself made comments to the effect that he was a very poor writer of fiction.

As to his so called "film," I made a career in documentary film. I've seen (heard) his piece on Eugene V Debs. I don't wish to be unkind, but he might have done better sticking with carpentry.

Reports are that none of these efforts provided a steady income. None were "full time." And none were done well. The "film" (a poorly done slide-show on celluloid) appears to be counted several times, as a "film," as "educational materials of schools," and as "a radical film strip."

All this makes need for Sanders to clarify his full employment history more essential.

For now it seems that he largely evaded working and what odd jobs were done were done with very low levels of competence.

Personally, I'm looking for leaders who do great jobs no matter what work they take on. KWIM?

I accept your points, but the OP was about Sanders' pride in his working class roots (growing up in a Brooklyn rental, attending public schools, etc.)
I see nothing wrong with the OP and was lamenting commenters' ridiculing of pride among those who work. You denied that Sanders' was part of the working class (which he did not claim...he claimed working-class roots),

Your disregard for Sanders' early activities echoes Giuliani's dismissal of Obama's work as a community organizer -- "what kind of job is that?" It is also a case of drowning the message (improving conditions for those at the bottom and in the middle (economically speaking(, reigning in the influence of big money in politics, and improving health care, education, housing, and infrastructure for all) by objecting to something you disapprove of in the messenger.
Let's agree to disagree. I (and you) have work to do.

This smear is very insulting. Way out of bounds!

If you want to get into it, BS's "organizing" activities were done directly against the interests of the Democratic Party and in favor of a far-left third party.

While agitating for the anti-liberal and anti-Democratic "Liberty Union Party," Sanders called for seizing the property of a private electrical utility without compensation.

Sanders has said many (many) times that his family was "lower middle class" and not working class. There is a distinction in the ideology of "class struggle."

Tell actual members of the working class that the evasion of work represents their values--especially when one has a child in need of financial support--and I would not expect a positive reaction.

in many places, Sanders' family would be "working-class." It's semantics.
And don't overly romanticize the working-class either, there are slackers among them/us and there are those who work hard.
However, working people deserve decent wages, health care, housing and education. This is not the case today and Sanders proposes to change that.

anyway. Sanders is trying to deceive in suggesting that anyone is of course, but I accept the invitation anyway. Die, all jumped-up working class people who dare to aspire!

Sanders graduated from The University of Chicago. He went to Madison High. The same high school as Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Chuck Schumer. His brother said they always had food and clothing. I’m not really sure “working class” fits Bernie’s background. Does not being rich make you “working class”?

My grandfather sold washing machines. My mom also went to Madison High. My family never considered themselves “working class.”

.....universities in the US, being a quasi-extension of the Ivy League. Compare that to his first year college, Brooklyn College, a free tuition part of the City University of New York.

Next thing we'll hear about his living in a rent controlled apartment years before rent control made it's way to Brooklyn.

We never considered ourselves to be working class either. Neither of my parents went to college, but both graduated from high school.

My maternal grandfather was an entrepreneur who started a painting/decorating company a few years after emigrating from Luxembourg. His father was a farmer and grain merchant.

My paternal grandfather was born here. His father was born in Ireland and likely educated at a hedge school. He also was an entrepreneur who had a funeral parlor. He died in the 1918 Spanish flu endemic, caught while embalming dead soldiers at an Army base in northern Illinois. My father was just 7 at the time.

My forebears were all farmers back in the assorted old countries. I'm one of the few in my family with just a bachelors degree. But I did attend one of the top universities in the Midwest, though not the U. of C.

....at home for years while she raised us.

My father quit high school at 16 to take a job working at a candy store to support the family (his father abandoned them) He went back to high school years later and finally graduated when he was 38 years old.

THAT is a "working class" background, not one where I went to one of the most expensive universities in the country at the time.

As far back as the 1940s a salesman was considered a "professional", not working class.

I guess it's a matter of perspective and what one thinks people want to hear.

She had a good job that she left to travel with my father after he joined the Army in 1942. She did not return to office work after my sister was born in 1944.

My father always wore a suit and tie for work. We definitely were better off than other parents, though that was also partly due to the fact they only had two kids vs. the seven or eight that were common in my school.

Kudos to your father for his dedication to his family, and his persistence to finish high school at that age. That can't have been easy.

After my father's father died, my grandmother (age 34 and with three boys) got a job as a bookkeeper in a furniture store. She also taught piano at home. People do what they had to do.

The only people I knew back then who had a vacation house on a lake inherited from a grandfather. The friend's family struggled to keep it up and make the kind of repairs that a Victorian house needs.

....when she had my oldest sister, and then traveled with my father when he went into the Army in 1942. And she too never went back to work after my brother was born in 1944!!!

Once my youngest sister was old enough to take care of herself, my mother applied for and became an American citizen in 1966* - her dream was always to get a civil servant's job with the City of New York, for which only American citizens qualified. Ironically she hated the job and left after four weeks, but then spent almost 30 years (into her mid-70s) as a secretary in Manhattan.

*weeks after becoming a citizen she received a personal "welcome" letter from one of our two Senators - Robert F. Kennedy!

My mother worked while on the road (er, troop train) with my father. She was secretary to a colonel when he was stationed at Fort Lewis in Washington. Later, my father did desert training in Southern California. They rented a room and she was a bank secretary during that time. My father never did make it to the desert, but spent all his time in Europe.

