My congressman told me about the bankruptcy scam bill.

articulating a platform with such research and detail behind it? Is there any downside to this woman's hard work?

I've always liked her gumption and passion, but now I'm getting kind of floored by how hard she works.

Imagine, in contrast, Trump cracking open a book instead of scratching his ass on the golf courses.

no big ego. She has a nurturing quality and she is analytical, a BRAINIAC.

Everything Trump is not.

She has EARNED my vote. I FEEL her love for this country.

She has brains, compassion, competence, and a tireless work ethic.

and leave only one path...you would most certainly lose your cars and your house under this plan in many cases...which doesn't happen under the current plan despite all the stuff written about it... And it does nothing for student loans. This isn't going to make anyone support her.

This is a bad plan and would hurt folks...one path? Relinquish property...the current laws allow for keeping property in many if not most cases...nope. It is a bad plan. And it doesn't have enough detail either. You can be as snide as you choose. I think it is a bad plan and will not gain her votes which is fine with me since I support another candidate. Contrast it with the current law and see if you really think it is a good plan...oh and states also have laws in place too regarding bankruptcy...how would she address this fact?

Where am I being snide? You make the claim in your first post the bill is bad and that is analysis? No.

Bankruptcy law is complicated, I don't care who you helped through it, you explained nothing why her changes would hurt anyone.

Do you realize that even Biden has stated that students not able to discharge student debt was a grave error?

all bankruptcy would never work. The biggest problem is that property that is under the current law exempt would not be if you wanted a simple to chapter 7 bankruptcy.

"In a Chapter 7 personal bankruptcy, you may have to sell off your stuff to pay what you can to your creditors (there are various rules about what kind of stuff you do and don’t need to sell), but when your assets are handed over to your creditors, you are free and clear. A Chapter 13 personal bankruptcy, by contrast, involves putting you on a payment plan in which some of your future income goes to your creditors."

Number one, people don't sell their stuff that is just not true unless you are super rich and under her plan you probably would not be able to file bankruptcy. Furniture and personal possessions are basically worthless unless you have high dollar art or jewelry...and handing assets over to your creditors...um no....bad, bad idea... It would make it worse for people. Also in chapter 11 and 13, people often pay pennies on the dollar.Under her plan, that would not be the case. So this would be bad for the average person too. Forcing mortgage companies to redo mortgages for folks in bankruptcy would lead to mortgages only for those with the best credit and dry up mortgage money. Also, her plan does not address the loophole for millionaires where they would not have to sacrifice any assets.

Her plan shows a lack of understanding of the current bankruptcy rules in place. And no mention of student loans either which would help millions. I am thinking she believes the nonsense about the reformation of bankruptcy which hurt kids with student debt worse than anyone...and Biden wants to change that by the way.

As for average middle class people, you qualify for either Chapter 7 or Chapter 11/13, you keep your cars and your house (s). My sister had a small house her college student lived in..she kept it and she kept her residence,you take a course before the bankruptcy and again after you file...done, It is cheap and easy. You either qualify for a 7 or an 11...but in 11, few people pay back the entire amount owed. Warren's plan strikes me as punitive and a one size fits all sort of thing ...more so than the current law. Now this is just stuff I noticed right away...I am sure there are other problems ...not much detail here either...but there is enough in the outline of the plan to see that it is not a good plan...pie in the sky sort of plan...won't work well in the real world and will hurt average people. And her plan relies on pro-debtor reforms to make this plan really good or similar to the one before the reform package...and I don't think she will get all those reforms...so we are left with an imperfect bankruptcy solution which does more harm than good.

In 2005, Congress passed a law changing the bankruptcy rules. There were a number of different changes to the code, but for our purposes, the relevant changes* are these:

It became more difficult to do rapid serial filings (only once every 10 years allowed)
Debtors were required to enter debt counseling before they filed and after they filed
Attorneys had to sign off on the debtor's claims
Debtors had to provide pay stubs and tax returns
Debtors whose income, after allowable expenses, was higher than the median for their area, had to file Chapter 13 instead of Chapter This means they'd be forced into a five-year repayment plan. (but were often not required to pay the entire amount)
Student loans became very difficult to discharge through bankruptcy. (This is the one I want fixed.)

I am telling you no one would ever get a loan without perfect credit...not ever. if banks are forced to change mortgage terms in a bankruptcy...another of her ideas.

( excerpt)

Under current bankruptcy law the reverse is true. The support creditor is often forced to take a back seat to ordinary commercial creditors when a support arrearage payment is sought in a bankruptcy case.

Under current bankruptcy law, when a debtor files for protection under Chapter 12 or 13, the collection of even
ongoing support is stayed. The economic detriment to the family which is not receiving public assistance can be devastating.

This amendment, therefore, not only ensures that the payment of support by wage earners will not be interrupted, but
it will also avoid the need to entangle the debtor's family in the bankruptcy process.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-109shrg42675/html/CHRG-109shrg42675.htm

Last edited Tue Jan 7, 2020, 07:05 PM - Edit history (1)

creditors rarely even respond or show up...they mostly agree to what the trustee says. As for support ..you mean child support...that is a separate issue. The only way out of that is to take it out of bankruptcy and it is not a reason to make all bankruptcy filers lose all their assets...Warren's bankruptcy plan is more punitive then the one we currently have.

Mirroring a bipartisan bill Warren introduced last May, her plan makes student loans dischargeable. Warren also has a student debt forgiveness plan, but this mops up leftover debt for those who cannot pay.

More important, the plan lets borrowers modify primary residence mortgages in bankruptcy, a concept known as “cram-down” that the Obama-Biden administration (to borrow Biden’s common terminology) openly fought against after promising to enact it. This would have significantly mitigated the foreclosure crisis, giving borrowers a fair shot at a clean slate and equitably sharing the losses from the collapse.

Other provisions include a federal homestead exemption that protects some home equity in bankruptcy; a pre-packaged mortgage bankruptcy option to cut through the tangle of claims in securitized loans; the repeal of a 2005 rider forcing debtors to pay the full amount of their initial car loan to retain their automobiles, regardless of the current blue book value; and proposals to ensure racial and gender equity in bankruptcy.

Finally, though the bankruptcy bill is known for its crackdowns on poor and middle-class bankruptcy filers, it also widened or kept open loopholes that enabled the rich to abuse the system. This is maybe the most galling thing about that bill; Biden and his allies framed it as a way to reduce overuse of bankruptcy, while keeping in the parts for the least deserving to do exactly that.

https://prospect.org/politics/warren-latest-plan-signals-time-talk-joe-biden-record/

stand alone bill that can be changed way easier than reforming bankruptcy again.

bankruptcies easily...they don't sell their stuff and they keep their property including houses and cars...People would fare far worse under Warren's plan than the current plan...she is is giving us her version of bankruptcy reform which seeks to discourage bankruptcies as people really will lose everything...I think it is more punitive than the what we have now. And no matter what stand alone bill she puts out to 'make' it a better bill like the student debt plan, there is no guarantee such laws will pass or won't be repealed while leaving an imperfect punitive bankruptcy law in place. It is a bad plan or perhaps not well thought out. It is kind of Ivory tower...sounds good hypothetically but won't work in when implemented in the real world.

I'll leave my preferred candidate out of it entirely and that still leaves this mess front and center. The problems with our current bankruptcy laws is that they do not serve the interests of our average citizen.


( 2005 )

No longer. At the behest of banks and credit-card companies, Congress has passed and the president has just signed new legislation making it much harder for many Americans to start over.

Meanwhile, many of America's corporations are using corporate bankruptcy to stay in business while being relieved from all sorts of contractual obligations. Several major airlines, for example, are in bankruptcy, but they continue to fly. And bankruptcy judges have ruled that these and several other bankrupt companies no longer have to pay the health or pension benefits of retirees, which they once agreed to, or that they're released from paying their employees the wages they once promised.

So even as filing for personal bankruptcy becomes more difficult, corporate bankruptcy increasingly offers corporations a way to unburden their obligations. This, while more and more Americans are being forced into personal bankruptcy because they're losing the jobs or wages or health insurance they were counting on. According to recent estimates, usually it's these sorts of unexpected events concerning jobs or health that force people into bankruptcy.

https://prospect.org/article/two-faces-bankruptcy/

(2018 )

Look at bankruptcy laws that enable someone like Donald Trump to declare bankruptcy repeatedly, without any consequence for his own fortune, and yet prohibit graduates, who are unable to meet their student debt payments, from using bankruptcy to shelter their assets temporarily while they rearrange and reorganize their debts. Or homeowners who got caught in the downdraft of the Great Recession–bankruptcy laws that prohibit them from reorganizing their mortgage debts.

