17 years ago...hahah...good luck.

So that is utter nonsense.

... and we were attacked in the same sentence.

WTELF

time I didn't believe most words coming out of GOP pols mouth, but I didn't think they would dare to lie about this, and it went to the UN...and the papers like New York Times acted like it was true also. I thought Saddam was a murderous scum bucket who tortured people in horrible ways.... so yeah I thought there were weapons; I knew he had used such weapons before and maybe some of our elected thought this too and voted for the war for that reason. And if you are telling me our Democrats knew the truth that Bush was lying and voted for the war...I would have to call you out on that....no way and no how. Bush lied. Hindsight is 2020. It was and will always be Bush's war. But it has lately in some quarters become a way to attack Democrats that some don't like...disgusting IMHO. I have no idea why some think it is a good idea to blame Democrats for the war in Iraq - Democrats who were deceived by Bush and this shifts responsibility for the war from Bush to Democrats. Bush is and was responsible for his own stupid war...no Democrat is responsible period and saying otherwise helps only Republicans and hurts all Democrats.

Even after Colin Powell's bullshit testimony, and you still bought it???

Hindsight isn't 20/20. DU put out a statement against the Eye-Rack war, and nearly every member supported it.

You and the rest were suckers. Accept the truth and don't smear the rest of us.

What it was about was the neocon plan to wipe the slate clean, to use the opportunity presented by the 9-11 attack to destroy all of the regimes in the region that were hostile toward US domination. Syria, Libya, Iran and Iraq were all on the list. It was an opportunity they had been waiting for since the collapse of the Soviet Union, and they were not going to let it pass.

Kerry and Biden either knew and approved of this or they were incomprehensibly naive.

and an excuse...but I didn't know it at the time...I doubt I was alone.

Biden can't seem to get to that point.

"We had been attacked"??? by whom? the Iraqis? You are kidding, right? Not the Saudis, but the Iraqis were in those airplanes that crushed against the towers, those that exploded and the gasoline was not enough to bring down the towers but nonetheless the towers tumbled down as if they had been brought down by controlled demolition, is that the attack you are talking about where no Iraqis were involved, only Saudis, but that we did not go against Saudi Arabia because God forbid we would go against a very rich country that has so much oil and spends so much money in the USA? Is that what you are talking about?

Those who supported the Iraqi invasion then definitely made a mistake, I hope they don't make more mistakes.

Good luck sweeping it under the rug.

It was limited to support. No more. No invasion and no bombing.

war. Didn't Sanders apologize for both votes? I have to wonder about his judgement in these matters.

The two wars, Katrina ...the economy...all disastrous thanks to Bush.

Last edited Sun Jan 12, 2020, 11:32 PM - Edit history (1)

He should be saying that he wasn't always against it.

How can you say you were always against it when you voted to support it? Just own it, be honest about it.

I made a mistake...How difficult is that? And better "I made a mistake then, I have learned from it and it is a mistake that I would never make again." How difficult is that? But instead he insists in saying that he was against it?

Don't people know there are videos, that there are records? What is wrong with people? A video doesn't lie...yes, there are doctored videos, but I am referring at the many non-doctored videos out there.

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but was personally opposed...who the hell knows? And frankly I don't give a damn. It was 17 years ago. We have had two candidates who voted for the war run since then...this is just sour grapes...and it won't work.

use WMD's and it was being said he was getting more...and it was even said that he was somehow responsible for 9-11...easy to say it isn't true now 17 hears later...you want to take away Bush's sins of lying and tell me that Democrats were on league with Bush, no I don't believe you and never will. It was Bush's war and not any Democrats fault.

That thinking was racist then and it's racist now.

he didn't say it...Iran was invaded to protect the homeland from WMD's according to Bush (obviously not true)..it was Al quada who was blamed back then. I think now and for a while is was pay back for Iraq's attempt on papa Bush's life...and the Cheney influenced belief that we should have invaded Iraq during desert storm...whatever obviously it was a mistakes. Now I didn't think Iraq was responsible for 2001 but...the WMD if they existed were a threat to us...the way I saw it and Saddam was so evil...that was my thinking at the time. of course now we know there were no WMD's. Now I have not doubt some of the great minds here knew the truth all along (no sarcasm smart folks here) I wouldn't know, I wasn't here. I take your word for it, but plenty of folks elsewhere didn't know the truth. I lived in Georgia then. We lost Max Cleland because of this.

