Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

TomCADem

(17,390 posts)
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 06:10 PM Jan 2020

Ironically, When Russia Assassinates People, Bernie Votes to Support Russia

It is nice to see Bernie take a strong stand along with other Democrats against Trump's efforts to provoke a war with Iran by assassinating a top Iran general. Indeed, the immediate result is to cause Iran to abandon the nuclear deal that Biden helped negotiate. Yet, for Bernie's supposed principles, it is odd that he was one of the few to vote to support Putin and his Russian Oligarchs by voting against the Magnitsky Act. This is entirely separate from his 2017 vote against Russian election sanctions.

https://www.npr.org/2017/07/28/539802914/businessman-paints-a-terrifying-and-complex-picture-of-putins-russia

After making their complaint, Browder was accused of tax evasion; he alleges the $230 million he thought his business was paying in taxes to the Russian Treasury was misappropriated and funneled to those in power, at once making him a criminal and making Putin's circle richer.

He was denied access back into the country after an international trip, but Magnitsky wasn't so lucky. Browder told the senators the Russian lawyer was detained by the authorities, denied medical treatment for pancreatitis while he was jailed, and then allegedly beaten to death in 2009 while chained to a prison cell bed.

Putin has continuously denied the allegations regarding Magnitsky.

"Investigators concluded that there was no malicious intent, or criminal negligence in Magnitsky's death. It was just a tragedy," Putin said in 2013, in an interview with a Russian television station. "One might think no deaths occur in U.S. prisons."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
69 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Ironically, When Russia Assassinates People, Bernie Votes to Support Russia (Original Post) TomCADem Jan 2020 OP
'The Magnitsky Act, formally known as the Russia and Moldova Jackson-Vanik elleng Jan 2020 #1
Why Did Bernie Sanders Vote Against the Magnitsky Act? vsrazdem Jan 2020 #2
DITTO, and THANKS. elleng Jan 2020 #6
Here's some interesting facts: George II Jan 2020 #19
Misleading, implying sanders is pro Russia. vsrazdem Jan 2020 #23
A few more points: George II Jan 2020 #29
Your distaste for Sandes is clearly apparent. I recall someone's campaign also had issues vsrazdem Jan 2020 #30
Yes there was, it was isolated to a single person. It was addressed in the course of the campaign.. George II Jan 2020 #31
The allegations were not made public until 2019 and Bernie was not aware of it (until 3 years vsrazdem Jan 2020 #36
I suppose the obvious question would be: Why wasn't he aware of it three years ago? He was known... George II Jan 2020 #37
Yes, that would be your question. For me, if someone doesn't tell anybody for 3 years, I think it vsrazdem Jan 2020 #40
As a matter of fact, he knew about some of it, and as a result he instituted stronger controls.... George II Jan 2020 #41
It is not as if this is the only campaign that has ever had problems. vsrazdem Jan 2020 #42
Where we got here in this discussion is that you pointed out his missed vote back in January... George II Jan 2020 #47
Are you thinking of the campaign whose workers unionized in The Valley Below Jan 2020 #39
Sounds like the excuse for missing the vote is shaky at best. The Valley Below Jan 2020 #52