She got pregnant with my sister while my father was on embarkation leave in NYC, but worked for a few months after she got back to Chicago.

Congratulations to your mother on getting her citizenshi and the letter from RFK He was my choice for president in 1968, even though I wasn't yet old enough to vote. Too bad that the city job wasn't the right one, but it sounds like she found her niche at the executive secretary job.

I wish I had working class roots like Bernie so that I can put my wife on my campaign payroll, let my wife and daughter make money on both sides of a deal, have my SuperPAC fund my daugter's campaign, permanently kick campaign funds to my son to do who knows what? Heck, why not give a six-figure salary to my son-in-law to run my foundation? This is pretty good for a person who has been part of the governing establishment for most of his working life.

Yup, I can see why Bernie Sanders is loving his working class background. If only 99 percent of Americans could enjoy similar roots.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/08/bernie-sanders-summer-house

Exactly right! Doesn’t sound a bit like working class.

It’s nice that he’s standing fast though.

I guess. 🤷?♂️

he's afraid that buying yet another house will impede on his creds

Not sure where this outburst came from but ok Bernie. You just keep on keeping on.

Of course he doesn't, just as he still hasn't apologized to the parents and friends of the victims of the Sandy Hook murders or the Charleston murders.

need to apologize for? Exactly what I was thinking of.. Thank you, George

Who attacked him for being the son of an immigrant? Or for his working class roots?
Where is that suddenly coming from? Why the need to play the victim?
Is he ok, is he having a hard time?

....this is probably the first time I've thought to either mention it or refuse to "apologize" for it. It's what you make of it, and when I was 40 years old I'd already been working at the career for which I went to college, and I'd already voted 20 times.

He’s polling half of the 40% he got in the 2016 primaries
Not gaining ANY traction with older voters or AA

Thank goodness he will not be the nominee!!

We are already used to the insane tweet outbursts by the current President whose mental state is questioned for good reasons. This follows the same tactic of playing the victim and rallying the supporters against imaginary attacks. It'd actually be worse if Bernie believes what he wrote instead of playing theater.

As far as I know he doesn't apologize for anything so why is this notable?

There was a post about that tonight where he said he never apologizes for anything.

The messaging is very confusing. He does then he doesn't. Hm. Will say no more.

HRC was working class and so was Obama now that I think of it.

I don't know that the mayor counts as working class because IIRC his parents were both professors at Notre Dame

I would not be surprised to hear the terms “class card” or “immigrant card.”

As if there isn’t classism aimed at those from working class backgrounds or discrimination against the children of immigrants.

....or are from the "working class". Some do. Wonder why?

Some might call that identity politics, I suppose.

I regret it, but I don't apologize for it.

For instance, if someone is killed or incapacitated, a court may value that more highly if the person had more income.

So much is commodified in this society.

I’m glad that Sanders is focusing on class.

Senator Sanders decries their identity politics. How is what he has done here not the same?

I don’t support class reductionism or any similar type of reductionism.

I don’t need to agree with everything said by the candidates I vote for.

I thought working-class roots were almost an essential selling point for any political candidate in any party - "man of the people" and all that. Nobody ever apologizes for working-class roots; politicians claim to have them even when they don't. Hell, even Republicans tout their alleged connections to the working class (one reason Mitt Romney didn't catch on so well outside the 1% crowd - he doesn't have any).

But is there just a small chance, Bernie, that you could update your vocabulary? My husband, who is doing well in his post-retirement tech job, works from home for people who are increasingly in India. Some of his American cohorts no longer have weekends or holidays, because -- you know-- the sun never sets in the tech world. They don't own the means of production, either.

This is the sign of a campaign that knows it's in trouble. Nothing more.

didn't he decry that?

This one's for you Sen. Sanders.

who hate the working class and will stop at nothing to thwart Bernie because they are TERRIFIED being mean to him again?

Who demanded he apologize?

Nobody asked him to apologize.

And Sanders said, "I apologize to Nobody."

Sort of like Oddyseus in the cave of Polyphemus.

Maybe I'm wrong?

THE LEADER OF THE WORKING CLASS IN THIS COUNTRY!!

Indeed, this is PRECISELY why We The People love & adore Bernie so much!!

Thanks HBS for posting this... good to know!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Next tweet from Bernie:

My grandmother was African-American

What jobs have you held, sir? I won't list all of my blue collar jobs before I stopped doing that kind of work. But, I'm not running for office. So, what "working class" jobs have you held?

Sick of these campaign gimmicks and stunts. I would appreciate a little honesty in place of posturing from Sanders. A little less of claiming "first" and having all answers to every issue in history. He is a demagogue. He hammers on the same nail with an old hammer.

Sanders voted against it
Biden voted for it.

How much as that bill alone hurt the working class?

Supporting Lockheed 1.5 million F-35 jets in Vermont because of jobs. Politicians vote because of many things, including jobs in their states.

Democrats are pretty unified in our sentiments and inclusion of and in the working class. Democrats are in agreement that our diversity is a strength. We stand behind rotting out corruption.

So yeah... it's a good applause line, but his sentiments apply to the entire Democratic lineup.

Hes a populist. Hes looking to ride the working class to gain personal power.