WE here at DU, we were paying extremely close attention. We know what the arguments then were, and we knew it to be bullshit then and later. That is the point you seem to be missing.

that early...Bush lied...it is is Bush's war...don't try to blame Democrats for Bush's lies...what you want me to believe Bush and Biden( or Harry Reid...he voted for it too)were somehow in league with the GOP... lying to the American people. Well I don't. It was and will always be Bush's war. I was very surprised that there were no WMD's there. And I find it distasteful that some try to blame Democrats for political reasons-not calling you out just speaking generally.

You accuse anyone who (quite correctly) holds Biden and the other democrats responsible for their votes as excusing Bush of responsibility for the Iraq war, and no one is doing that. Everyone correctly places blame on Bush and the neocons, but Congress and specifically the Democrats in Congress had a responsibility to stand against it when they KNEW it was bullshit, and they did not. The Democrats who were our leaders in Congress didn't lead, they didn't stand for what was right and for our best interests in both the short and long term as a nation. I was so disappointed in all of them, and I still am. I'm sure that I'm not the only DU'er who feels that way.

Bush lied us into war...so I don't doubt some who were elected may have been fooled too...disagree if you want but that is what I think. It was 17 years ago...so honestly it doesn't matter to me at this point. Except I am sick of Democrats being blamed for Republican actions...a general comment and not directed at you. I would also add that your 'quite correctly' is your opinion and others including me may not agree.

lied to and fooled...others were too...but you know what at the end of the day it doesn't matter. It was `17 years ago...and I don't and will never blame Democrats...it was Bush's war....not a Democratic war...we didn't do it period. Another election have consequences moment. One of the great ironies if we all had voted for Gore, there would have been no war. When will we learn? Vote blue no matter who.

Plus Germany, France and even Russia. It was beyond obvious the war was political. Only low information voters and right wingers were in support. Iraq had ZERO to do with 911 attacks. But Biden’s vote was profoundly influential so was Clinton’s. They could have rejected it strongly turning dems into unified coalition against war. Thousands died for nothing, absolutely nothing. And we are still paying for it and will continue so for a long time.
Ask yourself, if Biden would be senator right now, would he vote for the war with iran if there was such vote? I don’t know the answer, unfortunately. That single most important career defining vote, directly led to deaths of Americans. Do not blame Bush, he was not a senator, did not vote.

unprecedented mid term loss...the party in power rarely wins midterms they did this time.

LA Times
"Do you support or oppose the Bush Administration's decision to take military action against Iraq at this time?"
Apr. 2-3, 2003
Support: 77%
Oppose: 21%
Don’t Know: 2%

And Bush won reelection in 04 and picked up some seats as well. Easy now to say everyone was against the war... and people here are more politically aware so I have no doubt many hell most of them were against the war from the beginning but plenty of ordinary folks believed Bush's lies...embarrassed to admit I did. But the point is Bush lied us into war...it is not any Democrats fault period. Let Bush assume the responsibility...he alone deserves it.

Almost the entire forum was against Bush's bullshit war from the start. Don't project the fact that Dumbya fooled you on the rest of us, and you have no right to act cavalier about it after the fact.

site intimidating. I am speaking for myself and others that I know... if you look at the polls at the time, he fooled lots of people...maybe not here. You were here, I was not. I am not projecting anything...I will say it again. We should not give Bush a pass by blaming Democrat elected who were also lied to...and if you are saying that Biden or any other Democrat was in league with Bush to lie us into war... I don't believe it period. And I will not give Bush a pass...he lied his way into a war...Bush's war...not Biden's war or Harry Reid's war...Bush's war. Bush alone is responsible. WE should not allow Democrats to be blamed.

The party will look more favorably on this about face than it would on any ridiculous insistence on saying it was the right vote.

his foreign policy experience. Talk to them.

has more experience.

True that.

And his judgement to support that invasion was wrong, I believe he would benefit more by admitting it, and admitting he was wrong then and that he would not do the same if he becomes president. Lack of good judgement is nothing to brag about.

war? Why because it is politically convenient I guess...don't care won't affect me or other Biden supporters who are not supporting Warren or Sanders...I guess it is all you got. I won't let Bush off the hook like you guys.

vote to support the invasion that has brought so much misery to the area and has caused so much chaos in the World. Biden should have known that was a wrong decision, being so close to the politics he should have known republicans were telling lies, being in politics for so long he should know that republicans only tell lies. According to Rick Wilson, republicans learned that they don't have to tell people who they are, in other words, they lie, and Biden should have known that, its time he admits he was wrong.

Biden still thinks he can negotiate with republicans, its fantasy. Unless you have a big check account and are willing to contribute to the republican thugs campaigns, no one from the Democratic party can negotiate with them, and pretending he can, and he has not been able to do it during his career, is not constructive.

Easy to say "lets move on", I am sure many people were happy when Obama said "lets move forward" and did not investigate the Bush administration, I was not happy, I am still not happy about it. Yes, water under the bridge, but it is something that needs to be talked about to make sure it doesn't happen again. Imagine if the next Democratic president said the same about the gang of crooks in the trump administration, in the trump family...

to tell them Hans Blix and the UN weapons inspectors would be kicked out of Iraq before their mission was completed. Unfortunately, Joe suffered from the same disadvantage those many years passed.

Time to move on.

WaPo has a fairly inclusive article that lays out the land ..
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/09/09/bidens-claim-that-he-opposed-iraq-war-moment-it-started/

The party will look more favorably on this about face than it would on any ridiculous insistence on saying it was the right vote.

many years ago and it was Bush who lied and pushed the policy...your attempt to blame Biden which exonerates Bush won't work.

n/t

I don't really get that you don't see that. Bush did it. And he lied. But I am glad that was not your intention.

which was far more nuanced and contained a lot more detail of the reasons.

He was also privy to information as a chairman of senate committees that ordinary people didn't have.

However, I'll give Bernie this -- his hindsight is absolutely perfect !!! He may even predict the stock market crashes of 1929, 1987 and 2008 and give exact numbers back then. Perhaps that will be the next tweet.

It is like a main-in refund ... nefarious because many don't send it in, many miss the deadline, many don't bother to follow up - in the end, only 10% of the people actually collect.

Sadly, that sets the wrong tone for the entire campaign.

When we were gearing up for war in 2003, I contacted my then congressman, Adam Smith, of WA State. He wound up calling me after a late night session of Congress, and we discussed going to war. I told him that he had better make war a last resort and that they had better have evidence of the need for us to go into Iraq. At that time, my Marine son was within sight distance of Iraq in Kuwait. My father who was alive at that time, was a retired Marine colonel, who had served 31 years in the Corps and was a veteran of WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. At the time, he was against going to war with Iraq but when Colin Powell came out and spoke to the nation, he believed that Gen. Powell would not betray the troops and put them in harm's way unless there was evidence.

That is what I believe Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, Adam Smith, my father, my son, and my husband and I had to trust that our intelligence and president would not betray our troops or put our country in jeopardy. Now we know we were lied to. I never trusted Bush or Cheney, but at the time I had to hope and believe that Powell was a decent man. Maybe he was used by Bush and Cheney, but I will never forgive him. It is easy to look back to 2003 from 2020 and try to condemn Biden for his vote. We didn't have all the information about the lies back then. I don't hold Biden's vote to go to war against him. I think he is the right person to lead our country out of the abyss that Trump has put us in.

I mean, we all knew well before the invasion that Bush was lying about the Al-Qaeda link. He also wouldn't listen to the inspectors, and wouldn't let them finish their jobs. Congress people really really should have known better. Congress has the blood of hundreds of thousands of civilians on their hands.

The most generous thing to be said about anyone who voted for the war is that they failed to do their due diligence over the most serious decision a government can make, leading to one of the most destructive decisions in recent U.S. history.

Though I don't think he did.

It's that this is one more thing Trump can attack Biden on.

long before “democratic socialism” was invented; Sanders was plain old fashioned socialist. But just like dems got scared by rw and rebranded liberal to progressive, socialism was rebranded. Both Biden and Sanders have tons of baggage and public record to attack on. Sanders fundamentally does not believe in market economy, not then, not now. This election won’t be about economy though.

How about his various votes on gun control or when he voted against the only immigration bill ever brought to congress. It seems to me this is far more important than a vote almost 20 years ago...where we were all lied to. Bush started the wars not Biden or Sander for that matters...both wars.

vetted. It is going to leave a mark.

...19 seconds that have debunked from here to Kingdom Come.

Anyone want to take a stab at context?

Those are Biden's real words and nothing can change that. The full video is there for anyone to see.

jr was NOT a bold leader. Far from it. I NEVER supported him. And, I NEVER supported that illegal war that killed almost a MILLION children, women and men.

This silly attack did not work against Clinton. Why does sanders think that it will work now? https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/01/08/hillary-clinton-voted-iraq-war-still-won-primary-can-joe-biden/

It has nothing to do with Sanders or his campaign.

Link to tweet

Okay.


And what does that article have to do with this one anyway? Besides nothing.

...references C-span)

which was from the Times. I responded to the wrong one. So sue me.