Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumIronically, When Russia Assassinates People, Bernie Votes to Support Russia
It is nice to see Bernie take a strong stand along with other Democrats against Trump's efforts to provoke a war with Iran by assassinating a top Iran general. Indeed, the immediate result is to cause Iran to abandon the nuclear deal that Biden helped negotiate. Yet, for Bernie's supposed principles, it is odd that he was one of the few to vote to support Putin and his Russian Oligarchs by voting against the Magnitsky Act. This is entirely separate from his 2017 vote against Russian election sanctions.
https://www.npr.org/2017/07/28/539802914/businessman-paints-a-terrifying-and-complex-picture-of-putins-russia
He was denied access back into the country after an international trip, but Magnitsky wasn't so lucky. Browder told the senators the Russian lawyer was detained by the authorities, denied medical treatment for pancreatitis while he was jailed, and then allegedly beaten to death in 2009 while chained to a prison cell bed.
Putin has continuously denied the allegations regarding Magnitsky.
"Investigators concluded that there was no malicious intent, or criminal negligence in Magnitsky's death. It was just a tragedy," Putin said in 2013, in an interview with a Russian television station. "One might think no deaths occur in U.S. prisons."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
elleng
(131,240 posts)Repeal and Sergei Magnitsky Rule of Law Accountability Act of 2012, is a bipartisan bill passed by the U.S. Congress and signed into law by President Barack Obama in December 2012, intending to punish Russian officials responsible for the death of Russian tax accountant Sergei Magnitsky in a Moscow prison in 2009.
Since 2016 the bill, which applies globally, authorizes the US government to sanction those who it sees as human rights offenders, freeze their assets, and ban them from entering the U.S.'>>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitsky_Act
For information, IMPORTANT to note FACTS:
*Sanders was joined in voting nay by Carl Levin (D-MI), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), and Jack Reed (D-RI). . .
the Obama administration opposed the Magnitsky Act. The administration flip-flopped only after the sanctions were attached to a bill normalizing trade relations with Russia, hence the bills official name: The Russia and Moldova Jackson-Vanik Repeal and Sergei Magnitsky Rule of Law Accountability Act of 2012 (H.R. 6156). . .
Sanders voted for a second, more robust version of the Magnitsky Act in 2015. . .
Sanders supports imposing punitive sanctions targeting Putin and his oligarch cronies.'>>>
https://pplswar.wordpress.com/2018/07/19/why-did-bernie-sanders-vote-against-the-magnitsky-act/
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
vsrazdem
(2,177 posts)The fact that Bernie Sanders (I-VT) voted against the so-called Magnitsky Act of 2012 imposing targeted sanctions on Russian oligarchs to punish the Putin regime for human rights abuses is often cited as proof by liberal conspiracy theorists that Sanders was somehow culpable in the Kremlins targeted effort to damage the candidacy of Hillary Clinton as part of their broader attack on the 2016 U.S. election.
What liberal conspiracy theorists wont tell you is that Sanders was joined in voting nay by Carl Levin (D-MI), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), and Jack Reed (D-RI) none of whom stand accused by anyone of being Russian stooges.
What liberal conspiracy theorists wont tell you is that the Obama administration opposed the Magnitsky Act. The administration flip-flopped only after the sanctions were attached to a bill normalizing trade relations with Russia, hence the bills official name: The Russia and Moldova Jackson-Vanik Repeal and Sergei Magnitsky Rule of Law Accountability Act of 2012 (H.R. 6156).
What liberal conspiracy theorists wont tell you is that Sanders voted for a second, more robust version of the Magnitsky Act in 2015.
What liberal conspiracy theorists wont tell you is that Sanders supports imposing punitive sanctions targeting Putin and his oligarch cronies, supports the sprawling Russia counter-intelligence investigation of the 2016 election led by Special Counsel Robert Mueller, denounces Russian aggression and Putin on a fairly regular basis, and during the 2016 presidential campaign supported sending more U.S. troops to the North Atlantic Treaty Organizations (NATO) Eastern European members to deter Russia from attacking them the way it attacked Ukraine in 2014.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
elleng
(131,240 posts)We CAN'T let misleading 'memes' go un-answered.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)The Magnisky Act was passed in the Senate by a vote of 92-4, with 4 not voting. It passed in the House 365-43, with 25 not voting. Vote combined was 457 for, 47 against.