Sanders Wants New NATO with Russia TomCADem Jan 2020 #49
You do realize this speech was before we found out Russia meddled in the election, right? vsrazdem Jan 2020 #50
Which is Probably Why Russia Was All-In for Bernie and Trump in 2016 TomCADem Jan 2020 #53
What a monster! He wanted to team up with Russia to fight a common enemy of violent extremists! Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2020 #62
I don't understand how a country can become part of.... George II Jan 2020 #55
Well, I think there are a few member countries that would disagree with you. vsrazdem Jan 2020 #67
Just, stop ... BuffaloJackalope Jan 2020 #3
Dumbest OP of the day SCantiGOP Jan 2020 #13
Just Facts and Votes. This Is Not an Opinion. TomCADem Jan 2020 #44
As others have pointed out here, it's dishonest & misleading. BuffaloJackalope Jan 2020 #46
Should We Take The Word of Bernie's Own Campaign Staff? TomCADem Jan 2020 #59
dishonest, misleading & divisive. BuffaloJackalope Jan 2020 #61
Bernie Sanders lambasts 'absolute failure' of Democratic party's strategy TomCADem Jan 2020 #64
At this point you're just helping the other side BuffaloJackalope Jan 2020 #66
Ironically, When Trump Assassinates People, some voters still Support him. Aussie105 Jan 2020 #4
Yes, and WORSE than 'distraction,' I think. elleng Jan 2020 #10
It's complicated. Voltaire2 Jan 2020 #5
Thanks elleng Jan 2020 #7
It's tiresome. Voltaire2 Jan 2020 #8
What's tiresome is that someone would post this, elleng Jan 2020 #9
That's what I meant. Voltaire2 Jan 2020 #11
Tiresome? More like business as usual for some people. Autumn Jan 2020 #15
yes elleng Jan 2020 #16
Oh! katmondoo Jan 2020 #34
Senate Democrats fail to stop Trump administration from lifting sanctions on firms linked to Putin TomCADem Jan 2020 #57
"along with other Democrats" melman Jan 2020 #12
Right, elleng Jan 2020 #18
Yes I know melman Jan 2020 #21
I won't dip my toe into THAT one, elleng Jan 2020 #26
In a Venn Diagram of who voted against Magnitsky and Russia Sanctions.... George II Jan 2020 #32
woosh melman Jan 2020 #33
I'll explain it with this: George II Jan 2020 #35
+1 sheshe2 Jan 2020 #38
This is disgraceful. Autumn Jan 2020 #14
that the OP would attempt to leave such a false 'meme.' elleng Jan 2020 #17
It's allowed. Autumn Jan 2020 #22
if we allow it; elleng Jan 2020 #24
So do I, but facts are long gone and it doesn't seem to matter anymore. Autumn Jan 2020 #27
;-( elleng Jan 2020 #28
Agree. It Is Utterly Disgraceful That Bernie Alone Voted ... TomCADem Jan 2020 #45
He wasn't against it and you know it. His reason for his vote has been given to you many times. nt Autumn Jan 2020 #48
VPR: How The Russian Social Media Effort Boosted Bernie TomCADem Jan 2020 #51
Misinformation. jalan48 Jan 2020 #20
YES! elleng Jan 2020 #25
Bernie Is The Only Person To Vote Against Magnitsky Act and Russian Sanctions TomCADem Jan 2020 #43
Instead of denial, you should read up on Sanders' Russia record. Hortensis Jan 2020 #69
Opinion Kurt V. Jan 2020 #54
Senate Democrats fail to stop Trump administration from lifting sanctions on firms linked to Putin TomCADem Jan 2020 #56
you intentionally made a link between Russian sanctions and sanders vote. Kurt V. Jan 2020 #58
"Implying an asset" That Makes No Sense. These are Bernie's votes. TomCADem Jan 2020 #60
do you think sanders is asset for russia? That's all I'm asking Kurt V. Jan 2020 #63
It is an age old phenomenon NYMinute Jan 2020 #65
... Scurrilous Jan 2020 #68
 

elleng

(131,240 posts)
1. 'The Magnitsky Act, formally known as the Russia and Moldova Jackson-Vanik
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 06:24 PM
Jan 2020

Repeal and Sergei Magnitsky Rule of Law Accountability Act of 2012, is a bipartisan bill passed by the U.S. Congress and signed into law by President Barack Obama in December 2012, intending to punish Russian officials responsible for the death of Russian tax accountant Sergei Magnitsky in a Moscow prison in 2009.

Since 2016 the bill, which applies globally, authorizes the US government to sanction those who it sees as human rights offenders, freeze their assets, and ban them from entering the U.S.'>>>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitsky_Act

For information, IMPORTANT to note FACTS:

*Sanders was joined in voting nay by Carl Levin (D-MI), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), and Jack Reed (D-RI). . .

the Obama administration opposed the Magnitsky Act. The administration flip-flopped only after the sanctions were attached to a bill normalizing trade relations with Russia, hence the bill’s official name: The Russia and Moldova Jackson-Vanik Repeal and Sergei Magnitsky Rule of Law Accountability Act of 2012 (H.R. 6156). . .

Sanders voted for a second, more robust version of the Magnitsky Act in 2015. . .

Sanders supports imposing punitive sanctions targeting Putin and his oligarch cronies.'>>>

https://pplswar.wordpress.com/2018/07/19/why-did-bernie-sanders-vote-against-the-magnitsky-act/



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

vsrazdem

(2,177 posts)
2. Why Did Bernie Sanders Vote Against the Magnitsky Act?
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 06:24 PM
Jan 2020
https://pplswar.wordpress.com/2018/07/19/why-did-bernie-sanders-vote-against-the-magnitsky-act/

The fact that Bernie Sanders (I-VT) voted against the so-called Magnitsky Act of 2012 imposing targeted sanctions on Russian oligarchs to punish the Putin regime for human rights abuses is often cited as “proof” by liberal conspiracy theorists that Sanders was somehow culpable in the Kremlin’s targeted effort to damage the candidacy of Hillary Clinton as part of their broader attack on the 2016 U.S. election.

What liberal conspiracy theorists won’t tell you is that Sanders was joined in voting nay by Carl Levin (D-MI), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), and Jack Reed (D-RI) none of whom stand accused by anyone of being Russian stooges.

What liberal conspiracy theorists won’t tell you is that the Obama administration opposed the Magnitsky Act. The administration flip-flopped only after the sanctions were attached to a bill normalizing trade relations with Russia, hence the bill’s official name: The Russia and Moldova Jackson-Vanik Repeal and Sergei Magnitsky Rule of Law Accountability Act of 2012 (H.R. 6156).

What liberal conspiracy theorists won’t tell you is that Sanders voted for a second, more robust version of the Magnitsky Act in 2015.

What liberal conspiracy theorists won’t tell you is that Sanders supports imposing punitive sanctions targeting Putin and his oligarch cronies, supports the sprawling Russia counter-intelligence investigation of the 2016 election led by Special Counsel Robert Mueller, denounces Russian aggression and Putin on a fairly regular basis, and during the 2016 presidential campaign supported sending more U.S. troops to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s (NATO) Eastern European members to deter Russia from attacking them the way it attacked Ukraine in 2014.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

elleng

(131,240 posts)
6. DITTO, and THANKS.
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 06:29 PM
Jan 2020

We CAN'T let misleading 'memes' go un-answered.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
19. Here's some interesting facts:
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 06:57 PM
Jan 2020

The Magnisky Act was passed in the Senate by a vote of 92-4, with 4 not voting. It passed in the House 365-43, with 25 not voting. Vote combined was 457 for, 47 against.

The Russia Sanctions bill passed in the Senate by a vote of 98-2. It passed in the House 419-3, with 11 not voting. Vote combined was 517 for, 3 against.

Only one Senator voted against both of these, Senator Sanders.

In January 2019 the Senate held a vote to reverse a decision by the Treasury Department to lift sanctions against Oleg Deripaska's companies. 99 Senators participated in the vote, only one did not - Senator Sanders.

Three separate votes on bills to sanction Russia - two Sanders "nay", one "not voting".

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

vsrazdem

(2,177 posts)
23. Misleading, implying sanders is pro Russia.
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 07:13 PM
Jan 2020

Sanders missed the 2019 vote because he was in a meeting with people who had worked in his campaign & faced harassment. The logistics were already arranged. If he missed that meeting after arranging the meeting, the headline would be "Sanders doesn't care about Sexual Harassment". If he attended the meeting, the headline would be "Sanders missed Russia vote". He can't win either way.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
29. A few more points:
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 07:23 PM
Jan 2020

1. The reason for that meeting was that there was rampant sexual abuse and harassment in his campaign, as well as income inequality - men were getting paid MUCH more than women who were doing the same job.
2. The meeting took place over the course of 24+ hours. The vote on the floor of the Senate was a 30-minute vote.
3. The meeting took place only minutes from the Capitol.
4. Coincidentally, he left the Senate chamber as the vote was beginning and didn't return until after the vote closed. He was gone less than an hour.

Ninety-nine other Senators were able to participate in the vote for sanctions against Oleg Deripaska. Only one didn't.

As to your headline, he very easily could have addressed that meeting an hour before or an hour after the vote.

Finally, if there was more control over his campaign staffers the meeting never would have had to be held in the first place.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

vsrazdem

(2,177 posts)
30. Your distaste for Sandes is clearly apparent. I recall someone's campaign also had issues
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 07:31 PM
Jan 2020

regarding sexual harrassment, don't remember which one, but I do know it was not nearly as covered as Bernie. Wonder why. These types of posts are not constructive and will do nothing but divide potential voters for the democratic ticket. I will vote for whoever the nominee is, but I fear the same will not be said if Bernie were to win the nomination, and save your breath telling me it won't happen. Nobody can predict who will win.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
31. Yes there was, it was isolated to a single person. It was addressed in the course of the campaign..
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 07:37 PM
Jan 2020