I could go through the entire system. Most people today do feel that the game is rigged against them, and they have a rational basis in that view.

https://daily.jstor.org/robert-reich-interview/

The counseling plan isn't bad...sis actually implemented some of the ideas...but people still get bankruptcies easily...and sis makes about 150,000 and went through chapter 7...under Warren's plan she loses all assets...it is not helpful. The only reason I would roll it back is student debt because it is not hurting anyone that I can see now.

begin with...the compromise took out the most punitive aspects...and there is massive state laws on this too...that is an issue...some states punish their own constituents.

loopholes that aren't going away with Warren's plan...she may have something planned but her plan hurts the poor and the middle class...it just does.

bankruptcy law. You versus Warren.

Senator Kennedy. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

It really is a great pleasure for me to introduce Elizabeth Warren, who serves as the Leo Gottlieb Professor of Law on the faculty of Harvard Law School and really is one of our Nation's leading experts on bankruptcy law.

She is often cited for her studies on the economic squeeze on middle-class families, as well as the economics of debt,
health care finance and other economic stresses. She also works on policy issues relevant to corporate reorganization and sovereign insolvency.

The National Law Journal has named Professor Warren one of the 50 most influential women lawyers
in America, and her students at Harvard have awarded her the Sachs and Freund Award for teaching excellence.
So we look forward to Professor Warren sharing her expertise with us. We thank her very much for being with us
today. https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-109shrg42675/html/CHRG-109shrg42675.htm

thing but it is not. People were hysterical after it passed but any who have experience with it will tell you...it works pretty well Her plan whatever her intentions is not a good plan and hurts the people she seeks to help. As for Trump, the bankruptcy law isn't how he manages his bankruptcies.

I do believe you are sincere that you know more about bankruptcy law than she does. Good luck.

passed first of all...and I am familiar with how it works in the real world...Bankruptcies are no more difficult to get then they ever were. And I read the details available with Warren's plan...first of all ...no stand alone laws...put whatever mitigating stuff you want in the bill itself. Secondly, her plan is more punitive as you lose your assets in chapter 7 under her plan. That is not the case with the current law. Also, she makes it so that a mortgage lender will be forced to change mortgages in bankruptcy...you should realize mortgage money will dry up...and only those with stellar credit will be able to get the few still available.

The I am just a little person with not enough knowledge to understand the great Warren plan is kind of insulting but...you have not answered even one criticism I made of this plan...I am an educated woman...worked in business/computers for years and before that I taught calculus and Physical Chemistry. I can understand this plan...and I am telling you, it does not help the little guy or fix what is wrong with the bankruptcy law. If you can't explain a plan and show why it works and is better in the real world than you need to rethink it. You are right about my sincerity...I am not a Warren supporter but I don't dislike her...this plan is going to hurt her when an expert takes the time to analyze it...if they haven't already. Good Luck.

You believe you have demonstrated that strength in argument, you have not. You diverted attention out of the gate by insisting her plan will hurt while simultaneously stating there were not enough details. Your argument to each link you were given is to say, she won't be helping anyone with that. No reasoning, just a no, that won't work, I should believe you. Reich as well as Warren do not understand the value of our bankruptcy laws, but you do? He is just another misguided fool who has no idea how Trump gets away with fraud? But you do.

I wish you well, and your candidate.

hurt the middle class and the poor...I don't see how any of it can be mitigated really but I await details so time will tell. Bankruptcy laws at the moment do not hurt those seeking bankruptcy protection ....that much I know from experience. What I read of Warren's plan is worse than what we have. The only thing I would like to see is to add student debt to bankruptcy...and that is not in the plan...a stand alone bill is insufficient because it is too easy to get rid of...you have to reform the entire bankruptcy law if it is in the law itself.

As for Trump, he hides his assets and uses corporate bankruptcy...This is a pretty good graphic. Also I went to High School in Connecticut...my Dad had friends that were bankrupted by Trump...he is and always was scum...the laws that allow him cheat and lie and basically steal...need to change.

change under Warren's plan.

‘Don’t threaten me’: Court records show Elizabeth Warren turned down lucrative job after hearing from consumer group

Legal papers show that years before Sen. Elizabeth Warren gained a national reputation as a zealous consumer advocate, a reputation that’s now at the center of her bid for the White House, she defended those principles behind closed doors in the face of profitable incentives to look the other way.
The 2006 case provides a more straightforward example of Warren in action than other past legal work, because the court records contain documentation of Warren’s thought process as she decided whether to take the job.