The Russia Sanctions bill passed in the Senate by a vote of 98-2. It passed in the House 419-3, with 11 not voting. Vote combined was 517 for, 3 against.
Only one Senator voted against both of these, Senator Sanders.
In January 2019 the Senate held a vote to reverse a decision by the Treasury Department to lift sanctions against Oleg Deripaska's companies. 99 Senators participated in the vote, only one did not - Senator Sanders.
Three separate votes on bills to sanction Russia - two Sanders "nay", one "not voting".
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
vsrazdem
(2,177 posts)Sanders missed the 2019 vote because he was in a meeting with people who had worked in his campaign & faced harassment. The logistics were already arranged. If he missed that meeting after arranging the meeting, the headline would be "Sanders doesn't care about Sexual Harassment". If he attended the meeting, the headline would be "Sanders missed Russia vote". He can't win either way.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)1. The reason for that meeting was that there was rampant sexual abuse and harassment in his campaign, as well as income inequality - men were getting paid MUCH more than women who were doing the same job.
2. The meeting took place over the course of 24+ hours. The vote on the floor of the Senate was a 30-minute vote.
3. The meeting took place only minutes from the Capitol.
4. Coincidentally, he left the Senate chamber as the vote was beginning and didn't return until after the vote closed. He was gone less than an hour.
Ninety-nine other Senators were able to participate in the vote for sanctions against Oleg Deripaska. Only one didn't.
As to your headline, he very easily could have addressed that meeting an hour before or an hour after the vote.
Finally, if there was more control over his campaign staffers the meeting never would have had to be held in the first place.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
vsrazdem
(2,177 posts)regarding sexual harrassment, don't remember which one, but I do know it was not nearly as covered as Bernie. Wonder why. These types of posts are not constructive and will do nothing but divide potential voters for the democratic ticket. I will vote for whoever the nominee is, but I fear the same will not be said if Bernie were to win the nomination, and save your breath telling me it won't happen. Nobody can predict who will win.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)....(not three years later) and that person was dismissed.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
vsrazdem
(2,177 posts)later), and so yes, he definitely needed to address it and did so.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)...to be a micro manager, with his hand in everything. Or was he?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
vsrazdem
(2,177 posts)would be difficult to know it's going on. Even people who are micromanagers, which I have never heard that Bernie was, are not mind readers. Unless they listen to a lot of gossip at a campaign headquarters, if it was even discussed prior to this, you would'nt know. But do go ahead and blame the candidate for someone else's inapprorpiate behavior. That seems par for the course.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)....in his 2018 Senate campaign.
https://theintercept.com/2019/01/10/bernie-sanders-campaign-sexual-harassment-sexism/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
vsrazdem
(2,177 posts)Maybe you should read you own links.
I told my story to bring attention to the sexist environment that is unfortunately endemic to most workspaces, including political campaigns. However, I was disheartened to discover that the takeaway by many pundits was not that sexism and harassment is pervasive, but that Sanders was somehow uniquely culpable. I was also struck by some of the messages and tweets calling into question the character of the women who spoke out.
As was the case throughout the 2016 campaign season, my personal experiences as a woman of color were sublimated to serve an establishment media narrative that pretends the progressive movement is all white, all male, and runs counter to the interests of women and people of color.
But my story should not be taken to confirm the Bernie bro mythology. It should be taken to confirm the pervasiveness of sexism in professional life and distill the hard truths that all campaigns should learn from.
Its not as if the Sanders campaign alone is nursing the last vestiges of sexism and sexual harassment in the political sphere. Both were reportedly features of Hillary Clintons 2008 presidential campaign. During her first run at the White House, Clintons campaign chose to retain a senior adviser who reportedly harassed a young woman repeatedly rather than fire him. And just last month, an aide for Sen. Kamala Harris, D-Calif., resigned after it was reported that he settled a sexual harassment lawsuit for $400,000.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)....was so he could address the issues in his 2016 campaign. That isn't a very good excuse since the meeting was conducted over a 24-hour period and the vote he skipped, which was to reimpose sanctions on Russian Oleg Deripaska, was only a 30-minute vote.