....(not three years later) and that person was dismissed.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

vsrazdem

(2,177 posts)
36. The allegations were not made public until 2019 and Bernie was not aware of it (until 3 years
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 08:00 PM
Jan 2020

later), and so yes, he definitely needed to address it and did so.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
37. I suppose the obvious question would be: Why wasn't he aware of it three years ago? He was known...
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 08:05 PM
Jan 2020

...to be a micro manager, with his hand in everything. Or was he?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

vsrazdem

(2,177 posts)
40. Yes, that would be your question. For me, if someone doesn't tell anybody for 3 years, I think it
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 08:21 PM
Jan 2020

would be difficult to know it's going on. Even people who are micromanagers, which I have never heard that Bernie was, are not mind readers. Unless they listen to a lot of gossip at a campaign headquarters, if it was even discussed prior to this, you would'nt know. But do go ahead and blame the candidate for someone else's inapprorpiate behavior. That seems par for the course.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
41. As a matter of fact, he knew about some of it, and as a result he instituted stronger controls....
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 08:27 PM
Jan 2020

....in his 2018 Senate campaign.

Sanders recently apologized and acknowledged that his 2016 campaign could have handled sexual harassment and sexism claims better, and in his 2018 re-election campaign, he reportedly instituted sharper protocols like better hiring, training, and designating an independent firm that staff could utilize to report sexism and harassment.


https://theintercept.com/2019/01/10/bernie-sanders-campaign-sexual-harassment-sexism/
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

vsrazdem

(2,177 posts)
42. It is not as if this is the only campaign that has ever had problems.
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 08:31 PM
Jan 2020

Maybe you should read you own links.

I told my story to bring attention to the sexist environment that is unfortunately endemic to most workspaces, including political campaigns. However, I was disheartened to discover that the takeaway by many pundits was not that sexism and harassment is pervasive, but that Sanders was somehow uniquely culpable. I was also struck by some of the messages and tweets calling into question the character of the women who spoke out.

As was the case throughout the 2016 campaign season, my personal experiences as a woman of color were sublimated to serve an establishment media narrative that pretends the progressive movement is all white, all male, and runs counter to the interests of women and people of color.

But my story should not be taken to confirm the “Bernie bro” mythology. It should be taken to confirm the pervasiveness of sexism in professional life and distill the hard truths that all campaigns should learn from.

It’s not as if the Sanders campaign alone is nursing the last vestiges of sexism and sexual harassment in the political sphere. Both were reportedly features of Hillary Clinton’s 2008 presidential campaign. During her first run at the White House, Clinton’s campaign chose to retain a senior adviser who reportedly harassed a young woman repeatedly rather than fire him. And just last month, an aide for Sen. Kamala Harris, D-Calif., resigned after it was reported that he settled a sexual harassment lawsuit for $400,000.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
47. Where we got here in this discussion is that you pointed out his missed vote back in January...
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 08:46 PM
Jan 2020

....was so he could address the issues in his 2016 campaign. That isn't a very good excuse since the meeting was conducted over a 24-hour period and the vote he skipped, which was to reimpose sanctions on Russian Oleg Deripaska, was only a 30-minute vote.

That's the subject of this discussion, his failure a number of times to vote against Russia or Russians.

The meeting, which you brought up not me, was just a distraction.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
39. Are you thinking of the campaign whose workers unionized in
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 08:16 PM
Jan 2020

response to allegations of widespread sexual harassment and gender-based pay discrimination?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
52. Sounds like the excuse for missing the vote is shaky at best.
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 08:55 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TomCADem

(17,390 posts)
49. Sanders Wants New NATO with Russia
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 08:47 PM
Jan 2020

I understand this desire to try to justify or portray Bernie's vote as a one off. Of course, like Trump, Bernie has also long been a critic of NATO and had even proposed including Russian in NATO even though NATO was formed as a bulkwark against Russian aggression.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/11/19/sanders-wants-new-nato-with-russia

Bernie Sanders wants a new NATO -- and he wants Russia to be part of it.

In a lengthy speech to a jam-packed house at Georgetown University this afternoon, the senator and presidential candidate called for the creation of a new multi-nation organization to fight global extremism.

“We must create a new organization like NATO to confront the security threats of the 21st century -- an organization that emphasizes cooperation and collaboration to defeat the rise of violent extremism and, importantly, to address the root causes underlying these brutal acts,” he said in the speech. “We must work with our NATO partners, we must work to expand the coalition with Russia and we must work with members of the Arab League.”

The senator’s campaign press secretary, Symone Sanders, confirmed after the speech that the candidate wants Russia and Arab League member nations to be part of the group. She referred to it as “NATO 2.0.”
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

vsrazdem

(2,177 posts)
50. You do realize this speech was before we found out Russia meddled in the election, right?
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 08:52 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TomCADem

(17,390 posts)
53. Which is Probably Why Russia Was All-In for Bernie and Trump in 2016
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 08:58 PM
Jan 2020

Thank you. The question is why even after he learned about such interference, Bernie did not vote for Russian election sanctions. If there was some element of that bill that he did not like, then as a senior senator, he should have worked it out so that he could stand with the American people.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,348 posts)
62. What a monster! He wanted to team up with Russia to fight a common enemy of violent extremists!
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 09:36 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
55. I don't understand how a country can become part of....
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 09:09 PM
Jan 2020

....any North Atlantic Treaty Organization when the country doesn't border on the North Atlantic Ocean or, for that matter, ANY ocean.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

vsrazdem

(2,177 posts)
67. Well, I think there are a few member countries that would disagree with you.
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 09:45 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

SCantiGOP

(13,874 posts)
13. Dumbest OP of the day
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 06:46 PM
Jan 2020

What good does this crap do anybody?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TomCADem

(17,390 posts)
44. Just Facts and Votes. This Is Not an Opinion.
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 08:41 PM
Jan 2020

This is Bernie's voting record. He can pontificate, but when it came down to it, Bernie voting with Putin and Russian Oligarchs. Likewise, when it came to protecting out election system from Russian interference, Bernie sided with Putin and against the integrity of U.S. elections, which is made even worse because Russian interference helped him.

You can say Fake News all you want, but his votes are a matter of public record.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BuffaloJackalope

(818 posts)
46. As others have pointed out here, it's dishonest & misleading.
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 08:45 PM
Jan 2020

Democrats are better than this.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TomCADem

(17,390 posts)
59. Should We Take The Word of Bernie's Own Campaign Staff?
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 09:18 PM
Jan 2020

Who have actively pushed Trump/Russian talking points. For example, Briahna Joy Gray is Bernie's current and former campaign secretary:


?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E780590640438603777&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2F%3Fcom%3Dview_post%26forum%3D1287%26pid%3D386015

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BuffaloJackalope

(818 posts)
61. dishonest, misleading & divisive.
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 09:33 PM
Jan 2020

Just stop

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TomCADem

(17,390 posts)
64. Bernie Sanders lambasts 'absolute failure' of Democratic party's strategy
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 09:39 PM
Jan 2020

Sunlight is the best disinfectant. I submit that the reason why cites to Bernie's votes and the statements of Bernie's campaign are divisive would because Bernie himself tries to create division. I am simply saying that we need to acknowledge that Bernie himself is often the source of the division. Bernie has long elevated himself by trashing the Democratic party:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/11/bernie-sanders-lambasts-absolute-failure-of-democratic-partys-strategy

Bernie Sanders has criticised the Democratic party’s current direction as “an absolute failure” in a speech at the People’s Summit in Chicago.

Speaking to a crowd of 4,000 activists, Sanders hailed the “enormous progress in advancing the progressive agenda”, saying the increasing House and Senate support for a $15 minimum wage and the opposition to the Trans-Pacific Partnership showed the success of the movement.

But the Vermont senator said that establishment Democrats were standing in the way of further progress.

The current model and the current strategy of the Democratic party is an absolute failure,” Sanders said.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BuffaloJackalope

(818 posts)
66. At this point you're just helping the other side
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 09:42 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Aussie105

(5,458 posts)
4. Ironically, When Trump Assassinates People, some voters still Support him.
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 06:29 PM
Jan 2020

There.

Fixed the thread title.

Distraction type threads like this are not needed. Go away!

No need to thank me.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

elleng

(131,240 posts)
10. Yes, and WORSE than 'distraction,' I think.
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 06:40 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Voltaire2

(13,231 posts)
5. It's complicated.
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 06:29 PM
Jan 2020

The Obama administration opposed the original 2012 Magnitsky act until it was modified to include trade normalization with Russia. Sanders opposed the normalization and voted against the bill.

He voted for the 2015 version. That one was stronger than the 2012 version and was not loaded with other issues.

