I'd vote for a yellow dog before any gop nominee, especially trump.

BUT, that wasn't the case for all in the last election. If you look at the number of supporters who claim to have voted for trump, the number exceeds the margin clinton lost by in at least 5 critical states. And that was according to realclearpolitics - hardly a dnc friendly site.

Somewhere in the order of 12% of supporters claim to have switched sides and voted for trump. Bitterness? Hate?

Whatever, they contributed to the loss. Will it happen again?

How many were Trump voters just ratfucking.

Much as they will be doing in California. There's no point in any of them being 'Republican' in the primaries, so I think many of them will change to Democrat and vote in our primary, probably for Bernie, maybe Tulsi, just to ensure maximum strife at the Convention.

Last edited Sun Jan 5, 2020, 12:27 PM - Edit history (4)

Today's CBS News Battleground Tracker Poll for Iowa : Bernie 23% ( +1% ) .. Biden 23% (+1%).. Buttigieg 23% (+2%)... Warren 16% (-1%) ... Klobuchar 7% ( +2%) …. CBS News Battleground Tracker Poll for NH : Bernie 27%(+ 7%)... Biden 25%( +3% ) .. Warren 18% (- 13%)... Buttigieg 12% (- 4%) . Klobuchar 7% ( + 4% ) .. Thought everyone might be interested ………. Article entitled : " Sanders starts 2020 in Strong Position in Iowa and NH.- CBS News Battleground Tracker "

It's the loudest, most obnoxious group wins.

Not really a democratic process. A lot of votes will change on election night. No matter what people say going in, it won't necessarily stand up to the heat of the moment.

Regardless, it's a meaningless victory. Bragging rights and no more.

Super tuesday will sweep it all away.

For the record, I never thought biden would do well there. It's more friendly to activists and extremists. That process doesn't lend itself to boring, talented, and competent.

Though that's not the kind of "more cowbell" Joe would approve of given his outdated views.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

Yuge things. The Biggestest of things.

Liberalising Cannabis policy won't be one of them; we pushed that train down the tracks already. He's cool with it.

Even President Sanders Iikely wouldn't make legalization of marijuana under Federal law a top priority, though I do see it happening, eventually, under his leadership... it can wait, however, perhaps even as long as in Bernie's second term.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

All we need at the federal level is (1) removing it from schedule 1, and (b) removing it from federal drug screening protocols. Passing a bill that would prevent employers from firing employees in rec legal states for testing positive would be a big plus, but lets get real there. . The first 2 can be done by executive order.

If they did those 2+ things, 99% of the issues would be resolved at the federal level. Then the states fight continues.

Right now, in my state cannabis is rec legal. I can consume, purchase, possess, and grow it legally. What I can't do is fail a federal or employment drug test. So effectively I can't use it.

The problem with testing is it isn't like bac for alcohol. A positive test doesn't mean you are currently impaired. It also doesn't mean you were at any specific point. All it means is that at some point in the last 7-30 days, you consumed some.

They don't have a test to determine impairment. That has to be observed. Maybe someday, just not today.

So Joe will take of it eventually. In the meantime its a crazy world.

But remember who pushed for lgbt rights under obama. That wasn't something you would have predicted by his previous comments either.

since Joe will NOT get the nomination, as he is far less likely than Bernie to beat President Pig Vomit. We just can't afford to take that risk this time around!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

Sanders will have a whopping 7 more delegates than Biden. After NH, it is all downhill for Sanders. He cannot get midwestern moderate support and he won't get southern AA support. He is DONE.

Three of my relatives, a mother and her daughters, all registered voters (mother=R, daughters=I). In 2016 they HATED trump, were insulted when I suggested they would probably vote for him. They climbed on the Bernie Bus and even went to a rally together. They loved him. In the end, mother (R) voted for trump along with one of her daughters. The other daughter didn't vote for anybody. Amen.

plan to vote for him no matter what all the way through...they did it in 2016...wrote his name in on their ballot in the general. I know at least half a dozen of these folks. There is no changing their minds. No one can convince me that they’re not in a cult as dangerous as the MAGAt cult.

by writing in name of their preference.

I don’t think they care. I wonder what they’ll do for a cult candidate when BS doesn’t run in 2024 or when he dies. Seriously.

At worst, they are in a messianic thrall

This is probably even truer now than a month ago because a ham sandwich cannot order a high level official of another country to be assassintated.

for Biden if he is our nominee?

"Will they vote?" If they do, I don't see why they wouldn't vote for Biden if he is the Democratic nominee. I don't think nonvoters will come out to vote for Trump.

a basically nonpolitical person will do. Obviously, not everyone follows politics and current events the way we do and novice voters could be getting their information from memes and Facebook posts.

assuming the Russians don't hack the election.

Oligarchs using their power and money to sway voters towards their interests will be a problem again I think.

At least if we have a popular candidate, we can overcome their corrupt practices with numbers. I still believe republicans stole the 2000 and 2004 elections, but if we'd gotten more voters to the polls, their attempts would have failed. Republicans will do whatever it takes to win, scruples be damned.

win more votes and lose again because of our archaic electoral college system. Manipulating voting tallies in just a few critical districts is much easier than fixing an election on a national level. We will need a big voter turnout if we are to prevail.

And then we'll have to maintain that level of voting in years to come. Poor voter turn-out gives republicans too many opportunities to manipulate the results. Democrats are inclined to get lazy after a victory.

Bernie is igniting a movement that has touched the soul of We The People who make up the working class in this country, and who are sick and tired of the wealth inequality, racial inequality, and other injustices that have impeded our progress!!

Bernie's progressive vision will bring millions of newly registered voters into the Democratic Party... voters who are not satisfied with incremental change that promises a "return to normalcy." Rather, they demand a BOLD PROGRESSIVE AGENDA... and that is EXACTLY what President Sanders will deliver during the two terms of his Administration!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

go to the polls. I agree that a return to a so-called normalcy will be a disaster even if we win. When were things normal? When Bush/Cheney were torturing prisoners and promoting endless wars? When Americans were being urged to consume more so that the economy would grow, thereby exacerbating climate change? I think we need change and fast if we are going to make it as a species.

Bernie exudes energy... the guy is unstoppable, even after a freakin' heart attack!! Bernie will energize the base to go out and vote to defeat Dolt45, along with a whole generation of NEW VOTERS, like no other candidate can.

It's a no-brainer to nominate Bernie for President, he won't let us down!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

Know any Bernie supporters. What’s promising to me is that my 20 yr old daughter, says she thinks Biden is the one that can beat Trump and she hopes he selects a running mate who is young and who has climate change as their main issue. She can’t wait to cast her vote.

who were Bernie supporters in 2016 and they love Joe Biden. Actually we became friends years ago because of our mutual support and admiration for Biden.

Last edited Sun Jan 5, 2020, 12:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Remembering, Sanders himself was strangely enraged after Hillary was nominated, bizarrely considering even reluctant observers had to accept she'd won months before. But his rage was seemingly exceeded by that of his zealots, many of whom called for everyone to leave the Democratic Party and did so themselves. Many of them were notably enraged at Sanders for even a long-delayed, reluctant pro forma endorsement they knew he didn't mean. But they're with him again for now.

Regarding other influences, on election day 2016 his wife tweeted to the nation that it didn't matter who people voted for as long as they voted. This with Trump as the alternative and congress and many states at stake.

At the same time, some of his top staff were recommending voting third party, passionately calling for "Demexit," and later confirmed they'd done one or both themselves. I don't think any admitted voting for Trump; but judging by nearly half of Sanders' most zealous, Sanders-or-"Die, Demorats" followers, I think it's reasonable to suspect some in the Sanders campaign did. He still has many of the same staff, or replacements of the same sort, out stumping and tweeting.

And fwiw, Sanders has said he never voted, all through the Civil Rights era even, not even for the establishment of the Medicare he's making such hay with now, until he finally voted for the first time for himself. Apparently the only candidate on any ballot in any decade that met his standards to that point was him, and he won't be on the 2020 GE ballot. That at least wasn't reflected in his 2016 zealots; only 2% refused to vote at all -- they're a passionate bunch of Trump electors.

So they're basically the same people, which is why I believe they'll all do the same next time according to their individual natures. Noting that 3/4 of Sanders' 2016 primary voters always intended to vote for Hillary in the GE and did and that 24% always intended to refuse to and did.

"If we can't win, we'll burn the house down", even if they are in that house.

political psychologists and sociologists say people, and whole groups, are lead toward truth and rationality or deeper into extremist delusions by the leaders they listen to.

People aren't blocs of course. I am hoping the choices this election are helping draw some individuals away from the abyss. Having only one alternative who was attacked with massive lies repeated by seemingly everyone, including corrupt MSM, was very not good for them.

As for the leaders who try to influence us, if it's not true it's betrayal.

can be swept up in the moment, fueled by anger and discontent. It is easy to lose one's perspective especially if you are influenced by a charismatic leader. Of course, the definition of "charismatic" varies and personally, I've never seen the attraction that a lot of people did.


You know to be honest, I never bought the whole "Hope & Change" hype of 2008. I really don't like group mentality. I was more interested in tangible attributes like character, experience, and policy. I guess I am a hard-sell in that sense. Obama never sold himself to me as a candidate, he ended up earning my respect and support as a president. By 2012, I was an enthusiastic supporter at two of his rallies. It was an incredible experience, everyone was so genuinely happy and optimistic.

That is very quotable - "If it's not true, it's betrayal".

because I have no interest in or need to be swept up and inspired by rhetoric. Give me a synopsis and info on how it went over with others. I never attended any of Obama's rallies as president and regret that. By then I felt the hope and change.

If Hillary with a Republican senate, at least fairly equal house, and more state governments, had followed and built on Obama's beginnings for another 8 years (we did elect her!), over that period we would have replaced the degradation and corruption of the conservative era with almost a generation of progressive advances. I blame Sanders and those who listened to him for their believing the opposite.

I've admired and respected him for close to two decades. At a time when everyone, left and right, were talking in scripted political soundbites, he spoke like a real person. His personal story and foreign policy experience were really impressive and I remember hoping that he would run for president some day. Apparently, he was approached by the party to run in 2004, but he turned them down. I think he could have beat GW Bush and the world would probably look a lot different today.

I believe we need a blue sweep throughout the country. We need to stop putting so much focus on just the presidential race. Without Democratic majorities on a national, state, and local level, a progressive president could easily be a lame duck. I'm afraid that is what could have happened with Hillary. At least now, we have an opportunity to finally get rid of a lot of republicans who have obstructed meaningful progress every chance they had for years, even when they agreed with the policy or nominees.

That is my rather feeble attempt to see the silver lining in this nightmare, but I do believe a lot of republicans have dug their own political graves while supporting Donald Trump. There are so many things you just can't walk back.

Who are you to demand this?

BTW, welcome to DU, enjoy your time here.

did not sit well with people. Speaking of "rude", it was rather rude to come to a group and make demands of other members in your first post.

I was willing to give him/her the benefit of the doubt, but new member did not stay around long enough to make amends.

that the person has been kicked.

Maybe next time she/he won't be demanding anything on their first post.

If one wants to push an agenda, one needs to be more subtle and persuasive.

it is the disdain that Bernie has shown the Democratic party that is turning so many people off. I've been an admirer of Bernie Sanders for at least two decades, but I am very disappointed in the way he has treated a party that he adopts on a part-time basis when it suits his political needs.

And I personally know at least one Bernie supporter who DID vote for a third party candidate rather than Hillary. That person had serious regrets when Trump won. I am sure there were many more.

Welcome to DU.

...when it suits his political needs.”

THAT is precisely the problem. Well said.

It gives me no pleasure to say that, as I really had a high regard for Bernie Sanders. This is terribly disappointing.

And he is a Democrat for the convenience of running for President. And there is a vague "threat" he would run as an Independent.

threatening to let trump win again if bernie isn't the nominee.

a lot of those could be bots and trolls. Twitter is lousy with them.

Like they did last time. Stop spreading FUD.

is allowed here.

sorry but there is BAD precedent regarding that.

relationships with foreign nations, advocate for the rights of all Americans, and work to undo the horrific mess that Donald Trump has made of our country's government and reputation.

If that isn't enough to court young, "progressive" voters, then they deserve Trump, and what he will do to their future.

If "young, progressive" people want to be taken seriously, it's time for them to grow up and demonstrate that they understand just how serious this situation is, and the consequences of their choices.

like I have in every presidential election, beginning in 1968. I want to believe that everyone who currently supports a Democratic candidate will do exactly the same thing.

I'm counting on that.