That's the subject of this discussion, his failure a number of times to vote against Russia or Russians.
The meeting, which you brought up not me, was just a distraction.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)response to allegations of widespread sexual harassment and gender-based pay discrimination?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)I understand this desire to try to justify or portray Bernie's vote as a one off. Of course, like Trump, Bernie has also long been a critic of NATO and had even proposed including Russian in NATO even though NATO was formed as a bulkwark against Russian aggression.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/11/19/sanders-wants-new-nato-with-russia
In a lengthy speech to a jam-packed house at Georgetown University this afternoon, the senator and presidential candidate called for the creation of a new multi-nation organization to fight global extremism.
We must create a new organization like NATO to confront the security threats of the 21st century -- an organization that emphasizes cooperation and collaboration to defeat the rise of violent extremism and, importantly, to address the root causes underlying these brutal acts, he said in the speech. We must work with our NATO partners, we must work to expand the coalition with Russia and we must work with members of the Arab League.
The senators campaign press secretary, Symone Sanders, confirmed after the speech that the candidate wants Russia and Arab League member nations to be part of the group. She referred to it as NATO 2.0.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
vsrazdem
(2,177 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)Thank you. The question is why even after he learned about such interference, Bernie did not vote for Russian election sanctions. If there was some element of that bill that he did not like, then as a senior senator, he should have worked it out so that he could stand with the American people.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,348 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)....any North Atlantic Treaty Organization when the country doesn't border on the North Atlantic Ocean or, for that matter, ANY ocean.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
vsrazdem
(2,177 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SCantiGOP
(13,874 posts)What good does this crap do anybody?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)This is Bernie's voting record. He can pontificate, but when it came down to it, Bernie voting with Putin and Russian Oligarchs. Likewise, when it came to protecting out election system from Russian interference, Bernie sided with Putin and against the integrity of U.S. elections, which is made even worse because Russian interference helped him.
You can say Fake News all you want, but his votes are a matter of public record.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)Democrats are better than this.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)Who have actively pushed Trump/Russian talking points. For example, Briahna Joy Gray is Bernie's current and former campaign secretary:
Link to tweet
?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E780590640438603777&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2F%3Fcom%3Dview_post%26forum%3D1287%26pid%3D386015
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)Just stop
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)Sunlight is the best disinfectant. I submit that the reason why cites to Bernie's votes and the statements of Bernie's campaign are divisive would because Bernie himself tries to create division. I am simply saying that we need to acknowledge that Bernie himself is often the source of the division. Bernie has long elevated himself by trashing the Democratic party:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/11/bernie-sanders-lambasts-absolute-failure-of-democratic-partys-strategy
Speaking to a crowd of 4,000 activists, Sanders hailed the enormous progress in advancing the progressive agenda, saying the increasing House and Senate support for a $15 minimum wage and the opposition to the Trans-Pacific Partnership showed the success of the movement.
But the Vermont senator said that establishment Democrats were standing in the way of further progress.
The current model and the current strategy of the Democratic party is an absolute failure, Sanders said.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Aussie105
(5,458 posts)There.
Fixed the thread title.
Distraction type threads like this are not needed. Go away!
No need to thank me.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
elleng
(131,240 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Voltaire2
(13,231 posts)The Obama administration opposed the original 2012 Magnitsky act until it was modified to include trade normalization with Russia. Sanders opposed the normalization and voted against the bill.
He voted for the 2015 version. That one was stronger than the 2012 version and was not loaded with other issues.
Sanders voted against the 2017 version as it included Trumps new sanctions against Iran, in violation of the nuclear accord.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Voltaire2
(13,231 posts)We have an actual foreign asset in the White House. None of our candidates are supporting fascists.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
elleng
(131,240 posts)'Ironically, When Russia Assassinates People, Bernie Votes to Support Russia,' and expect it to pass, unexamined.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Voltaire2
(13,231 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Autumn
(45,120 posts)It's disgraceful.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)It is amazing how Bernie always seems to have a handy excuse to avoid voting against Russian oligarchs.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/16/senate-democrats-vote-to-block-trump-from-lifting-russia-sanctions-fails.html
A motion to push that resolution forward in the Republican-majority Senate, which required a 60-vote majority to pass, came up three votes shy in a proceeding that saw 11 GOP senators side with Democrats.