GP: Presidential candidate Elizabeth Warren addresses her...
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/16/elizabeth-warren-turned-down-lucrative-job-over-advocacy-group-concerns.

can become so financially damaged, that within their life spans, there will never be recovery. No amount of love or care will ease the continuing burden on future generations more as the cleaning up of the corruption embedded in those entities courtesy of every team of wrong-headed GOP leadership in all three of our branches of government.

Many of the "Greatest Generation" are still lingering. As a mid-range Boomer, I can see how government and the scams of corporate lobbyists for big businesses came together to rape, loot, and pillage the middle classes of Boomers, Gen X, Millennials, and close the door permanently to the least among us now and in generations yet to come. Without change, financial instability in America is inevitable; around the world, the ticking time bomb of climate change will contribute heavily to this instability and insecurity if countries, like ours, cannot work together to find solutions in many areas of how we live and how we conserve/preserve the resources we take from the earth.

Who did the GOP believe to be these people? Folks who worked hard to be financially "comfortable" but still held back the elite richer from having more than they would ever need through many luxurious lifespans and wantonness; therefore, they (that cabal of vipers) targeted those they wished to have far less or those subject to life's misfortunes that would necessarily be submissive to their non-compassionate white patriarchal privileged rules: women, PoC, immigrants yearning to breathe free, the ill and disabled, both mentally and physically, the unemployed, the aged, who they thought of as the "cannon fodder" in our military services, and the groups that banned together to hold those at the top accountable for better workplaces, and many who made minor "criminal" mistakes while those with enough money escaped the lifetime imprisonment they so richly deserved and to whom the cabal would welcome back to well-paid employment for a plea or a corporate fine, unaccountable personally, to their cabal of chaos.

Now they've done it - they've elected a vile destroyer of our nation! He and others must be removed from office!

IMHO, Elizabeth Warren is best suited to take on our mission of compassionate hope for our country's security and stability. From among all the diverse and smart primary Democratic candidates, and with what could be my last vote under my personal Plan B, as one who has seen too many GOP strategists bamboozle mesmerize, and otherwise harm the fabric of our country, I hope she goes the distance!

Her plans are thorough, researched, and positive.

HOWEVER, she cannot enact them by herself, either as a Senator, or as President. All her plans have to originate and be passed out by Congressional Committees, discussed, amended, voted on with majority vote in both houses.

The majority of average people with minimum understanding of how laws get passed do not understand this. Yes, the President has the bully pulpit, and a mandate from the election, but without Congress he or she can do little but submit ideas and plans to the country, work hard for them by trying to influence the Congress.

If those plans and bills are never passed, she or he is blamed for making unfulfilled promises, whether or not Congress came up with bills or ignored them.

I think much more emphasis in our elections should be on the Representatives and Senators who actually enact the laws.

Most people on this website understand all of this, but the average voter doesn't necessarily; therefore more intangible qualities such as experience, strength of character, compassion, basic intelligence, inclusiveness, honesty, positivity, are some of the things that I look for in a Presidential candidate and recommend to others to look for.

As Coco points out, bankruptcy expert Elizabeth Warren said the new law would destroy the consumer bankruptcy system. It greatly restricted access to Chapter 7 bankruptcies (which apply all consumer funds, ex retirement accounts, to existing debts and wipes out the balance) and also made certain types of debt non-dischargeable, most important, student loans (note the change applied to private student loans). It also created hurdles to filing bankruptcy by making the process more costly: higher court charges and attorney fees, as well as requiring useless but borrower-paid credit counseling. As Jialan Wang noted in VoxEU, these changes increased the cost of filing for bankruptcy by 60%. She and her co-authors of a NBER paper found that this had the intended effect of inhibiting families from filing for bankruptcy, and getting an extra chunk of cash (they looked at tax rebates) led to an uptick in bankruptcy filings. She noted:

Liquidity-constrained households are likely to have the most to gain from bankruptcy, yet they are the ones screened out by high fees. Moreover, the increased costs do little to mitigate strategic behaviour such as OJ Simpson’s notorious purchase of an expensive home in Florida to exploit that state’s generous bankruptcy provisions.

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/05/the-bankruptcy-reforms-of-2005-creation-of-a-new-debtors-prison.html