Sanders voted against the 2017 version as it included Trumps new sanctions against Iran, in violation of the nuclear accord.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Voltaire2

(13,231 posts)
8. It's tiresome.
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 06:34 PM
Jan 2020

We have an actual foreign asset in the White House. None of our candidates are supporting fascists.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

elleng

(131,240 posts)
9. What's tiresome is that someone would post this,
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 06:38 PM
Jan 2020

'Ironically, When Russia Assassinates People, Bernie Votes to Support Russia,' and expect it to pass, unexamined.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Voltaire2

(13,231 posts)
11. That's what I meant.
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 06:41 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
15. Tiresome? More like business as usual for some people.
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 06:52 PM
Jan 2020

It's disgraceful.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TomCADem

(17,390 posts)
57. Senate Democrats fail to stop Trump administration from lifting sanctions on firms linked to Putin
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 09:13 PM
Jan 2020

It is amazing how Bernie always seems to have a handy excuse to avoid voting against Russian oligarchs.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/16/senate-democrats-vote-to-block-trump-from-lifting-russia-sanctions-fails.html

Senate Democrats on Wednesday came up short in a vote to stop the Trump administration from easing sanctions on companies linked to Oleg Deripaska, a Russian billionaire with ties to Russia’s president, Vladimir Putin.

A motion to push that resolution forward in the Republican-majority Senate, which required a 60-vote majority to pass, came up three votes shy in a proceeding that saw 11 GOP senators side with Democrats.

The only one to miss the vote was Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt. He was meeting with women who had accused his 2016 presidential campaign of sexual misconduct, his spokesman, Josh Miller-Lewis, told CNBC.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

melman

(7,681 posts)
12. "along with other Democrats"
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 06:44 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

elleng

(131,240 posts)
18. Right,
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 06:57 PM
Jan 2020

Carl Levin (D-MI), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), and Jack Reed (D-RI)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

melman

(7,681 posts)
21. Yes I know
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 07:11 PM
Jan 2020

But it's funny because "Bernie's not a Democrat" is a constant refrain, and I'm sure the OP wouldn't have meant to say that he is.

But they did.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

elleng

(131,240 posts)
26. I won't dip my toe into THAT one,
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 07:18 PM
Jan 2020

never have, won't start now.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
32. In a Venn Diagram of who voted against Magnitsky and Russia Sanctions....
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 07:39 PM
Jan 2020

....only one name would be inside both intersecting circles.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
35. I'll explain it with this:
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 07:58 PM
Jan 2020
A Venn diagram (also called primary diagram, set diagram or logic diagram) is a diagram that shows all possible logical relations between a finite collection of different sets. These diagrams depict elements as points in the plane, and sets as regions inside closed curves. A Venn diagram consists of multiple overlapping closed curves, usually circles, each representing a set. The points inside a curve labelled S represent elements of the set S, while points outside the boundary represent elements not in the set S. This lends to easily read visualizations; for example, the set of all elements that are members of both sets S and T, S ? T, is represented visually by the area of overlap of the regions S and T. In Venn diagrams the curves are overlapped in every possible way, showing all possible relations between the sets. They are thus a special case of Euler diagrams, which do not necessarily show all relations. Venn diagrams were conceived around 1880 by John Venn.


I can give you an explanation of Euler diagrams too if you want.

Here's an example. Substitute "Multiples of 3" with "Magnisky" and "Multiples of 5" with "Russia Sanctions" and you've got it:

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
14. This is disgraceful.
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 06:50 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

elleng

(131,240 posts)
17. that the OP would attempt to leave such a false 'meme.'
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 06:56 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

elleng

(131,240 posts)
24. if we allow it;
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 07:16 PM
Jan 2020

I wouldn't. I prefer FACTS.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
27. So do I, but facts are long gone and it doesn't seem to matter anymore.
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 07:20 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TomCADem

(17,390 posts)
45. Agree. It Is Utterly Disgraceful That Bernie Alone Voted ...
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 08:43 PM
Jan 2020

...against the Magnitsky Act and Russian Election sanctions. Thank you.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
48. He wasn't against it and you know it. His reason for his vote has been given to you many times. nt
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 08:46 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TomCADem

(17,390 posts)
51. VPR: How The Russian Social Media Effort Boosted Bernie
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 08:53 PM
Jan 2020

Bernie's Stated Reason Does Not Hold Water when considered with his vote against Russian election sanctions coupled with his long standing hostility towards U.S. involvement with NATO. Of course, there is the fact that Bernie directly benefitted from Russian interference. So, just because Bernie gave some alibi justifying his latest pro-Russian vote, does not mean the issue is resolved.

https://www.vpr.org/post/how-russian-social-media-effort-boosted-bernie#stream/0

The 37-page indictment handed down last month includes dozens of allegations that Russians stole Americans' identities and created fake Facebook and Twitter accounts that worked as internet trolls designed to sow discord in the campaign.

These fake groups even staged political rallies, including one that featured an actress playing Hillary Clinton in a cage.

And part of the effort was designed to assist Sanders, the special counsel said.

The defendants "engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump."




If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

elleng

(131,240 posts)
25. YES!
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 07:16 PM
Jan 2020

SHOULD have been 'removed,' imo.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TomCADem

(17,390 posts)
43. Bernie Is The Only Person To Vote Against Magnitsky Act and Russian Sanctions
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 08:37 PM
Jan 2020

This is pretty incredible that among 100 Senators, Bernie happens to side with Putin.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
69. Instead of denial, you should read up on Sanders' Russia record.
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 09:44 PM
Jan 2020

He has a striking record of votes, skipping votes, and stated positions that benefit Russia while deviating 180 degrees from his Democratic colleagues every time and even with Republican senators a number of times. Voting record more pro-Russia than Putin's Republican Party, at least on those bills. And even McConnell is not calling for dismantling NATO while Europe is forced to arm against the threat of Russian invasions. Sanders is.

And I can tell you that not one of his reasons really held together to me (I've read them looking to understand) or people in general. The press should bring up the spotlight, pour some water in all of them and report on what they find.

And in the meantime, you probably should look into this yourself and learn what those who have know.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TomCADem

(17,390 posts)
56. Senate Democrats fail to stop Trump administration from lifting sanctions on firms linked to Putin
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 09:10 PM
Jan 2020

Does anyone call Bernie on his excuses and explanations? Okay, you give him a pass on the 2012 Magnistky Act. You give him a pass on his comments about making Russia part of NATO. You give him a pass on his vote against the 2017 Russian election sanctions. Then, what about him missing a vote to stop Trump administration from lifting sanctions on firms linked to Putin?

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/16/senate-democrats-vote-to-block-trump-from-lifting-russia-sanctions-fails.html

Senate Democrats on Wednesday came up short in a vote to stop the Trump administration from easing sanctions on companies linked to Oleg Deripaska, a Russian billionaire with ties to Russia’s president, Vladimir Putin.

A motion to push that resolution forward in the Republican-majority Senate, which required a 60-vote majority to pass, came up three votes shy in a proceeding that saw 11 GOP senators side with Democrats.

The only one to miss the vote was Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt. He was meeting with women who had accused his 2016 presidential campaign of sexual misconduct, his spokesman, Josh Miller-Lewis, told CNBC.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kurt V.

(5,624 posts)
58. you intentionally made a link between Russian sanctions and sanders vote.
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 09:17 PM
Jan 2020

Implying an asset. That's opinion. where is your proof?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TomCADem

(17,390 posts)
60. "Implying an asset" That Makes No Sense. These are Bernie's votes.
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 09:30 PM
Jan 2020

I am saying that Bernie consistently takes pro-Russian positions and that he has conspicuously voted against Russian sanctions or missed key votes sanctioning Russia. I just listing bills and votes, which are a matter of public record.

I also think that the explanations given for Bernie's votes are way too pat. For example, Russian election sanctions. Bernie is a senior Senator. He was directly involved in the 2016 elections. Bernie should have used his influence to modify the bill so that he could vote and protect the American people on a key issue, protecting the integrity of elections.

So, Bernie's excuse for voting against the sanction bill just does not hold water. How he managed to get on the wrong side of such a bill is just crazy. I linked the other story of Bernie missing the vote limiting Trump's ability to lift sanctions on certain Russian oligarchs.

What is up with that? There is nothing to imply. Bernie's actions and votes just need to be reviewed and discussed.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kurt V.

(5,624 posts)
63. do you think sanders is asset for russia? That's all I'm asking
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 09:36 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

NYMinute

(3,256 posts)
65. It is an age old phenomenon
Sun Jan 5, 2020, 09:39 PM
Jan 2020

You scratch my back ...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Democratic Primaries»Ironically, When Russia A...