The only one to miss the vote was Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt. He was meeting with women who had accused his 2016 presidential campaign of sexual misconduct, his spokesman, Josh Miller-Lewis, told CNBC.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Carl Levin (D-MI), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), and Jack Reed (D-RI)
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
But it's funny because "Bernie's not a Democrat" is a constant refrain, and I'm sure the OP wouldn't have meant to say that he is.
But they did.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
elleng
(131,240 posts)never have, won't start now.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)....only one name would be inside both intersecting circles.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)I can give you an explanation of Euler diagrams too if you want.
Here's an example. Substitute "Multiples of 3" with "Magnisky" and "Multiples of 5" with "Russia Sanctions" and you've got it:
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,120 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
elleng
(131,240 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Autumn
(45,120 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
elleng
(131,240 posts)I wouldn't. I prefer FACTS.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Autumn
(45,120 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)...against the Magnitsky Act and Russian Election sanctions. Thank you.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,120 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)Bernie's Stated Reason Does Not Hold Water when considered with his vote against Russian election sanctions coupled with his long standing hostility towards U.S. involvement with NATO. Of course, there is the fact that Bernie directly benefitted from Russian interference. So, just because Bernie gave some alibi justifying his latest pro-Russian vote, does not mean the issue is resolved.
https://www.vpr.org/post/how-russian-social-media-effort-boosted-bernie#stream/0
These fake groups even staged political rallies, including one that featured an actress playing Hillary Clinton in a cage.
And part of the effort was designed to assist Sanders, the special counsel said.
The defendants "engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jalan48
(13,905 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SHOULD have been 'removed,' imo.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)This is pretty incredible that among 100 Senators, Bernie happens to side with Putin.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)He has a striking record of votes, skipping votes, and stated positions that benefit Russia while deviating 180 degrees from his Democratic colleagues every time and even with Republican senators a number of times. Voting record more pro-Russia than Putin's Republican Party, at least on those bills. And even McConnell is not calling for dismantling NATO while Europe is forced to arm against the threat of Russian invasions. Sanders is.
And I can tell you that not one of his reasons really held together to me (I've read them looking to understand) or people in general. The press should bring up the spotlight, pour some water in all of them and report on what they find.
And in the meantime, you probably should look into this yourself and learn what those who have know.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)Does anyone call Bernie on his excuses and explanations? Okay, you give him a pass on the 2012 Magnistky Act. You give him a pass on his comments about making Russia part of NATO. You give him a pass on his vote against the 2017 Russian election sanctions. Then, what about him missing a vote to stop Trump administration from lifting sanctions on firms linked to Putin?
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/16/senate-democrats-vote-to-block-trump-from-lifting-russia-sanctions-fails.html
A motion to push that resolution forward in the Republican-majority Senate, which required a 60-vote majority to pass, came up three votes shy in a proceeding that saw 11 GOP senators side with Democrats.
The only one to miss the vote was Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt. He was meeting with women who had accused his 2016 presidential campaign of sexual misconduct, his spokesman, Josh Miller-Lewis, told CNBC.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)Implying an asset. That's opinion. where is your proof?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)I am saying that Bernie consistently takes pro-Russian positions and that he has conspicuously voted against Russian sanctions or missed key votes sanctioning Russia. I just listing bills and votes, which are a matter of public record.
I also think that the explanations given for Bernie's votes are way too pat. For example, Russian election sanctions. Bernie is a senior Senator. He was directly involved in the 2016 elections. Bernie should have used his influence to modify the bill so that he could vote and protect the American people on a key issue, protecting the integrity of elections.
So, Bernie's excuse for voting against the sanction bill just does not hold water. How he managed to get on the wrong side of such a bill is just crazy. I linked the other story of Bernie missing the vote limiting Trump's ability to lift sanctions on certain Russian oligarchs.
What is up with that? There is nothing to imply. Bernie's actions and votes just need to be reviewed and discussed.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)You scratch my back ...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden